Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby papi61 » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:47 pm

edz wrote:
Not very recent, http://collider.com/exclusive-hans-zimm ... inception/

Hans Zimmer Part 2 at 8 min 28s Steve Weintraub, the interviewer speaks of the gear at the place where HZ just sat down: "there's a Mac etc..."


In case you haven't noticed, my link is about two years newer than yours. Zimmer switched from mac to pc, like many have done, myself included. You just can't admit it to yourself.

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2012/10/i ... laborator/


NO partial benches like the one you gave a link of: this man builds and sales Windows based machines



Curigliano's benchmarks are very well-respected by sound engineers who have verified them on their own. But then again, you seem to be in complete denial. You just can't accept reality.

Computers are tools and professionals use whatever tool is best for them. Those people who aren't smart enough to transition to another OS or they're too attached to their Macs for emotional reasons will keep using their Macs but buying PC's as VEP slaves. Simply because AppIe doesn't offer anything that powerful at any price. Oh yeah, the new mac pros are coming, we've been hearing that since 2009. Just like the new Logic is coming any day... :roll: Again, we've been hearing that since 2009...
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Headlands » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:37 am

I've been on PC with Cubase since SX3. I see just as many people crashing and cursing their Macs with Cubase or Logic or PT than I do myself, without a single doubt (except on earlier versions of Cubase).

Right now I'm on Nuendo 6.03 and it's unbelievably stable. It's generally been that way for me since Cubase 5 (I recently switched to Nuendo for post and automation features). I have gigantic sessions with huge amounts of VSTIs, etc., and crashes very rarely happen -- I'm not joking, truly. Windows Pro 7 64-bit is fantastic, just not as slick-looking as OS X (I also have a Macbook Pro). I haven't moved to Windows 8 yet.

So, I can heartily recommend PCs based on my own experience. But you need to make sure you have the right parts, etc. A part of what helps make Macs stable is that they are in complete control of what's in their computers, so they make sure it all works. With PCs there are so many variables that it can cause many problems. Get a computer from ADK and you'll very likely be as happy as I am with my system.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Elektrobolt » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:28 am

I would go PC, it's much better. Even the acronym says so "Preferred Computer".
MAC is inferior in every way, as its acronym will tell you "Minor Adding Computer".

* I am only prolonging the argument for Pete's sake. Stella Artois has a fine body for any further entertainment.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby sampolfonz » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:54 am

Well, here is my 2 cents...

Last November, a buddy of mine and I built a monster music pc to replace my mac pro. I have been a Mac guy since the late 1980s, but I felt it was time to build a PC.

i7 Sandbridge 3930, Asus board, 32 gig of Corsair ram....killer box, cooling system and power supply, packed with three large internal hard drives and external drives.

I got it all loaded up and began work. Here is what I found. It killed two hard drives that were connected via the eSata connection on the MB (externally). If the OS would crash for some reason and I had to hard reboot, it killed the drives. Two different drives at two different times.

Next, My User file somehow became corrupted. Corrupted User File...really ? Is Windows 7 that unstable, that just anything could corrupt the user file?

With Cubase 7, when opening it, it took an extended time to show the startup box (steinberg) and even though the list of songs were there, it took a while for them to be able to be opened.

Just last night, after spending three hours on the phone with Microsoft Support (level 2 support tech) we gave up on repairing my corrupt user file. The tech said I needed to create a new user file. We did, then open Cubase. The Audio was damaged...the driver, I mean. Trying to play a song, it had this terrible noise underneath the program material.

I was fed up.

I stripped my machine and re-installed my PCI soundcard, UAD 2 Duo card, hard drives and put everything back in my Mac Pro 2.66 Quad Core machine. I couldn't handle the "iffy" of going out to work and my computer (PC) not being able to function.

Once I put everything back in the Mac...interestingly, Cubase 7 opened faster at the startup screen. The songs were available instantly to be selected and loaded. It took the same amount of time or faster, to have this song up and running.
And Cubase 7 was just fine. Songs created on the PC ran beautifully on the Mac. Where the PC did shine was in times of using Vari Audio....the processing of the file was just fantastic on the PC. The exporting time wasn't any slower on the Mac than the PC, but loading East West Play piano was about twice as fast on the PC than the Mac....I will miss that. But, I will not miss the "not knowing if I am going to have issues today when trying to work" fears.

I guess I will be content with my Mac Pro 2.66 Quad Core with 12 Gig of ram. I will miss the potential of what the massive PC was supposed to be, but I will not miss the issues. I mean, Windows 7 Professional, should be professional. I shouldn't have to worry if a frozen OS (which, I still can't figure that out) and a hard re-boot is going to crash my User file, or whatever.

