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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Very much looking forward to C7.5. The features on paper look like a great balance of workflow features and "goodies" that make for good marketing. Steinberg has to balance this out so they can stay in business. In my book, they made some great choices for C7.5. Hopefully the implementation will be very solid. The Track Versions feature alone is worth the upgrade price for me, personally. My workflow will be greatly improved. Well done, Steinberg!
by uarte
Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:06 pm
 
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

I'm actually surprised that Steinberg did as much as they did in the workflow enhancements. We could have nothing but some new synths but we also have a new take on instrument tracks, track versions, track visibility and transient tools that I honestly didn't expect until 8.0.


I agree completely. Steinberg put some killer features into 7.5 that could have easily waited for 8.0 if they wanted. Frankly, they just needed one or two more flagship features, another few mid-level features, and this could have easily been 8.0. To me, this is one of the best X.5 updates I've ever seen.
by uarte
Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:27 pm
 
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Re: THANK YOU STEINBERG!! Cubase 7 and Cubase 7.5 are amazin

I like Freddie, and I'm glad he's joined us from over in the Cakewalk forum. He's definitely made an upgrade from Sonar. :) We need someone here in this forum who uses different fonts and *all* the emoticons -- someone who is always jumping up and down like a happy teenager. Seriously. I mean it. This forum can get a bit glum sometimes, since most happy Cubase users are actually off making music, not hanging around here too often... and people like Freddie spice things up and bring some extra cheer.

Glad you're here, Freddie! Hope you enjoy Cubase as much as I have! (Well, judging by your forum posts, I'd say you already have!)

And yes, I agree with the sentiment of your OP. Cubase is amazing!
by uarte
Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:15 pm
 
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by uarte
Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:48 pm
 
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Re: PC to Mac migration

Good luck! I, for one, definitely enjoy using Macs more than Windows (and this, coming from a long-time Windows DAW user), but you'll have your share of bumps on the road! It's not a perfect world in Mac-land either. There are definitely some benefits to sticking with the Windows world, such as cost savings and generally better low-latency performance. Essentially, you will get more "bang for the buck" in Windows land, no question about it. However, my view is that current computers are so powerful that those issues are no longer primary decision points for me, and other things are more important to me now, such as overall workflow and the fact that almost all of my clients are Mac users, so it just makes more sense for me now. Session compatibility was "okay" before between Windows and Macs, but I've had a number of situations where having a Mac handy was just plain necessary, or at the very least, convenient. So it wasn't much of a leap to see if migrating all the way was possible.

The performance of the current generation of computers is so vastly beyond what it was only a few years ago, that the price/performance advantage of Windows is not the headline issue it used to be... on both of my Macs, I can get superb low latency for the situations I need it -- as good as I need it, and for the plugin and track load needed, just as good as my finely tuned 6-core Windows machine, so I'm fine with it. True, my Windows DAW could handle *more* plugins at that extreme low latency than my current Mac Pro, but I find I really don't need to "impress myself with benchmarks" -- at decent latencies I haven't had an issue yet in my many rounds of testing so far, so the performance hit of using a Mac is almost certainly not going to be a problem for me, personally. Worst case scenario, I can set up a VE Pro slave if I have to. I already have used VE Pro quite a bit in the past, so going back to it will not be a problem if I have to regularly.

So nowadays it really boils down to your personal preferences for your platform, and I'm happy so far with my switch to OSX. We'll see in a few months, though! :) I could end up hating it, and come screaming back to Windows! I will of course keep a couple of Windows machines just in case, but so far, so good.

Good luck with your switch!
by uarte
Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:54 am
 
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Re: PC to Mac migration

The performance of the current generation of computers is so vastly beyond what it was only a few years ago, that the price/performance advantage of Windows is not the headline issue it used to be...
Voice of sanity here. Well put too. (referring to the whole post)

Thank you, sir. And BTW, I used to be one of the "performance" geeks who was frequently measuring DAW performance. I'm intimately aware of how DAWs and audio interfaces perform, and how the current crop of excellent DAW benchmarks originated. We owe a lot to folks like TAFKAT and the great work he's done with DAWbench, etc...

