[SOLVED 7.0.3] R-6495 ControlRoom modifies output level

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[SOLVED 7.0.3] R-6495 ControlRoom modifies output level

Postby Davvv » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:09 am

Hello,
When i use the controlRoom , With all the fader put on 0db, when i look the vu-meter of the totalmix (rme), i see a difference between the bus 1 and the controlRoom even if all the fader are put to 0db.


I can see +1,1db on the controlRoom output.
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Re: C7 control room and bus1 have different level !!

Postby TabSel » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:30 am

You probably have setup the RME meters to show RMS instead of peak...
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Re: C7 control room and bus1 have different level !!

Postby Davvv » Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:43 am

No, i don't have change Anything to the totalmix config since i update to C7.
I don't have this différence of level when i use C6.5 !!!
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[R-6495] Control Room undesirably modifies the output level

Postby Plec » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:21 pm

Found this what I'd like to call a bug since both me and a colleague confirmed it independent of one another and is a very peculiar problem with Control Room distorting at the output.

Output of control room distorts with signals above around -1.5dbFS. Confirmed on two separate systems.

1. Open new project with control room active

2. Add signal generator to generate sine wave.

3. As you increase gain you notice that the signal starts to clip at around -1.2dbFS on the master output.

4. To solve this you create a preset in the "Studio" section of VST connections for your Control Room settings and just load in that preset again thus resetting Control Room and the output is clean up to 0.0dbFS after that.

After this, everything is fine until you restart the program where you need to go through that process again. It's not a hardware issue or system specific.
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Re: C7 control room and bus1 have different level !!

Postby Plec » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:25 pm

Does this solve your issue?

viewtopic.php?f=175&t=29804
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Re: C7 control room and bus1 have different level !!

Postby Davvv » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:44 pm

Yes Thank's a lot...
So it was a little issue....

Now it's OK

Thank's
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby arvfur » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:11 pm

Is this the same issue: (I suspect the mixconvert plugin in controlroom chain.)
arvfur wrote:I use mediabay to check my mixes and masters against other mixes. Brilliant tool.
However in Cubase 7, the levels when i preview from mediabay are not the same as in Cubase 6.5 and this confuses me...perhaps I'm doing something wrong in my C7 setup. Can any reproduce?
Try this:
1. Import a hot mastered audiotrack in Cubase, at least reaching -0.3 dB.Preferably a wav. file.
2. Insert the slm128 meter in the controlroom rack.
3. Play the track and check the true peak level in the slm128 meter.
4. Open mediabay and CTRL-click the level fader in the preview window at the bottom of the bay to set it to 0.00 dB.
5. Play the same track as you imported via mediabay and check the true peak level in the slm128 meter.
6. They should be the same, but my aren't....the mediabay plays the track 0.5-0.9-dB louder.
7. Do the same in Cubase 6.5. My peak levels match exactly here.... :?
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby Plec » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:58 pm

Yes, well we have the same issue.

Something that is not supposed to be is happening within Control Room!

Just did a test going the route that you explained, and when I measure the output of my Control Room the level is roughly 1db lower in level than what is sent in, MediaBay or from the Project makes no difference here. But after I reset Control Room in the manner I explained above, by just saving the settings as a preset and reinstating that preset, the output of Control Room then measures correctly and doesn't distort anymore.

If anything, I think this will be a priority to get right. :)
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby arvfur » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:33 pm

Confirmed.
The reinstating of the preset fixes the distortion, but the difference in levels from the stereobus and the mediabay is still flawed....why can't they get the most important things, like consistent and true levels, clean signal etc. right? :evil:
I don't want chord tracks/auto-arrangers/flashy new mixer if I can't trust my tools anymore... for godssakes....how does this kind of crucial errors even get past beta testing?
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby arvfur » Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:59 am

At the end of the day, it's AUDIO we're supposed to be dealing with, right?
When your tool of choice no longer deliver the basic audio functions correctly, it means you can't trust the levels and the signalpath through the program anymore. IMHO this is of utmost importance for any kind of audio work.
If Cubase has been released with basic AUDIO functionality flaws and obvious errors in the signal path regarding levels and distortion, this has serious ramifications: It means that Cubase can't be used for professional work anymore.
The ignorance of this important issue from the majority of the user base here, who complains about fonts/mouse pointers/graphic issues/colors of the meters, shows what the Cubase user base really are made of...as long as it LOOKS good....who the h...cares about the color of the meters if the meter is wrong!
I don't subscribe to that kind of priorities, correct audio functionality will always be at the top of my list.
I honestly don't know about Steinberg's list of priorities any more. Wish I did.
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby arvfur » Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:56 pm

Bump for importance. Everyone else here seems preoccupied with cosmetics.
Last edited by arvfur on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby Plec » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:04 pm

Agreed, how the hell did such a basic flaw get through beta-testing??

