[ISSUES] VST performance related

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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby ostrovitch » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:03 pm

Me too I have this issue with cubase 7.0.1 and windows 7 64bits.
I noticed when I disable Asio Guard, things seem become more steady.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby curteye » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:08 pm

Aloha guys,

So far all is well here using C7 on desktop
and laptop. (mac 64 bit/see sig)

Audio/MIDI:
Yamaha/Steinberg n12

Plugs:
NI/SampleTank/Steinberg

Most projects are using a lil bit more cpu juice
compared to C6.5 but so far no real probs.

HTH
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby Conman » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:10 pm

Seems that the people who know how to give system specs when they need to are the ones without any problems.
If you don't give any clues other than along the lines of "The wheel's fallen off!" then the guys at the helping end don't have a clue as to how to help you. They may even think you haven't got a clue about computers. :roll:
They may even think you're a gang of (very low post count, "I've used Cubase for decades, honest, guv.") trolls.

Every major version update has one of these "Perfect on the last version, don't work on this one..." threads. All the same. Low post count and long-time users. :?:

This is advice, not criticism. If the problem is real you may get it fixed quicker with a little attention to a businesslike approach rather than an irate customer taking the dress back to the shop because it doesn't fit.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby D3 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:43 pm

Here You are, Conman, with same old mantra again. :|

The Fact is, C7 is obviously "eating" lots of resources because of that extensive graphics. The software is simple underdeveloped.

It look gorgeous but ...maybe we all should buy 1GB gamer's graphic cards (mine is ATI Sapphire HD 6770, 512 MB, but still having spikes and drops)
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby gianni » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:47 pm

anttir wrote:You people who have problems, are you running C7 in 34bit or 64bit mode?...Also, which OSX (mac users)


Both (in my case) in Win 7 64
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby anttir » Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:52 pm

D3 wrote:Here You are, Conman, with same old mantra again. :|

The Fact is, C7 is obviously "eating" lots of resources because of that extensive graphics. The software is simple underdeveloped.

It look gorgeous but ...maybe we all should buy 1GB gamer's graphic cards (mine is ATI Sapphire HD 6770, 512 MB, but still having spikes and drops)


Of course new software eats up more resources, that's quite of an obvious thing. But if you call a car repair shop and say that "I have a Mercedes and it doesn't work like my old Mercedes" there's not much they can answer.

In order to get answers faster people need to be more specific. I mean, especially with Windows machines with endless amount of hardware possibilities starting from motherboards their chips all the way to soundcards etc. there's quite a load of different possible options for the cause of the problem.

That's why the more specific you are, the easier you get proper answers. And yeah, I'm newbie on this forum but I've been fooling around with computers and music various software for 10 years and I've found this to be easiest way to get the problem solved no matter what software / hardware :)

For starters, if it would be because of GPU, it would quite likely cause slow screen movement rather than CPU spikes.

gianni wrote:
anttir wrote:You people who have problems, are you running C7 in 34bit or 64bit mode?...Also, which OSX (mac users)


Both (in my case) in Win 7 64

I read today that due to not nearly all the plugins being natively 64bit, it needs somekind of porting of the plugins in order to work properly and that already might cause some issues. I would try at least to run it in 32bit mode even if the OS is 64bit. Not saying that it's meant to be run on 32bit mode but for the sake of acute usability it's worth a try at least.

But like said, I'm new to C7, just installed it today. Last Cubase I used before this was SX 3 in WinXP so there has been quite much progress and changes since that version so I'm not trying to be a besserwisser here by any means, just trying to help :)
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby goddfodder » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:18 pm

I noticed within about 5 mins of install that my ASIO meter, on a heavily loaded project Ive been working on (on 6 / 6.5) is considerably higher that what it was. Its not at problem level yet, but its over the half way mark which before it was around a quarter or less.
To an extent I guess this is to be expected. A platform which does considerable more in my mind would probably demand more performance wise. I mean you can hope for greater efficiency. But C7 is doing a lot more than 6.


Its not good though. Even on a modern and highly capable system, we are now testing the boundaries of what they can do.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby gianni » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:25 pm

anttir wrote:I read today that due to not nearly all the plugins being natively 64bit, it needs somekind of porting of the plugins in order to work properly and that already might cause some issues.