The point where I stopped worrying about performance so much was with my 6-core Windows machine. I finely tuned the machine to beautifully stable, low-latency perfection, and it never let me down. Cubase just worked wonderfully on it, and I even overclocked it to get that extra mileage out of it. But I found the overclocking was unnecessary, and I reverted to stock speed.

Problem was, I could never max out the machine in a REAL WORLD session. That's the key. It handled everything I threw at it for *real, paying* jobs, and did everything I asked of it. Now, I do know of folks who could definitely max that machine out due to their massive orchestral templates, but even when I was working on larger sessions, I would just use VE Pro and slave a couple of other computers when needed. Which is what most of the big orchestral template guys do anyway as well.

But for MY sessions, this 6-core had essentially caught up with and surpassed what I needed to ask of it. Another good friend of mine recently built an even newer 4-core Haswell machine, overclocked it, and it performed basically just as well as my 6-core at stock speed! I was so impressed and quite thrilled to see that extraordinary performance for him. It dawned on me that we've essentially caught up to where we dreamed we would be a few years ago. Sure, there are times when VE Pro slaves are still going to be needed (even for me and the types of projects I do). But nowadays, we've reached whole new levels of incredible performance with the current generation of computers, where the old Windows performance advantage no longer holds real weight for the vast majority of DAW users.

Granted, there are always going to be plugin developers that will push the edge, and I'll be the first to line up for U-he's next synth plugin, for example. But even multiple instances of U-he's Diva, which can suck up a lot of CPU, can run just fine on today's machines, on Mac and Windows, no problem. So now it's really a catch up game... only this time, it's not the hardware that needs to catch up, it's the software developers that now have all sorts of new power awaiting their algorithmic genius. Yes, the pendulum will swing the other way again, and we'll all need to upgrade hardware... but the landscape has materially changed in the past couple of years, where a typical computer has mind-boggling power that it can do quite a few impressive things with audio at low latency.

And when they start writing plugins that can really take advantage of all these cores, massive RAM and SSDs we now have, I'll be ready to upgrade. Until then, Mac or Windows machines are really no longer competing for the low-latency crown anymore. As far as I'm concerned, Windows can keep the crown and run with it. What matters most now are other issues, that revolve around user experience, personal preference, workflow preference, hardware preference, studio/client preference and interoperability, etc.... Win vs. Mac performance is now irrelevant to me. Both work fine for just about anything you can throw at them. *Other* things matter more.

And I should add, that realization ultimately lead me to experiment more and more with Macs -- I've had them on and off for a long time for client purposes -- but after running some tests on Macs with Pro Tools and Cubase, and picking up a retina Macbook Pro, I decided to take the plunge and switch for my main DAW... there were many reasons, not the least of which was a building pressure from clients, etc..., but overall, I'm really pleased with the switch, and so far I definitely prefer OSX to Windows... we'll see how it goes in the months ahead! :)

Finally, having said all that, what matters most is really what works best for individuals and their workflows. Whatever works best to help *you* do the work you want to do is what you should stick with.
by uarte
Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:54 am
 
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Re: PC to Mac migration

I'm in the process of making the jump to Macs, and it's been outstanding so far. No major hoops to jump through -- things tend to work very well so far, on both a Mac Pro and Macbook Pro. I definitely prefer the OSX workflow now. Windows 7 was fine (and still ideal for a VE Pro slave), but I hated Windows 8 and have been feeling a lot of pressure from clients to move to Mac for Pro Tools reasons... so I tried Cubase 7/7.5 on Mac as well, and it works beautifully so far. C7.5 in particular feels quite good on a Mac.

Can't comment on moving preferences and key commands yet, as I am still adjusting. But I can't see why you can't set up things the same way you did before on PC. I'd suggest doing the initial set up manually, though... just to play it safe with moving preference files across platforms, etc...
by uarte
Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:23 pm
 
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Re: PC to Mac migration

I've read a lot of negative on the fusion drive for DAW use, and I don't like playing guinea pig. Just for paranoia's sake, I'd stay away from fusion drives for now. Running fine here on both SSD and old fashioned mechanical hard drives!
by uarte
Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:18 pm
 
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Re: THANK YOU STEINBERG!! Cubase 7 and Cubase 7.5 are amazin

Ok. It may be supposed to be a feel-good thread. But...

