Cubase and 4K monitors?

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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby JMCecil » Tue Aug 20, 2013 3:15 am

knuckle47 wrote:..is the purpose of obtaining these 2560 and higher resolution numbers is so fonts and graphics look sharper on a large screen ?
It's the opposite .. it's simply about real estate. Some high resolution monitors are capable of extremely crisp fonts though .. however, they are usually really small.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby theRoyal1 » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:16 am

Yes but don't forget, you can make your fonts and Icons large...you won't miss a beat! :geek:
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby JMCecil » Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:03 pm

theRoyal1 wrote:Yes but don't forget, you can make your fonts and Icons large...you won't miss a beat! :geek:

Except in programs where you can't ;)
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Freddie H » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:47 pm

Reiknir wrote:
Patanjali wrote:If one wants to run 4K video at high refresh rates, multiple top-end video cards are required, which is why I suggested feeding video in at lower resolution into another monitor or an actual TV(with overscan off), or timecode sync to a separate video machine.


Nope, Nvidia does not support it in software but AMD/ATI and some Matrox cards with dual outputs allow output combining, so we can use fairly cheap cards to drive 4K screens, we have been using them with IBM T221 and DVI adapters for that purpose for years.



Sorry but you are wrong my friend. :)
NVIDIA video cards and software drivers support 4K monitors on both Windows 7 x64 and Windows 8.1 x64.


Version: 326.80

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This Game Ready driver offers the best gaming experience for Splinter Cell: Blacklist and is also a recommended driver update for the Windows 8.1 Preview. GeForce R326 drivers also provide performance increases for a variety of different games.

New in GeForce R326 Drivers
•Performance Boost – Increases performance by up to 19% for GeForce 400/500/600/700 series GPUs in several PC games vs. GeForce 320.49 WHQL-certified drivers. Results will vary depending on your GPU and system configuration. Here is one example of measured gains:
GeForce GTX 770:
◦Up to 15% in Dirt: Showdown
◦Up to 6% in Tomb Raider

GeForce GTX 770 SLI:
◦Up to 19% in Dirt: Showdown
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•SLI Technology
◦Added SLI profile for Spinter Cell: Blacklist
◦Added SLI profile for Batman: Arkham Origins

•SHIELD
◦Enables GeForce to SHIELD streaming. Learn more here.

•4K Displays
◦Adds support for additional tiled 4K displays
◦Extended support for tiled 4K features


Additional Details
•Installs new PhysX System Software 9.13.0725.
•Installs HD Audio v1.3.26.4
•Includes support for applications built using CUDA 5.5 or earlier version of the CUDA Toolkit. More information at http://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-toolkit
•Supports OpenGL 4.3 for GeForce 400-series and later GPUs.
•Supports DisplayPort 1.2 for GeForce GTX 600 series GPUs.
•Supports multiple languages and APIs for GPU computing: CUDA C, CUDA C++, CUDA Fortran, OpenCL, DirectCompute, and Microsoft C++ AMP.
•Supports single GPU and NVIDIA SLI technology on DirectX 9, DirectX 10, DirectX 11, and OpenGL, including 3-way SLI, Quad SLI, and SLI support on SLI-certified Intel and AMD motherboards.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win8-win7- ... river.html



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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:54 am

HarrySound wrote:I have a 27" top spec 2012 iMac and of course i'm running in 2560x1440.
I find text of something like Kontakt is hard to read it's so small. Cubase is generally ok but imaging that on a 4k res is going to be silly.

The pixels on the 27" are 8% smaller than on a 30", which are 11% smaller than on the 4K Seiki, so the controls on the Seiki will look substantially larger than on your 27".

You assumed wrong.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:10 pm

Note than when comparing TV/monitors, you MUST compare the pixel pitches of each, which are usually listed in the device specifications.

With OSes, like Win/OSX, that specify font and GUI elements in pixels, the size of dialogs, text and other display elements is directly proportional to the pixel pitch for that display device.

If the displays are scaled at 100% in the OS, then text/control/dialogs displayed on a Seiki 50" 4K TV (pixel pitch = 0.265mm) will be 15% larger than on a 27" 2560x1440 monitor (pixel pitch = 0.230mm). Conversely, a 4K TV/monitor would have to be 40.5" to have the same size pixels as that 27".

Now please stop the FUD about how 4K will make everything SO SMALL, and get back to reality!
Last edited by Patanjali on Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby sempondr » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:32 pm

HDMI 2.0 officially announced.
"The extra bandwidth will allow HDMI 2.0 to carry 4K x 2K* pictures at 50Hz and 60Hz frame rates."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/09/04/hdmi_20_spec_published/
Hope new Seiki TV's will support it.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby theRoyal1 » Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:49 pm

If they release a Firmware update, I would consider buying it the next day. :geek:
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby theRoyal1 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:22 am

Sad, Seiki is releasing a 55" & 65" BOTH with HDMI 1.4 standards...

ugggh. Missed opportunities there.
I would do the 55" or 50" in a Heartbeat!