In my case I was careful not to use bridged plugins. Only 32 bit plugins (not jbridged 32 to 32) for the test in Cubase 32 bit, and only 64 bit plugins for the test in Cubase 64 bit.

D3 wrote:maybe we all should buy 1GB gamer's graphic cards


If someone told me that the problem can be solved in this way, I would run to buy a new GPU, because after trying cubase 7 is really hard (for me) to go back to work in cubase 6 ...
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby Conman » Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:05 pm

D3 wrote:Here You are, Conman, with same old mantra again. :|

The Fact is, C7 is obviously "eating" lots of resources because of that extensive graphics. The software is simple underdeveloped.

It look gorgeous but ...maybe we all should buy 1GB gamer's graphic cards (mine is ATI Sapphire HD 6770, 512 MB, but still having spikes and drops)


Yes, because no-one seems to learn about common sense fault reporting. I'm not saying don't report it just be a bit more forthcoming with information and you'll get help sooner.
It's not "eating resources" or "underdeveloped" here. I'm using a fairly basic graphics card about the same as yours. My C7, and thousands of others run just fine. FACT!
And again I do not PERSONALLY attack others even if I do think they don't come up to my own low standards.

Could just be that you've all not obtained the latest eLCC software? Just a guess so don't take it as read on my part. Happened to me but I just looked around and found that particular answer to MY problem without making a great war dance about trashing C7 forever.
Have all of you checked your Devices to see if Cubase is set to / loading / holding onto the correct Device driver for instance? Can happen with usb leads being loose.
Only been two weeks, I still haven't used C7 in anger yet as I'm still evaluating and making sure I know all the settings. Even if I do find something I think is serious it's still too soon to berate the company for it before I find it's a new setting I've missed.
Get REAL.

btw: Setting or 128 or even 64 should work fine so unlikely to be that unless there's a driver conflict happening. Gianni was that? Can happen with a new version but even then it wouldn't matter what the sample rate was.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby gianni » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:32 pm

Conman wrote:btw: Setting or 128 or even 64 should work fine so unlikely to be that unless there's a driver conflict happening. Gianni was that? Can happen with a new version but even then it wouldn't matter what the sample rate was.


I tried all the buffer sizes and sample rates : when spikes begin....are simply there and I have to restart the PC.

A driver conflict? Unfortunately my computer skills (since Windows 2000, before I used a Power Mac 8600...and Atari) are just Cubase related and I have no skills to find a driver conflict.

I tried everything I can imagine in Cubase and in the audio card, I also tried the Generic Low Latency driver, I tried the windows "no visual fx" thing, I tried the "programs/background services" priority, I tried the safe start...and more.

I only have to try to activate Hyper-Threading in the BIOS, but I'm scared about this, first beacuse a lot of plugins will be not authorized with Hyper-Threading enabled, and second when I tested this DAW I decided to turn HT off because I had a better ASIO behaviour in Cubase 6.

One very important thing: after restarting the PC the real-time peak meter is very stable, I can work without spikes, but after a while spikes begin and I really don't know what is triggering this problem.

I suppose it's a graphic related problem (driver? hardware?) just because it happens after opening the Channel settings window and plugins/instruments GUIs, and I see that the ASIO load is reduced when the Channel settings window is closed; but it is only a guess, I do not have the skills to be able to say this, it's just what I see.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby Graham_Simmonds » Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:29 pm

I was having very similar issues to you guys with Cubase 6.5. I use EastWest plugins a lot (I have Hollywood Strings, Brass, QL Spaces etc). Cubase just did not work with Play when you started to load in the really large samples and I would get the pops, bangs and all that stuff. Plus the next time I tried to load Cubase it would invariably crash before it had completed loading the samples.

As I love working with Cubase my solution having researched my issues was that I bought Vienna Ensemble Pro 5. This is a simply amazing piece of software which I use on the same PC as Cubase. I load virtually everything into it (both 32 bit and 64 bit plugins) and get Cubase to connect to it. I seem to be able to load as much as I like in to it and it never crashes. QL Spaces is the only software that seems to occasionally upset the apple cart but the brilliant thing is that as it is isolated from Cubase I don't get crashing projects. I can also isolate the instance IN VEP that is causing me issues so that I can get the rest of the plugins up and running. The other thing I should say is that I work a lot in 5.1 surround sound which adds extra load.