I'm just disgusted. I spend $2,000 on the PC build and spent 2 months researching before that to make sure we got exactly the right MB, processor, power supply, case, video card, ram....etc....and it came down to Windows issues, same as I have heard my PC User friends complain of down through the years....like having to re-install OS, reformat hard drive, virus issues...etc.

Do you get what I am saying here? I can count on two or three fingers the times I have had to do system re-installs on the Mac over the years...and I have been a Mac User since the late 1980s. I have administrated 25 or 30 Macs down through the past 20 years, my own and for places I have worked...they rarely had issues. Just repair the permissions regularly and things run like a dream. Could my issues with the PC be that the OS is on an SSD and not on a sata drive? Mmmm...

Okay, I might not sell the PC, but, wait...if anyone wants to spend a couple thousand dollars I could offer you a Monster PC (if you think you can master Windows better than I have).

My thoughts....for now, I'm gonna stay on my Mac
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby papi61 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:10 am

Plenty of anecdotal stories about macs not working as they should. I'm a former mac user, it wasn't nearly the smooth sailing Apple fanbois claim it is. According to your logic, it proves that the mac is absolutely unreliable.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Guest » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:06 am

sampolfonz wrote:Okay, I might not sell the PC, but, wait...if anyone wants to spend a couple thousand dollars I could offer you a Monster PC (if you think you can master Windows better than I have).

My thoughts....for now, I'm gonna stay on my Mac


sounds like a corrupt motherboard to me ,did you return it and renew it ?
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Rumdrum » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:55 am

@rumdrum: you mentionned VEPro, I use this wonderful soft but what do you mean by "VST linked"?


The setup is described in the Cubase manual. The essence is:
You need two computers, each with their own soundcard. The make of the computers does not matter. You can have two MACs or two PCs or one of each. The soundcards must have digital outputs. I use ADAT to connect a Hammerfall in the MAC to a Creamware in the PC. You need Cubase installed on both computers. I have CB 7 and 5.5 on the MAC and 4.5 on the PC. Thus each computer have their own dongle with proper license. As mentioned I use the PC to run plugs that are not compatible with the MAC or too old and unsupported on CB7/newer OS. Works just great.

You start by opening CB on both computers and linking the two by activating the VST System link (use manual for reference). After you have done that it works kind of like a rewire set up. Both transport panels are linked. As not even VEPro operates all plugs I have, this is the set up I then use. But as plugins are getting better and better and released commonly for both platforms I use it rarely, but there are some great synths I use through this set up. Many of them free too, found on mag CDs like Computer Music or found on http://www.myvst.com, and also some that came with the Creamware soundcard. I must admit I used a couple of hours to get it to work, but once set up it works just fine. I was in the lucky position of having both the soundcard and the PC "just laying around". If you start from scratch on your investment I think you really need some favorite old plug that won't run on your main computer. On the other hand you can buy second hand. My PC is the oldest PC I have in the house. A 12 year old XP.

I have a spare Creamware soundcard for PC if you are in need of one for this set up.
Last edited by Rumdrum on Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:18 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Rumdrum » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:11 am

For some people, mac is a religion. And like all religions, it relies on groundless beliefs and faith. Like the mac being invulnerable to malware and windows crashing every 5 minutes. Or windows requiring constant tweaking and maintenance and the mac never having any issue of any sort.


The guy asked for our experience. That was all I gave. I do not think MACs are the greatest thing on earth for all purposes. I do not worship it. I do not turn to it once per day to pray. I currently own 7 computers, not counting the iPad. "Only" two of them MACs. But I firmly believe that for CB MAC is the superior computer. I'm not born with this belief. It has come through several years of experience running CB on both platforms. Does my experience count as a serious scientific experiment? Nope, even my approx 20 computers with CB over the years is not enough to rule out coincidents. However the question was for our experience, not a science report. So to summerize my experience: For CB MAC rules!
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Pete » Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:53 am

Edmond, the situation is, as you know, that we are not sure what will happen to the MacPro in the future. The 2012 model is more than twice as fast as your 2008 MP. And people are getting great result with the latest quad core Mac Minis too. They outperform your MP quite a bit and cost a fraction. And they offer great connectivity unless you need PCI.

Look for benchmarks at http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

If possible, wait till after WWDC in june. By then we'll probably know what plans (if any) Apple have for the MacPro.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby papi61 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:03 am

Rumdrum wrote: But I firmly believe that for CB MAC is the superior computer.


