Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby sdesign » Wed Apr 23, 2014 9:17 am

Hi,

There seems to be an issue with the MIDI Clock / tick messages being sent to other apps when you are using loop points (particularly noticeable if you set one bar looping).

Each time the the bar loops the receiving apps tempo will drift out slightly. This doesn't happen with those same apps if you don't use Loop Points and just let the song run, they will stay perfectly in sync, so it seems that the transport is definitely an issue at the Loop Points.

This doesn't happen with all apps, so I guess some apps (depending on how they implemented MIDI Clock Sync, Song Position, Continue etc.) handle this issue better than others, but it is definitely a Cubasis Loop Point issue as it doesn't happen when your not looping. You can actually hear it drifting with each pass of the Loop Point. The apps that I tested that struggle with keeping tempo when using Loop Points are DM1 and Electrify NXT.

I've tested this issue my iPad Mini Retina. I also tested it on my kids iPad 3 and iPad Mini (non-retina) all running the attest OS and version of Cubasis. All devices show the same behaviour.

I'm hoping you guys can fix this issue :-)

Alex
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby nozric » Sun Apr 27, 2014 9:54 pm

I've found this too, although the problem occurs before even trying to sync to another app. There seems to be some kind of internal timing problem when using loop markers.

To illustrate, try setting the BPM to 120 and setting a one bar loop with the metronome on. If you run it against a stopwatch you'd expect the tick of the metronome to occur *exactly* every 0.5 seconds (so two ticks per second). After just a few loops the tempo will start to drift. Quite noticeably too. So much so that it's impossible to use loops in Cubasis and sync them to anything else.

Like you, I've tried this on several devices and all have the same problem.

I'm surprised no-one else has reported this. Seems like quite a big deal to have such an important thing broken.

I'm really hoping they fix this too as it's useless to me without being able to sync loops in Cubasis to Ableton Live.
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby sdesign » Sun May 04, 2014 11:38 am

Any chance this can be fixed in the next update?
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby sps » Thu May 15, 2014 10:26 am

Hello,
same Prob here. I get no answer either from support or from forum.
It seem´s to me general midiclock prob. Because Miditempo is calculated, so it must have a few bars to calculat the bpm. But thats not the reason for synced loop desaster alone. I never get a stable loop with extern Equipment. the only workaround for is to set the bpm the extern device and disable the clockout in Cubase. Then record the loop and turn the clock on again.
Cubase 6.5, RME HDSP9632, 2x UAD1, XPpro 32bit, SP3, 3GB
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby sdesign » Thu May 15, 2014 11:31 am

It's not a problem with all apps though. BOOM 909! Was released in the AppStore today and it syncs perfectly with Cubasis. I think it's something that can be fixed by third party developers, but I do wonder if there's something that could be done with Cubasis that could help to remedy the issue.
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby nozric » Mon May 19, 2014 7:52 pm

@sdesign - I've found it syncs with Boom 909 quite well too. But check again! Although they sound to be playing in time, the drift is still definitely there. Again, running it alongside something external which is running at the same tempo and Cubasis is still speeding up when using loop points. So even when apps appear to sync, they're just syncing to Cusasis's broken MIDI clock and managing to keep up. It's as though it's missing out a tiny part of the loop each time it repeats.
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby Dave Magoo » Thu May 22, 2014 11:34 am

Interesting to see no comment from the Steinberg team. They must still be investigating....
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby sdesign » Fri May 23, 2014 12:25 am

They don't seem to comment on bugs reports, which I find a little arrogant to be honest.
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby bry » Fri May 23, 2014 2:44 pm

They usually do actually...
iPad Air + iOS 7.1 + Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby sdesign » Fri May 23, 2014 5:31 pm

Not in my experience.
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby Mondwest » Sun May 25, 2014 4:52 pm

Hello
I don't have problem while syncing seekbeats (analog synth drum machine).
Sync is tight ,I can play loop during 30min ,even tweak seekbeats sounds.You re problems
Come from your apps or your iPad probably.
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby Hiltmann » Wed May 28, 2014 5:02 pm

Hi All,

Sorry Customers, I was absence in this forum for cubasis 1.8 automation implementation.

I can confirmed 5 ms cycle jitter only on beat 1 in cycle playback with iElectribe & Cubasis.

It is hardly audible but it's measurably.

Not all cycle jitter with midi clock and other apps is caused by cubasis, but this 5 ms jitter is definitly caused by us.

We are investigate and looking for a fix and we will inform if we have a solution.

Thanks to all the Guys they hear the grass growing.

best jan
Jan Hiltmann, Product Planning / Quality Assurance
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby nozric » Wed May 28, 2014 11:46 pm

Thanks for confirming this, Jan.

Yes, a 5ms jitter on beat 1 when looped would definitely explain why I've been having problems when keeping in time with an external tempo.

Hoping it's possible to fix...
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby sdesign » Sat May 31, 2014 8:01 am

Yes thanks for confirming, glad you are working on fixing this! :-)
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby soundog » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:55 pm

Hiltmann wrote:Hi All,

I can confirmed 5 ms cycle jitter only on beat 1 in cycle playback with iElectribe & Cubasis.

It is hardly audible but it's measurably.

Not all cycle jitter with midi clock and other apps is caused by cubasis, but this 5 ms jitter is definitly caused by us.

We are investigate and looking for a fix and we will inform if we have a solution.

best jan


Has this been fixed? Thanks....
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby sdesign » Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:11 am

Unfortunately not :-(
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Re: Bug Report: MIDI timing issue when using Loop Points

Postby Hiltmann » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:24 am

Hi,

No, currently isn't fixed. We will inform you, if we have a fix.

best
jan
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Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
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