As an example my last project has nearly 25Gb of samples loaded into memory and the ASIO meter still runs under 50% with no glitching whatsoever using C7.

I know people will say that Cubase should work without VEP 5 but it made such a fundamental difference to my enjoyment of music making that I cannot recommend it highly enough. Plus I can connect up to 2 other PCs remotely with it if I want to. If you are having performance and crashing issues which are driving you mad buy it; it is worth every penny.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby curteye » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:34 pm

anttir wrote:besserwisser :)


Kool word. My dad used it. nice to 'read' it.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby springtide » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:40 pm

In my case I'm still using 32-bit mode. My performance meters never go beyond 25-30%, yet the red peak indicator invariably comes on. I can restart the computer (specs in my sig below), open Cubase and just hit Cancel instead of opening a project, and the peak indicator is lit up already. This makes me believe it has nothing to do with how many tracks, VSTi's, effects or anything else about the project. I tried disabling ASIO Guard but it made no difference. It seems to happen less the higher the buffer setting but I really don't want to go any higher than 256 because that already pushes latency to 12ms.

About the graphic interface as a suspect, I do notice that when it starts to bog down, the playback changes from smooth to jittery. The audio gets ahead of the playback/record head, and if I hit the space bar to stop it actually takes a few seconds to respond and stop.

I'm not trashing Cubase or Steinberg. I'm simply having problems with the new release that I didn't have before and that render the program almost useless - as in recording a good performance only to have a drop-out in the middle of it. And I am hoping for a solution sooner than later.
Last edited by springtide on Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby musicbeat » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:00 am

I rolled back to C7 because C7.0.1 became unbearable.........especially when my plugs stopped initializing and I had constant computer freezes while loading.

Now, at least I can work........I'm back to 1/4 to 1/3 spikes and most things are playing as usual.

Looking forward to the new update.....but no more "betas" or "pre-beta's" for me, not from Steiny, anyway; that's for sure!

You guys will have to work it out! Lol
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby HarrySound » Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:23 am

Things are goping to be so different for all of us.
I use alot of plugins that process real audio so i'm going to be hammering my ASIO hard.
I find the Asio guard actually works, though they recommend turning off the hyper threading if you have it.
I like to leave it on though.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby Elektrobolt » Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:13 am

gianni wrote:One very important thing: after restarting the PC the real-time peak meter is very stable, I can work without spikes, but after a while spikes begin and I really don't know what is triggering this problem.

I suppose it's a graphic related problem (driver? hardware?) just because it happens after opening the Channel settings window and plugins/instruments GUIs, and I see that the ASIO load is reduced when the Channel settings window is closed; but it is only a guess, I do not have the skills to be able to say this, it's just what I see.

I am sure that opening various windows will increase the need for more resources.

Since you have a repeatable sort of problem, maybe you can track this down. Open a blank project after reboot, press F12 (Perf. Meter) and try each plugin you own, one at the time. See if ALL of them cause it or just a few.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby singasongalongsam » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:01 am

Ya im another Cubase 7 user that has given up and gone back to 6.5 because of the same issues. projects that were running fine at 512 in 6.5 are popping and clicking in even 1024 in cubase 7. not stable enough for my liking and Automap has not done an update to setup cubsase 7 yet so im getting conflicts and error messages as well with sticky pots and sliders. i like the idea of cubase 7's new mixer ect. but im mad i wasted so much time experimenting trying to get it to work when i could have been writing music. i also have a really fast system and a nice sound card with everything updated. cubase is all i know but if i didn't have cubase 6.5 to turn back to i would have switched boat really fast. i hope cubase is taking a good look at fixing this as soon as possible. i want to know its going to work stable before i waste anymore time on Cubase SLeVenmetimbers.... :roll:


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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby sensorychaos » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:31 am

I personally do not experience any click, stutter and such.
Cubase 7 has been able to handle my heaviest 6.5 projects without any problem.
Maybe the 3960x makes the difference...I don't know.
I have quite a bunch of tools to reduce my dpc latency as well (tune up 2013 notably)... so maybe that the fact that my dpc is very very low + the fact i have a really fast cpu render it stable?
It's just a supposition....