What you believe is irrelevant. Benchmarks don't lie. Even Steinberg themselves have admitted Cubase runs better on Windows.

These are quotes from some mac users on this forum:

robotpriest:

"Unfortunately Cubase performance, especially at low latency, can be around 4x better on Windows. I'm a Mac user myself, and still get work done, but I wish things were better."

Stealth:

"All cross platform DAWs perform better on Windows than Mac. The only reason why Logic performs better than Cubase on a Mac is because it "cheats"... if I remember correctly, Logic actually runs all tracks at the highest latency/buffer settings except whatever track(s) that is armed for recording/playing which will be set to the user specified latency/buffer."

parnasso:

"I have a Macbook Pro from 2008 (Core 2 Duo at 2,5 GHz with only 4 GB of RAM) and I get absolutely satisfying performance with it. Apparently Windows systems have a considerably better performance at low latency"


kzarider:

"I use both Mac and PC, I network them using VST bridge and both platforms work well together. I have not had as much success using the 64 bit version in mac as I have in the PC. I have also had a lot of issues using Vienna Instruments and Vienna Ensemble PRO on the mac with Cubase 6 as the GUI does not seem to work in 64 bit."

SirJoseph:

"Apparently, Cubase does perform a bit better on Windows."

curteye:

"Keep in mind that these day a Mac can run the Windows OS just fine. I have a buddy that does this and IMHO Cubase is 'zippier' in that environment."
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby BriHar » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:46 pm

Obviously PC user will tend to steer you toward PCs and Mac users will want to steer you toward macs - same old - same old.
Bottom line is you want a machine that will run Cubase optimally. Steinberg not too long ago touted the HP Z series to be ideal for Cubase 7 ("Cubase 7 has been tested on professional HP Z workstations for maximum reliability and certified performance"). So, if that is anything to go by, then using an HP Z Workstation as a model, building or buying a system with same or similar specs should give best results. I went with a Lenovo Xeon Server/Workstation as it had the important specs covered with added SSD drives and an alternative graphic card, and have not regretted it at all.

Ahh, I found it: http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/cu ... s_new.html
"Made for each other: Cubase and HP
Finest software requires finest hardware. That's why our best software specialists rely on the world’s leading PC hardware manufacturer. Cubase 7 is quality-tested with HP's professional Z series workstation computers, ensuring highest performance and maximum reliability packed in a rock-solid chassis. Carefully selected components optimized for recording, editing and mixing allow for efficient audio data transfer rates throughout the whole system. Be it the industry-proven Intel XEON processors or the ultra-fast SSD drives, HP Z machines squeeze the best out of Cubase, speeding up your entire studio software environment.
"
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby uarte » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:08 pm

BriHar wrote:Obviously PC user will tend to steer you toward PCs and Mac users will want to steer you toward macs - same old - same old.


For the record, not all of us PC users will steer people towards PCs. I think he should use what he's comfortable with, and if he's already on VEPro, then he could use a mixture of PCs and Macs. But I also will be realistic and say that PCs will give people better low latency performance, which has been proven fairly scientifically at this point by the excellent DAW benchmarks by TAFKAT and crew. (See DAWbench site.)
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Rumdrum » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:17 pm

What you believe is irrelevant. Benchmarks don't lie. Even Steinberg themselves have admitted Cubase runs better on Windows.


So you're saying that my experience is just bull? I wish you could come and tell that to the PC's I have tried CB on. Think that would make them perform better? Perhaps put the test sheets into the DVD drive would do the trick?

Please get it into your head that the question was our experience, not a resume of some dubious test. Guess he would have found the test on the net himself. As you also should understand is that the test is one thing, experience deviate from it in either direction. Guess that is why the question was asked. If you think the referred benchmark is the answer to all questions on the two platforms you are so wrong and the numbers of computers tested in the benchmark are way too few to give serious and significant results. So please go back to your test sheets and spend your time there.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby BriHar » Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:50 pm

uarte wrote:
BriHar wrote:Obviously PC user will tend to steer you toward PCs and Mac users will want to steer you toward macs - same old - same old.


For the record, not all of us PC users will steer people towards PCs...

Hence the reason why I worded my statement explicitly to show a "tendency" as opposed to a rule.
Your post is but one, read the others, the tendency is obvious and to be expected.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby papi61 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:48 am

Rumdrum wrote:
What you believe is irrelevant. Benchmarks don't lie. Even Steinberg themselves have admitted Cubase runs better on Windows.


So you're saying that my experience is just bull?