But when using large letters, like shouting out from a roof top or joining a parade will provoke the half of the users that experience problems and/or severe disruption in workflow.

Like silouette said:
Surely a "thanks Steinberg I'm loving it" would have sufficed. Given that you have seen a number of users who are experiencing difficulties a little bit of tact might have worked better .

Never the less, I feel good :D

PS. I think Freddie H got what he wanted ;)

Guys, I hear what you're saying, but come on, let Freddie be Freddie. Of course Cubase has bugs, of course it isn't perfect, of course there are people who are dealing with issues, just like any major software! I've criticized Steinberg my fair share in due course.

But to give Freddie a hard time when all he's doing (in my view) is expressing his enthusiasm, just seems a bit glum, as I implied before. Just let him do what he does. Frankly, I enjoy reading his posts from time to time, and I think he's generally more like a Steinberg cheerleader. So what? We could use that around here!

When we need a serious thread, we can start (yet another) serious thread. There's plenty to be serious about. But let's give the guy some space.

And who cares if he's shouting with caps and fonts and smilies? He rarely says anything directly offensive, and if he does, it's generally well-meaning from what I have seen. We actually need more people like Freddie in the world. And besides, those font/smilie options are sitting right there in the forum interface, and if you find it a breach of netiquette, just ignore him.

And finally, no one is saying that serious people and serious threads are wrong or not needed. I have had my share of problems with Steinberg over the years, and I will join the occasional angry threads if I think it will help. But this thread and other similar Freddie threads are just generally intended to be light-hearted, positive testimonial and opinion in my view, as are most of Freddie's posts as far as I can see. He's human too, so I'm sure he crosses a line sometimes, but generally, I find his posts positive and good-natured.

My two bits only. I have no beef with any of you. I also don't know Freddie personally, although I remember him from the Cakewalk forum, and he was a positive upbeat guy there too for the most part. And I definitely agree with the sentiment of the OP. Cubase is indeed amazing. Perfect? No, of course not! Amazing? You bet. Let's take a moment every once in a while to get some perspective. Granted, Freddie takes more than "just a moment" expressing his enthusiasm, but so what? I've been around DAWs (and just before DAWs) long enough and can appreciate the golden age of awesomeness we're in right now, and frankly, I can use a dose of enthusiasm to remind me.
by uarte
Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:18 pm
 
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

@Jalcide - I hear you, and I have some friends that took Apple's actions (or non-actions) as hard as you did following the Final Cut fiasco. But I respectfully disagree with you about the magnitude of the "betrayal" in this case.

I used to to be a Mac user -- something I don't discuss regularly on this or other forums since it's been such a long time -- and at that long-lost time of yet another Apple "betrayal" I said "never again" to Apple. Well, here I am, back on Macs and totally enjoying them... The problem is not that Apple stopped supporting "pro" users. They didn't. The weren't about to. The problem was that they were so secretive about their plans that they created a PR problem, that many people interpreted as a sign of waning support for pros.

Now, I won't disagree that their support on the surface for pros has became ambiguous, but let's take a look at a few facts:

1) The Mac Pro line of 2009-2012 was and still is pretty dang powerful. If you picked up an 8-core during that time, your music and audio production needs are still being met for almost any type of project requirements, starting with Nehalem CPUs, which initiated the current generations of CPU awesomeness. Those machines run Mavericks beautifully, and run Cubase, Pro Tools, etc., just great. Unless you need to create massive orchestral templates, they will *still* be fine, in which case, you're already looking at VEPro anyway. I've personally benchmarked my Mac Pro 8-core against my much more recent Windows 6-core machine, and it is roughly comparable performance (within about 20%) on average latencies. On low latencies, the Windows 6-core machine will of course smoke the Mac 8-core, but for my types of projects, the 8 core Mac is more than adequate and does surprisingly well at low latencies too with RME hardware/drivers. And I own a business, so I am particular about getting my money's worth. Yes, true that bang for the buck = Windows. However, there's plenty of bang still in the aging Mac Pro platform for most music/audio guys for extremely large projects, no problem, as long as you went 8-core or higher. And again... there's VE Pro when more is needed. And BTW, there's no need to buy the *new* 2013 Mac Pros, at least for now. I expect in an iteration or two, the prices will come down, and things will change yet again. There is plenty of life left in other Macs (older Mac Pros, or current Macbook Pros, high-end iMacs, etc.) for music production to have to go and drop $3000-$9000 on a new 2013 Mac Pro that is more aligned with the video production pros than audio pros at this point. Although, time will tell...