Maybe check this guys:

It is really a clever application: it will tell you which is (are) the faulty process(es) wich render(s) your machine glitchy
Maybe it will be more usefull for people who want to build a new system and optimize thier machine than people who upgrade from cubase 6.5 to 7 (as 6.5 seems to be ok but not the same projects in 7...)
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon (w7/8 -- 32/64)

Have a check...for those who don't know it.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby orchetect » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:58 am

I can vouch for VE Pro as well, but I don't personally need to use it any more.

My experience is that C7 without ASIO-Guard performs about the same as C6.5. No performance weirdness crept up. If you're having new stability troubles I'm inclined to think it's something going on with your particular system.
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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby gianni » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:13 pm

Elektrobolt wrote:Since you have a repeatable sort of problem, maybe you can track this down. Open a blank project after reboot, press F12 (Perf. Meter) and try each plugin you own, one at the time. See if ALL of them cause it or just a few.


One by one...I can't; tons of plugins here; unfortunately (for me) I'll finish when Cubase 8 will be ready.

But you are right, thanks, the problem is triggered by certain plugins.

One example (not for a real use in music) just to test the ASIO behaviour and stress the cpu:

-create a stereo track with Steinberg test generator plugin in insert
-insert iZotope Ozone 5 advanced with all modules actived (IRC III mode in the maximizer window) in the same channel (or in the master channel)
-duplicate Ozone 5 to another insert slot
-now turn on and off one Ozone 5 instance

Surprise!!!!

-one active instance = average load 30%, real-time peak 45% (with buffer size 256)
-two active instances = average load 60%, real-time peak 60%

But half of the times when I activate the plugin, the real-time peak goes to 90%.

This sounds really strange to me and happens with ASIO guard on and ASIO guard off.

Who wants to test can try the attacched song.
Attachments
CUBASE 7 ASIO TEST OZONE 5 ADV.zip
(12.03 KiB) Downloaded 21 times
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Re: VST performance

Postby Mindshade » Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:49 pm

You can try disable th2 aswell.. Dont have to be the reason but I and some others been having problems with it in 64bit version. Not the same issue but it doenst work properly when loaded into a start template on a input bus.. May be other issues aswell so try loading without it.. doesnt hurt..

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Re: C7 CPU spikes / Unusable

Postby braineeter » Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:12 pm

I sympathize if you're having performance problems (could say that pretty much verbatim ina viagra forum) ; i can imagine how frustrating it is.

FWIW, upon first installing Cubase 7.0, i was seeing performance spikes into the red in newly-created projects with only three or four VSTi's. Any large projects that i managed to open in V 7.0 -- projects that were fine in v6.5 -- actually caused occasional drop outs. All of this was very disheartening, because v5 - v6.5 worked flawlessly for me (never had v4).

The eLicenser update from last week seemed to have solved many of the performance problems i experienced, but the trick is that i had to make sure that some of the eLicenser .dll's in C:/windows were actually being updated -- turns out that they weren't, as mentioned in a couple Cubase 7 threads. These threads talk about either totally uninstalling the previous eLicenser version before putting in the new one or, alternatively, installing the new version in overwrite mode.

Since installing Cubase 7.0.1 (which i believe comes with yet another eLicenser update), systerm performance seems pretty much entirely back to v6.5 standards. This is for an x64 Win7 systems btw (w/ an i5, a bunch of RAM and an SSD system disk); no idea whether this eLicenser update biz means anything to Mac guys, though it does seem worth a try.

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Re: VST performance issues

Postby springtide » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:57 pm

Seems to be getting worse. Last night I was listening to a playback of a project with maybe a half dozen or so audio tracks, very few inserts. At one point the auto scroll started getting choppy, then it froze altogether. The music continued to play for a bit, but the workspace display did not advance. Then the audio went silent. I stopped playback, waited a few seconds, then tried to play again. No sound. I ended up having to restart the computer to get the sound back. Now that's performance!
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Re: VST performance issues

Postby springtide » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:07 pm

I can't even get my signature to update. I changed "Cubase 6.5" to "Cubase 7" in My Steinberg but it's not updating.
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Re: VST performance issues

Postby Elektrobolt » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:48 am

I have found that unfortunately the TAL-U-NO-LX (v2) is a performance hog in Cubase 7. I really like this synthesizer which is a (a really good) Juno-106 emulator. I haven't had time to look into if is certain programs or the entire plugin itself.

(Been spending time with family and friends preparing for x-mas, fortunately no performance issues there.. phew! ;))
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