It might well be. It's not like you have presented any EVIDENCE of what you alleged. And even if it were real, it could still be the result of your incompetence.

not a resume of some dubious test.


Here's a suggestion: if you want to be credible with people other than Apple fanbois like you, instead of just slandering Mr. Curigliano (who certainly knows computers much better than you) why don't you do your own tests SCIENTIFICALLY (i.e. you post equipment and methodology down to the tiniest details) and then post them? You see, an Apple fanboi claiming that his PC's malfunction all the time isn't something terribly original to read on the internet. And then of course reasonable people would ask themselves why on earth would someone with such an emotional attachment to Apple ever use PC's.

And BTW, what part of Steinberg claiming that the best system they tested Cubase on is an HP Z workstation did you not understand? Let me guess, Steinberg is also in the conspiracy to smear your beloved Apple? I bet that's what you think.

You proved my original point about fanbois being emotional and in complete denial and making stuff up to support the unsupportable.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Pete » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:41 am

papi61 wrote:
Rumdrum wrote:
What you believe is irrelevant. Benchmarks don't lie. Even Steinberg themselves have admitted Cubase runs better on Windows.


So you're saying that my experience is just bull?


It might well be. It's not like you have presented any EVIDENCE of what you alleged. And even if it were real, it could still be the result of your incompetence.

not a resume of some dubious test.


Here's a suggestion: if you want to be credible with people other than Apple fanbois like you, instead of just slandering Mr. Curigliano (who certainly knows computers much better than you) why don't you do your own tests SCIENTIFICALLY (i.e. you post equipment and methodology down to the tiniest details) and then post them? You see, an Apple fanboi claiming that his PC's malfunction all the time isn't something terribly original to read on the internet. And then of course reasonable people would ask themselves why on earth would someone with such an emotional attachment to Apple ever use PC's.

And BTW, what part of Steinberg claiming that the best system they tested Cubase on is an HP Z workstation did you not understand? Let me guess, Steinberg is also in the conspiracy to smear your beloved Apple? I bet that's what you think.

You proved my original point about fanbois being emotional and in complete denial and making stuff up to support the unsupportable.



Steinberg do not say HP's are better than Mac's. They just say that HP's are tested and work with Cubase. The performance tests you have linked to are outdated and only show Cubase'/ASIO shortcomings.

And your Apple hate have a religious dimension that is very amusing.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Rumdrum » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:43 am

Here's a suggestion: if you want to be credible with people other than Apple fanbois like you, instead of just slandering Mr. Curigliano (who certainly knows computers much better than you) why don't you do your own tests SCIENTIFICALLY (i.e. you post equipment and methodology down to the tiniest details) and then post them? You see, an Apple fanboi claiming that his PC's malfunction all the time isn't something terribly original to read on the internet. And then of course reasonable people would ask themselves why on earth would someone with such an emotional attachment to Apple ever use PC's.

And BTW, what part of Steinberg claiming that the best system they tested Cubase on is an HP Z workstation did you not understand? Let me guess, Steinberg is also in the conspiracy to smear your beloved Apple? I bet that's what you think.

You proved my original point about fanbois being emotional and in complete denial and making stuff up to support the unsupportable.


Are you blind? If you know just a little about statistics you would recognize that the referred benchmark just tells the result of the benchmark and that it is NOT applicable for other computers. (Too few computers tested. Too few configurations. What you see is all there is. NOT What you see is what you get).

I have also tried to hammer into your head that the question was for PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, not who could give reference to any benchmark test.

And you see to have missed the point that I currently use no less than 5 PCs and "only" two MACs. And you then conclude that I am a MAC "Fanboy"? And BTW I have been working with computers since 1976 and then I mean as a professional, not just a user, and conducted a lot of benchmarks over the years. Guess I´ve seen most of them in most configurations. So I also know "a little" (for you "a lot") how much benchmarks can deviate from actual situations.

Agin - are you blind?
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Guest » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:00 am

wow it's amazing suddenly all these computer experts have risen from the grave ,anyone got a spare beer ive run out ???? ;)
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby papi61 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:26 am

Pete wrote:
And your Apple hate have a religious dimension that is very amusing.


Fantastic, you people keep proving my point. Unlike you, I don't have any emotional attachment to computers, any more than I have to a hammer or a saw. So no, there is no hate whatsoever. I switched from mac to windows and I'll switch from windows to another OS, if that means getting better performance.

You, on the other hand, feel very threatened by anyone who dares to say that your object of veneration sometimes may not the best machine for the job. You just can't accept it, and that proves my point.