Of course a lot of what people complain about is due to preferences and how they're used to working etc... but at least I'm used to having a signal path that works. :)

Can't seem to replicate your issue with MediaBay on this end though. Everything is consistent like that here unless I'm performing the test wrong.
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby johngar » Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:41 pm

Not confirmed here.
I have a clean signal at any level using 100hz,440hz, 1000hz. I did not test 10,000hz cause that just... hurts.
Perhaps there is another common factor between the systems that have the distortion. Soundcard etc. Have you checked different project sample rates?
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby arvfur » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:40 pm

well, I'm on a PC. I see you are on OSX. Lynx 2 soundcard. 24b/44.1 kHz....
Plec's "distortion problem (no bug if not everyone can reproduce?) is 100% reproducable on my system.
I checked my mediabay problem again with testtones and recordings thereof, and all was ok when i did the "load preset" trick in CR before listening in mediabay. Levels were correct again. :D
So we have it narrowed down to Plec's "distortion"-problem if CR preset is not reloaded every session.
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selecting Studio VST connection preset disables cue sends

Postby Mikael » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:24 pm

This is an issue which bothered me a lot already in C6.

When I go to "VST Connections", "Studio" tab, and select a preset for the Studio Connections, all cue sends in the entire project are being disabled.

This happens also when the new preset and the old preset have the same number of busses.

I even can apply one preset, let's call it "Test", then I go into the mixer and enable my cue sends, then I apply the same preset again, and all my cue sends are disabled again.

This behavior is not helpful. If I bring my Notebook to a different audio hardware setup, all I want to have to do is apply a different VST Connections preset and be ready to roll.

But this way, I need to go to my entire Project, manually enabling the appropriate cue sends.

Can this be changed? Prefered way of operation would simply be that cue sends are only being disabled when the corresponding cue buss does no exist in the new preset, otherwise, cue sends should remain enabled.

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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby serenity » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:43 am

I cnfirm that signal on "Control Room" is higher then on "stereo out". On RME DigiCheck show that peaks above 0dB (red). Sound is distorted. So I routing signal to "stereo out" for now.
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby arvfur » Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:56 pm

OK serenity!
Thanks for testing. So now we are at least 4 persons using the ControlRoom in Cubase. :lol:
Would be nice if some more people could test with a Sinewave to check if they have distortion in the last1.2-1.5 dB when raising the level of the test tone to max. To see if this is a common error and if it's hardware/platform related?
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby Patepro » Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:36 pm

Hi,
confirmed - tested it on my system - EMU1820M, i7 2700K ...
Same here. Clips at -1,0 DB/Control room level. With loading preset all behaves normal.
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby arvfur » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:38 pm

So far, only pc problem...can someone on osx check this ?
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby Hippo » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:50 pm

Confirmed here on pc

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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby johngar » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:36 pm

serenity wrote:I cnfirm that signal on "Control Room" is higher then on "stereo out". On RME DigiCheck show that peaks above 0dB (red). Sound is distorted. So I routing signal to "stereo out" for now.

Yes, I also can now confirm this. In the test I did earlier, I did not have the control room output to 0. I thought you were referring to the Master output at 0. I would never even come close to running my control room level that high, that is why i did not notice any distortion. The highest I might go is
-20 to -15.
Anyway, Digicheck confirms that when control room output is at 0, Digicheck shows it is 1.4db or so higher.
And yes this behaviour does not happen when you use the Studio preset.
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby TonyB » Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:55 pm

Another PC user confirming the above. Thanks for posting the workaround.
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby serenity » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:23 am

johngar wrote:And yes this behaviour does not happen when you use the Studio preset.


Thanks for share this. Where can I find and use "Studio preset" ?
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby Sherz » Mon Dec 10, 2012 12:52 am

Ahhh, Interesting to read this... I thought something was not right... and spent ages trying to figure out what was going on. This helps explain it...
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Re: Bug in Control Room, distortion at output confirmed!

Postby Frankky » Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:42 am

Hi,

I have the exact same problem.

The distortion disappears when I disable the Control Room and use direct outputs.

Here my setting:
Audio card: Mbox 3 Pro (driver: 1.0.19, firmware: 1.0.3)
Processor: Intel Quad-Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz
Motherboard: ASRock Z68 PROFESSIONAL GEN3 LGA 1155 Intel Z68 HDMI
RAM: 32 RAM (4x 8GB of 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM)
Hard drive: only SSD drives (SATA 2 and 3)
Windows 7 Professional

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