Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

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Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby JMCecil » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:53 pm

I've been slowly trying to force myself to C7. And over the last few days I started working on a orchestrated piece from scratch ... no template carried forward from C6.

I loaded a VSL expression map, and it works fine but when I set the note coloring option to Sound Slot in the Key Editor it does not match the colors from my expression maps. I then tried several more, and it seems to ignore the colors from my maps. Anyone else have this problem? Am I missing/forgot a setting somewhere?
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby SteveInChicago » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:53 pm

Odd. I tried it out and at first it appeared broken, then I experimented with different articulations and directions. The more I experimented the better it worked.

Maybe vic_france will chime in on this, he is very articulate in this area. :lol:
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby JMCecil » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:02 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:Odd. I tried it out and at first it appeared broken, then I experimented with different articulations and directions. The more I experimented the better it worked.

Thanks for checking. I'm not sure what you mean by "the better it worked" Do you mean the more notes and stuff you tried the more often the colors of the notes was correct?

Maybe vic_france will chime in on this, he is very articulate in this area. :lol:

vic is indeed the man when it comes to this stuff :D
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby SteveInChicago » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:14 pm

At first changing an articulation made no difference, but as I putzed around randomly changing and adding them to notes the colors began to display. Sometimes as I moved the mouse over the notes their colors would change (which seems bugly), And by better, yes, I meant the colors displayed correctly more often.

That was the extent of my troubleshooting though, and I don't use colors for articulations much, and I did not start with fresh prefs, so I might be missing something here.
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby JMCecil » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:17 pm

perfect, thank you. I always used the colors with VSL because the number of articulations can be hard to "see" in the KE. It's funny how much easier that is on the score. Weird.
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby vic_france » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:36 am

I'm afraid I can't contribute much with this one.. because I have never experienced this problem here (whether using Directions or Attributes)… the colors change very reactively when I change an articulation, and correspond with the colors in my VST Expression Map Setup. On the other hand, I don't have VSL.. I am just wondering if this problem only arises with a very complex VST Expression Map? (maybe, just for testing, you could try with a very basic map, see if you get the same problem?)
Or, looking at the problem the other way round… maybe you could post the map, I'll load it here (doesn't matter if there is no VSL instrument to send it to ;) ), see if I experience any problems with the colour.

(EDIT: just to be certain there is no confusion… the colours are applied to the notes in the main body of the Key Editor window, not to the actual articulations in the Articulation Lane ;) )
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby JMCecil » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:34 am

vic_france wrote:I'm afraid I can't contribute much with this one.. because I have never experienced this problem here (whether using Directions or Attributes)… the colors change very reactively when I change an articulation, and correspond with the colors in my VST Expression Map Setup. On the other hand, I don't have VSL.. I am just wondering if this problem only arises with a very complex VST Expression Map? (maybe, just for testing, you could try with a very basic map, see if you get the same problem?)
Or, looking at the problem the other way round… maybe you could post the map, I'll load it here (doesn't matter if there is no VSL instrument to send it to ;) ), see if I experience any problems with the colour.

Thanks for checking in.
I'll do a few simpler tests as you suggest, then if its all still goofy I'll post the map and a picture ... it's been a crazy evening so just getting around to doing this.
(EDIT: just to be certain there is no confusion… the colours are applied to the notes in the main body of the Key Editor window, not to the actual articulations in the Articulation Lane ;) )

yes, the note entries in the KE .. I know all the articulations are the same color down in the CC area.
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby JMCecil » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:47 am

I'm going to have to play with it some more. It is "sort of" working. I guess it is very sensitive to note start/stop with quantize and snap where notes touch. If I shorten the notes it seems to color correctly most of the time. I'm assuming the times it doesn't I have something overlapping/overriding the color I think it should be. It is helpful just to know that it works for you. If I figure out a test that makes it happen every time, I'll post again and ask you guys to duplicate.
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby vic_france » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:51 am

Are these mainly Attribute-type or Direction-type articulations?
.. bearing in mind that direction-type are not necessarily "tied" to specific notes, so it is possible that they be slightly offset, thus giving an incorrect result (but that would mean they would also play incorrectly).
Last edited by vic_france on Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby JMCecil » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:52 am

Its a mix. I've tried selecting them in combinations. Still can't find the problem other than tight events
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby vic_france » Fri Nov 22, 2013 3:55 am

(o.k. I'll check back tomorrow.. bedtime now ;) )
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby JMCecil » Sat Nov 23, 2013 6:52 pm

well, it definitely has to do with overlapping/closely joined notes. So, it's probably working correctly and just me getting used to it. But, it isn't quite so finicky in 6.5.
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:15 pm

JMCecil wrote: But, it isn't quite so finicky in 6.5.
Here's what I am seeing with just one note. Insert a note and then a direction. (and confirm the start times are the same) the note does not get its color updated until it is moved later in time, even 1 tick. (or conversely if you move the direction back in time 1 tick)
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby JMCecil » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:24 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:
JMCecil wrote: But, it isn't quite so finicky in 6.5.
Here's what I am seeing with just one note. Insert a note and then a direction. (and confirm the start times are the same) the note does not get its color updated until it is moved later in time, even 1 tick. (or conversely if you move the direction back in time 1 tick)

yep, that seems to be consistent. Thanks, i was approaching it in a too complicated way.
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:32 pm

Well I think there might be more to it visually with different combinations of directions and attributes, but that is the one constant.
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby JMCecil » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:45 pm

I'm leaning towards reporting the issue, but I'd like a better set of reproduction steps.
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby vic_france » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:20 pm

I think I may have found something (by pure accident! :P )…
It seems to work o.k. if you insert the direction-type articulations before inserting the notes themselves (even if they are at the same positions).
Try this…
Select your wrongly-colored notes.. delete them (yes!).. then Undo. Do they now come back with the colors corrected?
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby JMCecil » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:24 pm

In airport delay heck at the moment. Probably won't get to try until tomorrow. But thanks for the info. It's clearly a bug. But I'm probably one of the few that even care about that feature.
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Re: Expression Map Articulation Colors in KE

Postby vic_france » Sun Nov 24, 2013 6:27 pm

JMCecil wrote:... I'm probably one of the few that even care about that feature.

Well, those colors are there to give us useful info.. so, at least, that info should be correct! ;)
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