2) Apple was never going to abandon the "Pro" market, although the definition of what "pro" actually means is becoming irrelevant, or at least very blurry with many users. In any case, they were not about to lose their elite cache. They just didn't handle the PR well as they publicly moved heavily into the consumer market. Many people overreacted, including many of my friends, swearing "never again" and here most of them are, still using Macs. You and a few of my friends decided to stick with Windows, and I absolutely understand that reasoning... having done so myself several years ago... before I started switching back after a long absence. :)

3) Intel CPUs made a huge shift in 2009, and the iterations after that were mainly about power/performance ratio as opposed to just purely performance. So what we saw with CPU iterations was that a quad core of today could be slapped in a powerful laptop that competes with Xeon Mac Pros and Windows workstations of yesteryear. That also applies to iMacs and Mac Minis. The gap that emerged with the aging Mac Pro platform was indeed filled with top-of-the-line iMacs. As much as I hate to admit it, and as much as I hate the word "iMac," some of my friends started buying these beautiful 27" iMacs and top-of-the-line Macbook Pros with nice current Core-i7 quad cores and could largely do what I could do on my custom Windows workstations. The CPU performance war has basically ended, in my view! There just isn't a need for *most* composers/producers to get something more powerful than a current-gen quad core i7, a bucketload of RAM and a big SSD. The shift is almost complete, and most pro audio users can easily go that route and get all the power they need. For the fringe cases of people who actually do need more CPU power, there is VE Pro, which is already part of the workflow of many pros. Yes, the pendulum may shift once again for ever-more-greedy CPU-eating plugins, but for now, the CPU war is not that important, as long as you run a recent Core-i7. For those who want to get very technical, they can easily build a much more powerful Windows machine for less money. But we're not talking a vast difference for business owners who look at 2-3year price structures and longer-term hardware investments.

So Apple's slow response on the Mac Pro line really had several things impacting it... Apple's insane secretiveness, poor PR to "pro" users, Intel's shift of focus to power/performance CPU design, the fact that CPUs had basically caught up with pro audio needs somewhere in 2009-2010, and ultimately, a shift in the paradigm of computing anyway.

So in my view "betrayal" is too harsh a word. But I do understand the "sting" of it after so much time and money has been invested and people were left wondering what Apple's real strategy was. This "betrayal" is really a communication problem intersecting with the crossroads of technology trends. Not nearly as dire, at least in retrospect, as many people proclaimed. And keep in mind such levels of "horror" stories can be told over and over again for Avid/Pro Tools users. Talk about platform, strategy, pricing and abandonment issues! :) Trust me, I run Pro Tools here too, and rely on it for business. No one, not even Apple, can come close to the drama with Avid, in my view.

In any case, I definitely do agree with you on some points -- the most important being that I also no longer buy products that are on one platform only! That's a great strategy. All the main apps and plugins I use now are cross-platform. That covers that platform base.

But more importantly, I have finally decided that the term "never again" really can't apply to the technology industries today. This industry -- and the the sub-industry of pro audio companies -- has so many pressures on it, so many changes that sweep through, so many unpredictable variables, that I'll "never again" say "never again." Apple has its share of problems, but so do the other players, and what matters most to me, personally, is just having the right tools to get the job done *today*. If I could, I'd run my whole studio on Linux and be done with Microsoft AND Apple. However, I tried that many times, and I keep fairly current on Linux developments, as well as run a couple of Linux servers, but it just doesn't cut it for pro audio work when all the best plugins, DAW apps, etc., only run on Windows and Macs. What little does run well on Linux is just, frankly, not what my clients want... so I'm stuck with Windows or Macs. :( Practicality and working with clients has trumped my higher ideals. :)

Anyway, I appreciate your point of view. You need the right tools for your projects and peace of mind, and your current configuration works best for you. Best of luck with that, and may our paths cross again! Here's to making great music with all these amazing tools! :)
by uarte
Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:19 pm
 
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Hi Freddie, as always, an enthusiastic statement (EDIT: referring to a controversial post which Freddie deleted), which I enjoyed reading. Naturally, I respectfully disagree with you on many of your points, but not for the obvious reasons.

