[Confirmed] Timestamp issues

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[Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby alex.molcanov » Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:19 pm

Hi, I've pourchased Nuendo Live, cos I'm working on Nuendo for years, and I like it quite a lot. I've build a recording rig based on MacPro and RME HDSPe madi card... with TCO option..
I've found, that Nuendo Live would be the right software solution for my purposes.. I've bought TCO option to be able to record sound in sync with video.. I'm not a newbie, so I know how to achieve reliable sync with video. Features offered by Nuendo Live on your webpage sounded really good to me.. BUT.. some of the statements are just NOT RIGHT. And this is huge shame..
Timestamp in the files is always 6,5 frame in advance to the real LTC.. compared to recordings from Black Box and Digital Betacam... I've tried different buffer settings an pre-record times... no change. Still way OFF
Once I start another recording in the session, the previous one is shifted to wrong position on timeline.. This simply can NOT happen in such a product... Than makes no sence to export whole project in AAF, cos everything but the last take is totally OUT of sync... including markers
Thanks to this issue also compatibility with Nuendo makes no sence, nothing is on its position!!!!
And I see, that I'm not the only one having this problem..
I hope, that I get some reply from Steinberg representative and some improvement.. otherwise page describing Nuendo Live ability to time-stamp files with accurate timecode, so that it matches up perfectly in post-production is pure LIE.
If you need some advice from ral user, ask me. But this product is actually a SHAME..
Very good idea, but very bad result...
So? I'm vaiting for some sort of contact...
Thanks
alex molcanov
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Re: Is Steinberg serious about Nuendo Live?

Postby alex.molcanov » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:40 pm

No one? NOTHING?
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Re: Is Steinberg serious about Nuendo Live?

Postby Big K » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:46 pm

I could not repro this..
Who else is troubled by this?

6.5 frames equals roughly a quarter of a second...
Nobody would want to work with that offset, but also,
anybody would immediately recognise such an error...

Big K
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Re: Is Steinberg serious about Nuendo Live?

Postby tth » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:26 pm

I am . I have even bigger gripes. Time stamps for me are anywhere from 2 to 6 frames off. They have never matched a Logic pro rig on the exact same hardware, 2 other Nuendo 5 rigs, a Tascam X-48, and a Cinedeck, all recording from the same desk on the same Madi stream with the same TC generator.
But, even worse, after a 2 hour+ record, I have had anywhere from 6 frames to 3 seconds of DROPPED SAMPLES from Nuendo Live's record file. This again is compared to all of the above recording hardware, all in the same studio environment. All the other rigs have EXACTLY the same amount of samples in a 2+ hour record. As they should have.
This makes Nuendo Live a dangerous piece of software, able to get you fired.
I have been writing and asking tech support every week for the last 6 weeks for any solution, but I get no answers.
I thought Nuendo Live was built on based on the proven Nuendo program code?
If you are considering buying Nuendo, think about another product first!

Tom
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Re: Is Steinberg serious about Nuendo Live?

Postby Hugh » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:31 pm

Hello,

As Tom said, it's dangerous and apt to get you fired. We have experienced all the above issues Tom described and done further testing as noted in another thread to show that the timestamps are ALWAYS incorrect by a number of frames, and vary by some other number of frames based on buffer size, preroll, and sync device. "Regular" Nuendo 5, PTHD, EVS, CineDeck, KiPro, Sony SR, and all the other devices we've tested with synchronize correctly and have EXACTLY the correct number of samples. Nuendo 5 does not exhibit these problems, only Nuendo Live. This has been tested on a number of hardware implementations.