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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby sempondr » Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:05 pm

Official response from Seiki on their facebook page:
"Like most brands, Seiki is working on introducing HDMI 2.0 models as soon as possible. You can expect models to be available around 2nd quarter next year, if not sooner."
October 25 at 5:30am
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:24 am

With the competition in the 4K space, the price of the Sony 55K9004A 55" has dropped from UA$5K down to $4K.
This model will be getting a firmware update to HDMI 2.0 at the end of this year.

The significance of this model is that it is by far the cheapest of the name brands, has PASSIVE 3D (their other 55" 4K model is active) with 4 pair of glasses (+2 x dual view for gamers) and several Bluerays optimised for upscaling.

The downside is that it has inbuilt speakers at the side, which makes the TV extra wide, but otherwise, it has a beautiful screen, especially up close.
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Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby theRoyal1 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:35 pm

For me, that's what makes SEIKI attractive. I don't want 3D, Speakers, or any additional features that don't involve making the picture better.

Whoever is the 1st to get (at least) 60hz in a 4k @ the $1k mark will be the studio monitor winner. 8-)

Depending on the black friday deals, I may jump the gun on one if not, I will hold off until 60hz comes along.

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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby sempondr » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:46 am

theRoyal1 wrote:For me, that's what makes SEIKI attractive. I don't want 3D, Speakers, or any additional features that don't involve making the picture better.

+1
I think Seiki is aware that many buy their 4K TV's to use as PC monitors (don't care about bells and whistles) and will act accordingly when designing next models (cheapest possible price, HDMI 2, "PC mode" unprocessed input option).
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby theRoyal1 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:58 am

Just copped a 50" for under $800...let's see. :)


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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby beatpete » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:40 pm

theRoyal1 wrote:Just copped a 50" for under $800...let's see. :)


:geek:


Let us know!
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby theRoyal1 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:12 am

Will do, Should be here tomorrow and I have a day off Friday so I will be doing a few trax w/the 50" :D


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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:54 am

I created a 3840x2160 cutout of a screencut of Cubase 7 and iZotope RX3 to take into shops to see what it would look like on various TVs, particularly the Sony 55X9004A. I included RX3 because it would really benefit from having as many pixels as it can.

Unfortunately, I did it as a .png, which wouldn't work in the Sony, but it did work in the Samsung UA55F9000A, and it looked very crisp and legible, though the in-your-face retail colour settings were to much.

I want to use a 4K TV to replace both my two Dell 30"s and my current Samsung 40" TV. Ideally, I would like it to have passive 3D, which is optimum on 4K, but major manufacturers like Samsung and Panasonic make only active. LG's top model is passive, along with the Sony 55X9004A. The latter has side speakers, but their model 55X8504 without the speakers is active. Que?

Also, the passive LG and Sony models are >50% heavier (33kg) than the Samsung (20kg), which makes a real difference when using a VESA mount.

Looks like I will have to decide if passive 3D, for the few times that I will want it, is worth the extra weight-bearing structure I would need to build.
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby sempondr » Thu May 22, 2014 7:46 pm

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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Fri May 23, 2014 2:04 am

In Australia and elsewhere, the model is 49UB850T, but it does seem to be a reasonable price for the full package, especially compared to the lower end Samsungs that don't even have 3D, let alone passive like the LG. While 3D is not the be-all, it seems odd to not included it at all on TVs that are still in the premium price bracket.

However, it is being released at the end of May here, so I eagerly await in-depth reviews and a chance to look at them for real with a couple of mockup screens.

It all really hinges on availability of HDMI 2.0 video cards. I am surprised that video card manufacturers are dragging their feet here, as 4K seems to be the first TV technology that really has a serious chance of serving as general low-cost (relative to 'pro') computer displays. While some TV manufacturers have put DisplayPort 1.2 on some of their models, they have a whole other target market for which such connections are just unnecessary overhead expense.

With gamers being the traditional cutting-edge consumer spenders on video technology, the card makers seem to be ignoring their enthusiasm for 4K at higher rates than 25/30Hz.
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Indigo » Fri May 23, 2014 7:18 am

I use Cubase 7.5 with a 3-screen setup through nVidia's Surround technology. The overall resolution is 5760x1080, which amounts to over 6K. I don't see why 4K would be a problem...

I know it's a gaming setup, but it works fantastically with Cubase and Sony Vegas Pro.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Fri May 23, 2014 12:39 pm

Indigo wrote:I don't see why 4K would be a problem...

The problem is that TV makers and video card makers are NOT both using the same connector protocols that enable 4K at anything more than 30Hz, which as a gamer I suspect you would not be happy with!
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Indigo » Sat May 24, 2014 1:14 am

Patanjali wrote:
Indigo wrote:I don't see why 4K would be a problem...