1) In 5-6 years, according to many predictions by people who know a lot more about it than you or I do, the personal computer as we currently know it will radically change -- that applies to both Windows and Macs. A "desktop" operating system of today will be obsolete.

2) However, even those experts can't predict too well what the replacement of current personal computers will look like, although if current predictions hold, it may look something like a cross between an iPad, Kinect/PrimeSense device, Oculus Rift and/or Google Glass. Those same people predicting a radical shift in the industry also completely missed the iPad, Kinect, Oculus Rift and Google Glass! So who really has the answers? I suspect no one in this forum. :)

3) How DAWs will fit into that new paradigm is anyone's guess this far out, but the overall PC picture will be very different than what we have today.

4) #1, #2 and #3 are essentially irrelevant to people who need to make music right now, today, this minute, in 2013. Because your version of 2019 is a long, long, long way away... an eternity in tech land. Current DAW users need to use the best tools available *today* to help them get their projects done *today*.

5) Both Windows and Mac platforms run Cubase beautifully *today*, and I can vouch for that personally. You can get great, professional hardware that run both platforms, so that is not an issue. The choice of platform is a personal preference issue now, no fanboyism is needed on either side... and the performance wars are over, Freddie. You may have missed the memo. A "typical" Windows machine and a "typical" Mac running the same software will produce the same results in the hands of the same person, and performance is no longer a primary issue. Sure, Windows will always win the bang-for-buck equation, and no one is going to argue that you can get a certain % more plugins running on the same cost of Windows machine, but so what? Even a cheap Mac Mini, as humble as some people might think it is, can work miracles in the right hands... including with Cubase. There is no need to bash either platform now.

6) In 5-6 years not only will the entire personal computer landscape change, but so will the DAW software landscape change. I can guarantee that the only DAW developers left standing in 5-6 years will be the ones who are embracing the coming paradigm shifts. The ones that will come out on top will likely be making bold bets and taking some risky moves, and more importantly, they will be AGILE to the coming changes. That's actually why I think Steinberg will still be standing... they've been doing well on mobile and now getting into gesture recognition. That's where UI stuff is headed, according to many predictions, and they're already allocating resources to experiment in those areas. Even if those areas don't pan out, they have invested in and are aware of the coming technologies and trying to be agile. I hope they keep it up. Or Cubase will become the next Opcode Vision.

7) Whatever happens in the future will involve a LOT of change for everyone, not just Mac users, so the best advice someone can give to users in the "here and now" is not to jump on or dump on Windows or Mac, etc... but rather to build a platform-independent workflow and make sure you have a solid strategy to archive older projects/content to a lowest-common-denominator (such as wav stems), so that in 5, 6, 10 years you can still access your projects to some degree or another.

8) In the end, what matters most is the music you are making *now*. Who could have predicted the rapid rise and fall of recent tech trends? The same holds for music technology. But let's not engage in platform bashing. We all use Cubase here, and we all know it's an incredible DAW.

EDIT: This post was in response to Freddie's post which he deleted.
by uarte
Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:02 pm
 