The timestamp offsets have only been noticed by a few because of two things. First, during the beta testing phase the MTC functionality was broken, there was no way to select the sync device, therefore no way to test. We were assured it would be fine for the release version. Second, those folks needing this functionality, i.e, the ability to sync exactly with existing video, are not commonly using Nuendo Live. A high profile engineer with a large mobile PT facility sometimes uses Nuendo Live as a PT backup with his non-truck systems, very portable. He made an interesting comment a while back before we discovered all this that caught my attention - "Nuendo Live works fine as a PT backup, we just offset the files from their timestamps due to latency". Of course anyone who uses "regular" Nuendo knows that's not necessary, Nuendo compensates sync correctly. He didn't know it was supposed to do that and thought he had to offset when using MTC.

We've proven unequivocally that Nuendo Live does not timestamp correctly and drops samples. Again, apt to get you fired.

Sincerely,
Hugh
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Re: Is Steinberg serious about Nuendo Live?

Postby TimoWildenhain » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:03 am

Hello,

thanks fpr bringing this to our attention. We will try to reproduce the problem,
although we have a couple of thousand Nuendo Live units out in the market and
have not heard about it before.

THanks,
TImo
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Re: Is Steinberg serious about Nuendo Live?

Postby Hugh » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:40 pm

Hello Timo,

Thanks again for the response. I will attempt to help where possible.

Timestamp repro -

Set up identical Nuendo Live and Nuendo 5 systems fed from the same source, we use Madi.
Set up to chase LTC.
Do a test recording on both chasing code.
Import N5 and NL files into any workstation spotted to timestamps.
NLive files are offset significantly, a few frames.
Change buffer settings, record again.
NLive files are still offset but by a different amount.
Change MTC sync devices if you are able.
NLive files are still offset but by a different amount than the N5 files.
Change preRecord amount.
NLive files are still offset but by a different amount than the N5 files.

- To eliminate variables we simultaneously tested with NLive, N5, PTHD, Cinedeck, EVS, SonyHR, KiPro, and MetaCorder. They all were as close as could be expected except NLive which was a few frames off.

--------------------

Dropped samples repro -
This one is more difficult because it's not consistent.

Set up identical Nuendo Live and Nuendo 5 systems fed from the same source, we use Madi.
Set up to chase LTC.
Do a long test recording on both chasing code, we used 3 hours.
Import N5 and NL files into any workstation spotted to timestamps.
Move NLive files so that an audio hit at the beginning lines up with N5 files.
Examine a hit near the end of the files, look to see if they're exactly lined up.

You may need to do this a number of times, it took us 5 tries before we found one that dropped samples. On the other hand Tom had it happen on quite a few recordings, there does not appear to be a pattern. The only thing we can guarantee is that all systems have been set up correctly and clocked correctly; we used identical hardware for our NL/N5 tests and we're very good at clocking and synchronization issues.

- To eliminate variables we simultaneously tested with NLive, N5, PTHD, Cinedeck, EVS, SonyHR, KiPro, and MetaCorder. All the audio hits lined up exactly except for the instances where NLive dropped samples.

Sincerely,
Hugh
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Re: Is Steinberg serious about Nuendo Live?

Postby tth » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:30 pm

Timo,
I have version 1.0 of Nuendo Live, as there has never been an update on your website.
If you want, & tell me where, I will send you the test files, or put them on a dropbox. They are large. It will be a week until I get back to that hard drive...
Or, I can send you screen grabs of beginning & end of the waveforms in LOGIC.

Thanks,

Tom
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Re: Is Steinberg serious about Nuendo Live?

Postby alex.molcanov » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:15 am

TimoWildenhain wrote:Hello,

thanks fpr bringing this to our attention. We will try to reproduce the problem,
although we have a couple of thousand Nuendo Live units out in the market and
have not heard about it before.

THanks,
TImo


What? Are you joking me? OK, maybe you never tested, or experienced problem of timecode offset, maybe.. But please, don't tell me, that you don't know, that when recording more than one take in timecode chase mode, Nuendo Live doesn't preserve realistic postion of individuale takes on timeline... So for me it makes no sense to use aaf export or to open project in Nuendo... cos all takes, but the last are not on their position on timeline... Very sad...
I can send you many recording sessions... and compare than timecode stamp inside files with position on timeline...
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Re: Is Steinberg serious about Nuendo Live?