And in case you haven't noticed, I posted quotes of Apple users (not fanbois like you, just users) on this forum that confirmed what I said about windows being the better platform for Cubase. I wonder if you consider them "Apple haters" too for daring to say that the mac may not always be the best solution. Actually I know that's exactly what you think.
Last edited by papi61 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby papi61 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:34 am

Rumdrum wrote:
And you see to have missed the point that I currently use no less than 5 PCs and "only" two MACs. And you then conclude that I am a MAC "Fanboy"?


I'm sorry but I don't believe a word of what you're saying. You have stated that PC's are inferior machines (without providing an ounce of evidence of course), so it wouldn't make any sense for you to use them. Like I said, plenty of examples on the internet of fanbois like you claiming to have PC's that fail all the time. You're not very original.

You are making absurd claims and you have zero evidence to back them up. Even worse, your attempt to defame Mr. Curigliano was shameful. Like I said, provide you own tests for anyone to verify your credibility, or lack thereof. Until then, you have no authority whatsoever to question Mr. Curigliano's very detailed and very scientific tests.
Last edited by papi61 on Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Plasuma » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:43 am

papi61 wrote:
Pete wrote:
And your Apple hate have a religious dimension that is very amusing.


Fantastic, you people keep proving my point.


C'mon, the point isn't that important. It's not worth your effort or any ruckus.


People use what they like and both Windows and OSX platforms work fine.
There. We're done. We can all go home now.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby 7blackknights » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:46 am

I've been working for 20 years with both OS's and this is what I found out : since XP and even more with W7 (didn't test 8 yet) the performances of MAC and Windows are equivalent, a mac is really "plug and play" when a custom PC is more "plug and pray", however if your budget is less than $4.000 I'd go for a PC...and a prayer ;)
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby papi61 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:52 am

7blackknights wrote:I've been working for 20 years with both OS's and this is what I found out : since XP and even more with W7 (didn't test 8 yet) the performances of MAC and Windows are equivalent, a mac is really "plug and play" when a custom PC is more "plug and pray", however if your budget is less than $4.000 I'd go for a PC...and a prayer ;)


OK, so Hans Zimmer switched to PC because he can no longer afford a mac. And he's willing to live with an "unreliable" machine that requires prayer to work because, after all, what he does isn't very important.

Yeah, that makes sense. :roll:
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby dark blue man » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:42 pm

7blackknights wrote:I've been working for 20 years with both OS's and this is what I found out : since XP and even more with W7 (didn't test 8 yet) the performances of MAC and Windows are equivalent, a mac is really "plug and play" when a custom PC is more "plug and pray", however if your budget is less than $4.000 I'd go for a PC...and a prayer ;)


Prayers don't actually work in reality, unless one relies on lucky coincidences and pure chance. Diligent research, on the other hand, coupled with the scientific method actually does work more often than not.

To the OP. I would urge you to ignore anecdotes. You'll hear horror stories from both camps. They are meaningless. Do some research. If you still think it viable to spend the extra on a MAC then go with that. Other wise build a powerful PC with quality components and have enough left over to buy a good UAD-2 system, or similar.
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Re: Cubase on Pc or a Mac ?

Postby Rumdrum » Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:03 pm

I'm sorry but I don't believe a word of what you're saying.


You have fully proven that.

You have stated that PC's are inferior machines (without providing an ounce of evidence of course), so it wouldn't make any sense for you to use them.


Nope never said that. That is your conclusion after I said that I prefer MACs to run Cubase, Never said anything about other programs, filesystems and workflows. Believe it or not, I use PCs for almost anything else.

fanboy


Wonder where that came from? since I have 5 PCs 2 MACs and use PC for almost anything else than Cubase.

defame Mr. Curigliano


Nope, not my goal. Just a fact that benchmarks are just benchmarks and can only be concluded for the computers, and that is the actual used computers and NOT the make, involved. It is a common mistake to believe anything else. Common, but a mistake never the less. I do fully believe that the benchmark has been carried out and that the results are presented correctly. However that is all I can pull out of it. As mentioned the benchmark involves too few computers to make any significant value to the public in general. Read up on statistics.

Making claims with zero evidence


What kind of dictatorship is this? The question was NOT for evidence at all, just my experience. Testing approx 20 computers is my experience. I do NOT claim this to be statically better than ANYBODY else's experience or better statistically than any other benchmarks, but it IS my experience.

scientific test


You reveal yourself as no scientist. The test is not even close to fall under those terms. It would need thousands of computers.

Grow up.
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