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

BTW, as as interesting side note about the new Mac Pro being used in the industry by actual pros, I just talked to my friend who runs a video production facility (they do video, film and compositing/post production) and they are ordering a bunch of new Mac Pros right now. I do work for them as audio post production with Pro Tools, and some sound design and music with Cubase. And bear in mind this is one of the guys I mentioned in the past that HATES what Apple has done, dumped Final Cut, and was planning on moving to Windows. Nope. He's still staying with Apple! And lots of them. Mac Pros are here to stay folks. Despite Apple's handling of pros recently. I was very surprised he's jumping into the new waters so soon, but there it is. I was almost sure he'd be moving to Windows by now, at least for compositing. Nope. And I'm not sure Adobe is even ready for the new Mac Pros yet! And still, he's ordering them. Now this is for video/film of course, so this doesn't directly apply to us since the new Mac Pros are not really designed for audio. However, it does just go to show what type of grip Apple has on certain segments of the pro market, even for those who have been angry with Apple like my friend. As for me, I'm still in the process of migrating to Apple, in part because of pressure from clients like him -- it just makes the whole workflow more seamless for everyone in the pipeline of his productions -- and every last one of us uses Macs, despite many grumblings. I, for one, am happy with the transition, but as I mentioned, keep Windows machines on hand in case I need them. The main thing is to try to be as platform agnostic as possible, so I can be flexible. What really matters is getting the job done and paying the bills, folks. :) I couldn't care less about a silly Mac/Windows fanboyism on either side.
by uarte
Sun Dec 29, 2013 4:47 pm
 
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

And bear in mind this is one of the guys I mentioned in the past that HATES what Apple has done, dumped Final Cut, and was planning on moving to Windows. Nope. He's still staying with Apple!

That's the power of the Apple cult. Apple can even bankrupt their fanboys (and they literally did that), but they will keep sticking with the it, even to their own detriment. Reminds me of millions of not-exactly-rich people who keep voting for a certain party that only favors the super-rich... Masochism?

Papi, with all due respect, that's just an insane statement that has no bearing with reality of most of the pros I know who use Macs. It doesn't do you justice to make such asinine statements. Most of those pros simply want to get a job done, they have families, they have bills, they have lives, and they don't give a flying @#$% about Mac vs Windows. And they are doing just fine professionally, thank you very much. The ones I know make videos, films, art, games and yes, music, and don't ever bother with forums. The time they save by not reading threads like this is used to make more films and music. They use computers that you might laugh at and insult for one trite reason or another: Gee, they spent too much money! Gee, my computer can do 50% more plugins! Gee, they are _____! -- etc... fill in your old tired insult here.

Yes, there is a cult out there, it's way smaller than you think, and everyone I know who uses Macs isn't part of it, we don't care, it doesn't matter. And while you're calling people out on cults, you may want to re-evaluate the guy staring at you in the mirror about why you feel the need to vent so much on this topic. Why don't you just go do what you're probably much more talented at, and make music? Isn't it enough that we all share the same DAW app to be digging at a bunch of people who simply prefer one platform over another? And those guys are not going to bother with responding here in this forum, so it's easy to cast stones at them.

I'm simply wasting my time responding because I used to be on the other side, and I'm sick and tired of people characterizing Mac people as cultists. It's simply ignorant and frankly trite. I'm sure you are capable of recognizing that some people are just not like you and have different preferences in life -- that doesn't make them smarter or dumber or better or worse than you. Surely, there are more important things to intelligently criticize people about, like politics, but you irrationally tied politics to Mac-fanboyism and has no place in this forum. Seriously, your posts are making me re-evaluate how I look at your other posts in this forum, that I normally look at with respect for your intelligence.

And honestly, I'm so sick of reading these types of threads, I'm checking out of this thread. Watching cute kitten videos on YouTube is more worthwhile at this point.
by uarte
Mon Dec 30, 2013 12:34 am
 
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Re: Printed Cubase 7.5 Manual

I'm old school when it comes to manuals in some ways... I like a really well-written 1000-page monster, the more detail the better. But since I went iPad, I no longer would want something like that printed on paper. I have boxes of old manuals that do nothing for me and are totally out of date now. All they do is collect dust and waste space. I might have used them for a while at some point in the distant past, but I'd rather annotate a PDF on an iPad nowadays.
by uarte
Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:54 am
 
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Hi Papi,

I've decided to jump back into this thread in a genuine bid to try to understand your point(s) and share my point(s) as simply and clearly as possible. This attempt may go nowhere, but I truly hope I can get to the bottom of what you're trying to say, without any personal criticisms. Just your point(s) on their merits alone and my point(s) on their merits alone.

I'll leave my source material for your comments just to this thread. Please feel free to clarify on your point(s).