Postby alex.molcanov » Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:30 am

Big K wrote:I could not repro this..
Who else is troubled by this?

6.5 frames equals roughly a quarter of a second...
Nobody would want to work with that offset, but also,
anybody would immediately recognise such an error...

Big K


And are you recording with timecode?
Yes, anybody can recognize this, but I didn't bought software to recognize it's errors, but to do, wahat it promises to do..
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Re: Is Steinberg serious about Nuendo Live?

Postby TimoWildenhain » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:49 pm

Hello,

I can confirm the problem. We will have it on the list for the next maintenance update.
I'll soon let you know when it will be available.

Thanks for reporting.
Timo
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Re: [Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby tth » Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:47 pm

Timo,
Which problem have you confirmed, time stamp or dropped samples?

When you say the next maintenance update, was there ever one before? I am still on v1.0, and unless it is hidden somewhere, there isn't anything newer...

THX

Tom
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Re: [Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby TimoWildenhain » Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:00 pm

Hi Tom,

I actually can confirm both. The update has not been released yet and - unfortunately - I'm afraid it will
take a few months until this can be corrected.

Thanks
Timo
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Re: [Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby Hugh » Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:49 pm

Hello,
Good to hear you've FINALLY found the dropped samples and timestamp issues. We look forward to an update.
Hugh
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Re: [Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby alex.molcanov » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:58 pm

Few months? Few months when product is not doing what Steinberg promises it does? Key features? like having things in sync, or not losing data through drops? Bad joke Steinberg, bad joke.... And how could be such important product for live recording (mostly you have to record something unique, what can not be reproduced) launched without finding out such huge error? no tests? Nothing? How much professional is this?
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Re: [Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby Bifop » Mon May 06, 2013 4:37 pm

Hello Timo, do you think the timestamp issue will be resolved by the end of July ?
We just got Nuendo live to record a serie of concerts and an early august Festival and I need the time to be acurate (video and music recording).
I'm the main engineer for a little recording truck venture (Le Balladeur) and I was the one pleading Nuendo Live's case (instead of PTools). I don't want to be embarassed. :oops:

Thanks in advance.
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Re: [Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby alex.molcanov » Fri May 31, 2013 11:02 am

Bifop wrote:Hello Timo, do you think the timestamp issue will be resolved by the end of July ?
We just got Nuendo live to record a serie of concerts and an early august Festival and I need the time to be acurate (video and music recording).
I'm the main engineer for a little recording truck venture (Le Balladeur) and I was the one pleading Nuendo Live's case (instead of PTools). I don't want to be embarassed. :oops:

Thanks in advance.


Nobody responds? I see, that Steinberg takes it really seriously :-)
unbelievable...
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Re: [Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby TimoWildenhain » Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:38 am

Hello,

we're currently looking into the code. I'm not able to state an exact fixing date by now, but will
make a post AS SOON AS we have valid information.

Thanks for your understanding.

Thanks,
Timo
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Re: [Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby room66 » Sat Nov 23, 2013 5:34 pm

No update yet? Doesn't look like I'm going to buy
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Re: [Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby Hugh » Mon Nov 25, 2013 11:22 pm

Hello,

Yes, the inaccurate timestamps and dropped samples on long recordings forced us away from Nuendo Live some time ago. Kind of a waste, it was a good concept. Simple, easy, quick, useful. We own quite a few Nuendo licenses and use them on the largest tv shows and were hoping NLive would be useful for simpler acquisition. Now we have large Nuendo systems and large ProTools systems. Moving on.

Hugh
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Re: [Confirmed] Timestamp issues

Postby noisyboy9 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:22 pm

Is the Program still on Version 1.0.0? I can't see any updates!
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