The problem is that TV makers and video card makers are NOT both using the same connector protocols that enable 4K at anything more than 30Hz, which as a gamer I suspect you would not be happy with!


My three screens are all connected via HDMI. And they're all standard "full HD" (1920x1080.) In other words, nothing fancy. If they weren't monitors but TV screens, it would be exactly the same. Unlike with ATI cards, nVidia Surround technology does NOT necessarily need display ports. In fact the three screens can all be attached to HDMI ports. BTW, the resolution is 5760x1080 @ 60 Hz. My GPU is the amazing GTX780ti. Definitely pricey ($700 street), but well worth it. Oh, and this monster is also incredibly quiet. If you have a good computer case with great noise reduction (like the Antec Sonata III), you don't even hear it until you put your ear to the case.
Main system: i7 4770k, 32gb RAM, 512 gb SSD (OS), 1 tb SSD (audio), 3x 3tb SATA III 7200-rpm drives (samples), 3x 3tb USB 3.0 (backup/general storage), nVidia GTX 780 ti (3 monitors), Antec Sonata III case, Win 8.1 Pro, RME UFX audio interface.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Sat May 24, 2014 8:14 am

Indigo wrote:My three screens are all connected via HDMI. And they're all standard "full HD" (1920x1080.) In other words, nothing fancy. If they weren't monitors but TV screens, it would be exactly the same. Unlike with ATI cards, nVidia Surround technology does NOT necessarily need display ports. In fact the three screens can all be attached to HDMI ports. BTW, the resolution is 5760x1080 @ 60 Hz. My GPU is the amazing GTX780ti. Definitely pricey ($700 street), but well worth it. Oh, and this monster is also incredibly quiet. If you have a good computer case with great noise reduction (like the Antec Sonata III), you don't even hear it until you put your ear to the case.

I have always used fanless cards over the last few years.

4K offers the advantage of a contiguous (no bezels) workspace that is equivalent to four full HD TV/monitors. I want it especially for using RX3.

However, 4K will not work on any of my video cards, and while there are several that will work at 30Hz via HDMI 1.4 connections, none have HDMI 2.0, which has the larger bandwidth for 4K at 60Hz.
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
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Patanjali
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Indigo » Sat May 24, 2014 9:51 pm

Patanjali wrote:
Indigo wrote:My three screens are all connected via HDMI. And they're all standard "full HD" (1920x1080.) In other words, nothing fancy. If they weren't monitors but TV screens, it would be exactly the same. Unlike with ATI cards, nVidia Surround technology does NOT necessarily need display ports. In fact the three screens can all be attached to HDMI ports. BTW, the resolution is 5760x1080 @ 60 Hz. My GPU is the amazing GTX780ti. Definitely pricey ($700 street), but well worth it. Oh, and this monster is also incredibly quiet. If you have a good computer case with great noise reduction (like the Antec Sonata III), you don't even hear it until you put your ear to the case.

I have always used fanless cards over the last few years.

4K offers the advantage of a contiguous (no bezels) workspace that is equivalent to four full HD TV/monitors. I want it especially for using RX3.

However, 4K will not work on any of my video cards, and while there are several that will work at 30Hz via HDMI 1.4 connections, none have HDMI 2.0, which has the larger bandwidth for 4K at 60Hz.


Well, I do a lot of video editing, so fanless cards are really not an option for me, because their performance is abysmal (and yet perfectly competent for DAW use.)

Yes, I know about the 4k requirements, what I was trying to say is that for the purpose of running a DAW with as many pixels as possible (i.e. enlarged workspace), a 3-screen setup like mine is still the most practical solution, and one that wouldn't require super-expensive hardware (you can still have a 3-screen setup even with a cheap GPU, although you will definitely need more than one.) I don't spread the sequencer page over multiple screens, I actually only use the central screen for that, the right screen for the mixer and the left screen for VST management. So the bezel thing is really not an issue for me.
Main system: i7 4770k, 32gb RAM, 512 gb SSD (OS), 1 tb SSD (audio), 3x 3tb SATA III 7200-rpm drives (samples), 3x 3tb USB 3.0 (backup/general storage), nVidia GTX 780 ti (3 monitors), Antec Sonata III case, Win 8.1 Pro, RME UFX audio interface.
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Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby sempondr » Sun May 25, 2014 11:22 pm

Taken from Nvidia forum:

"Here is my conversation with Nvidia:

Karthik: Hi, my name is Karthik. How may I help you?

Ed Mario: It appears that all 4K televisions are/will support HDMI 2.0. When will your video cards support this. Will existing cards support 2.0 with a firmware update?

Karthik: Hello Ed,

Karthik: This will be a hardware feature & the HDMI 2.0 will not be updated via firmware.

Ed Mario: Thank you, so what will be the first hardware, and when will it be available? I heed to build a new computer and with the 4K monitors coming will wait for this feature.

Karthik: There is no confirmed details on the model number for now as it is still under testing, so officially I cannot comment on this yet but the future cards will support this."
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