1) You say that "no serious soundtrack composer would use a laptop as his master machine"

My response: That's your opinion. I disagree. There are plenty of "serious" soundtrack composers who would or could use a laptop as their master machine if they wanted to. But more to the point and in a larger context, a modern high-end laptop -- for example, a high-end DAW laptop from the likes of ADK (I own one and can vouch for them) and a high end laptop from Apple (I also own one) are both more than capable of being a primary front-end for a "serious" soundtrack composer, not to mention for many other pro audio purposes, such as post production, sound design, mixing, mastering, composing in general, and any number of other pro audio applications. And I should add that not everyone in this forum or who uses Cubase in general is interested in being a soundtrack composer -- there are plenty of people here that are pros or have pro aspirations who do plenty of professional work on laptops and on computers far less powerful than current-gen high-end laptops.

2) You say, "Logic Pro is the only valid reason to use a mac, for anyone who just starts."

My response: This is simply incorrect. Logic Pro is of course not the "only valid reason" to use a mac, not to mention macs are not just "for anyone who just starts." Not sure where to begin on that one. But I'll simply start with this fact: a major "valid" reason why people choose one platform or another is simply personal preference. Some people simply prefer to use a Mac, some people simply prefer to use Windows, and there is nothing wrong with that either way. That is one of my main points of prior posts in this and other threads.

Additionally, a recent-gen Mac with a quad-core CPU or better is perfectly capable of running professional audio applications and generating professional results. It's suited for many levels of music production task, from beginner to seasoned pro, in any genre and professional submarket of the music and audio industry. Likewise, you can easily find Windows computers that are also suited for the same tasks. Either platform is capable of any number of pro audio, amateur audio, and beginner audio tasks.

Beyond personal preference and capacity to handle most any type of pro audio task, there are many other "valid" reasons why one person might choose one platform or the other:

a) easier compatibility with friends, collaborators or clients
b) TCO - total cost of ownership (this can be complex calculation that goes far beyond a single computer)
c) business requirements
d) contractual reasons
e) support contracts
f) familiarity of specific hardware/software
g) requirement to use a specific piece of hardware or software
h) client preferences or even client requirements
i) availability
j) pre-existing software/hardware infrastructure investment
k) project workflow
l) performance of a specific application or plugin
m) etc....

3) You say that a "macbook is a consumer-grade machine that would never ever pass military standard testing, like most business laptops do."

My response: Assuming you are referring to a MacBook Pro, not an old MacBook, your point is irrelevant. Military testing is not required, and in fact "most" business laptops are in fact NOT military tested. Some are, but definitely not "most." In any case, a current-gen MacBook Pro is more than capable of producing professional results, and, speaking from experience of owning many business laptops, the current MacBook Pros are built very well, and perfectly capable of handling the rigors of day-in day-out professional use. "Military standard testing" is of course not required. There are also plenty of Windows machines that do not have "military standard testing" that are also perfectly well suited for professional music production. I can personally vouch for ADK computers, for example, which are NOT military tested the last time I checked, and they are some of the best pro audio Windows laptops in the industry. And I can also personally verify that while very well built, the ADK laptops are not as well built or as well designed as my MacBook Pro. However, in either case, I'd be happy to use either machine for professional audio work.

4) You say that "There's nothing you can do to improve a mac....You cannot tweak a mac because Apple won't let you."

My response: That is incorrect. There are plenty of things you can do to both improve and tweak a mac, and also customize and configure them in many ways, besides the obvious hardware and software additions. Of course, you can tweak and customize Windows computers far more than Macs, since you have easy access to the BIOS of PC motherboards, but your statement is very misleading. OSX is a modern POSIX-compliant operating system built on Unix, as I'm sure you know, and there are numerous under-the-hood tweaks you can make to services and features running on Macs that are not that different than changes you can make to Windows machines. In fact, if you have a strong Unix/Linux background, there are plenty of things you can do on OSX under the hood that are very fascinating indeed. But even on a simple level, there are several minor tweaks I use on my Macs that are helpful for DAW use, from disabling Spotlight, disabling FileVault, changing the power profile, hiding alternate boot volumes with fstab, etc. Those types of tweaks are actually similar in principle to simple tweaks I also do to my Windows machines. But beyond that, there is a whole community of Mac Pro users who have been using different EFI firmware on their Mac Pros, for example, so they can upgrade their CPUs to a newer generation of CPUs, etc. I've personally tested this, and was able to increase memory speed and CPU support. There is a community of users who have modified graphics firmware, motherboard firmware, tweaked drivers extensively, not to mention an entire community of people who support Hackintoshes so you can run OSX on an even wider variety of custom hardware if you want to. And on top of all that, Macs run Windows very well via Boot Camp or Parallels Desktop, etc. The number of things you can actually do to a Mac and with OSX in general is pretty impressive. Multi-booting on a Mac with Windows, OSX and Linux is quite easy to do, which opens up other interesting doors as well.

5) You say, "plugin count isn't everything (granted, it depends on how you work...)"

My response: agreed. :)

6) You say, speaking of James Horner, Trevor Rabin and James Newton Howard using Macs, that "They use mac because they're old and not very tech-savvy and they can't get accustomed to another OS."

My response: I can't speak for James Horner, Trevor Rabin and James Newton Howard, but I think you can't speak for them either. Maybe they are old. Maybe they are not very tech-savvy. Maybe they can't get accustomed to another OS. Maybe not. Maybe they just like using Macs? In any case, they are professionals using Macs and doing fine, which simply supports the fact that there are plenty of pros of a high order that use Macs for this specific class of work... not to mention there are many other pro audio tasks done on both Macs and Windows that have nothing to do with film scoring. The post production industry in the US is dominated by Pro Tools, mostly running on Macs, in my experience, as I am sure you know. We could talk for hours about various sub segments of various entertainment industry professionals that use Macs in large majority to Windows. In any case, the platform is irrelevant to the level of work produced. Users of both platforms are limited only by their own skills and talents.

My general position is that the platform wars are over. It's no longer relevant what platform you are running on, other than mainly workflow and personal/business preferences. Whatever works best for you and your unique situation. Performance is of course better on Windows -- as I have stated before, you will of course get more bang for the buck on Windows. I have never argued otherwise. But the delta between Windows and Mac performance is smaller than ever, based on tests I have run myself, having been a heavy Windows user and follower of TAFKAT's excellent DAW Bench work. While there is no doubt a Windows machine of the same price as an Apple machine will give you more plugins and better lower latency performance, the difference in price, amortized over the total cost of ownership in a business lifecycle is not that much, so it is not the headline issue it once was. There is no need to battle it out with Mac vs Windows, in my view. The two platforms can and do co-exist perfectly happily in the same studios where professional work is being done and paid for. And thank heavens for VE Pro, which makes working with both platforms better than ever.
by uarte
Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:51 pm
 
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Re: mac 10.9.2

Okay, checking out your screenshots... I don't see any red flags so far. I can't speak for the quality of UA drivers on Mac... I'm using RME. I wonder if there's a driver issue? Unlikely, but possible.

Only thing that pops out at me, now that I think of it, is VSTBridgeApp... if you're running 32-bit plugins in VSTBridge for Cubase 64-bit... that might be causing some of your headaches. I've completely moved away from 32-bit plugins due to poor performance of VSTBridge.

So... perhaps there's some slight issue wth VSTBridge and/or the UA driver?

So, perhaps a test by removing any 32-bit plugins from your session.

OR, try running Cubase in 32-bit mode and see what happens... the way you do that is by going to Applications folder and right-clicking on Cubase, then click on Get Info, then click on Open in 32-bit mode.

Other than that, I suspect there may be some sneaky issue with a plugin and 10.9.2 -- some plugin I haven't tested...

FYI - I just loaded up a test session with 48 VSTi tracks all playing simultaneously with high total polyphony, and with 144 VST plugins on top of those tracks, using Cubase 7.5.10 on OSX 10.9.2 at 256 sample latency on an RME device -- it was totally stable, nothing strange so far. So for me, I feel pretty confident with 10.9.2.

Will report back if I spot a problem that might be related to 10.9.2 on my system, but I doubt it at this point.

Anyway, I hope you can work out your situation and get it running smoothly!

Please post with your status either way, would be good to know what you find out...
by uarte
Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:41 pm
 
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