Delete Doubles Not Working?

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Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby suntower » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:01 pm

Hi,

When I record a MIDI track in 'All Channels', my old MIDI controller sometimes sends out duplicate notes.

I've tried using Delete Doubles without success. I have -treble- checked in the List Editor that the notes are -truly- duplicate---channel, start, end, length and it just won't work reliably.

Is there some 'trick' or is it a known bug?

Or perhaps someone can suggest a way to do the same thing in Logical Editor?

TIA,

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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby Sherz » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:17 am

The function I use with consistent success is 'Delete Overlaps (Mono)'. Never understood why but 'Delete Doubles' didn't seem to do what I expected. However, I also then often have to follow that delete overlaps with a delete short notes because the first process often seemed to leave behind very short fragments. All rather annoying really. :?
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby Guest » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:39 am

Keyboard set to Local Off? Using the specific MIDI port and not "All"? Seen the MIDI timing link in my sig.?
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby suntower » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:58 am

Sherz wrote:The function I use with consistent success is 'Delete Overlaps (Mono)'. Never understood why but 'Delete Doubles' didn't seem to do what I expected. However, I also then often have to follow that delete overlaps with a delete short notes because the first process often seemed to leave behind very short fragments. All rather annoying really. :?


Thanks. I tried that, and it -does- remove some obvious 'doubles' but... as you say... instead of totally removing some duplicate notes, it shortened them to fragments.

I'm surprised that something so basic doesn't work reliably.

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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby jaslan » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:39 pm

If your controller is sending on multiple ports, the events are probably getting reported at very slightly different times to Cubase. If you zoom in on the MIDI events, you may see they they are not EXACT duplicates which means the delete doubles will not work.
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby suntower » Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:51 pm

jaslan wrote:If your controller is sending on multiple ports, the events are probably getting reported at very slightly different times to Cubase. If you zoom in on the MIDI events, you may see they they are not EXACT duplicates which means the delete doubles will not work.
HTH
J.L.


I'd buy that except that when I go into List Editor it shows the start and end times as identical. If those #s are the same, then I submit Delete Doubles should consider them 'doubles' and delete them.

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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby curteye » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:51 pm

Aloha guys,

There was another thread about this a few months back
with the same general conclusion. ???????

When the 'Delete Doubles' function does work properly I wish it
would give info on what/how many/where events were
deleted.

On the 'Delete Short Notes' feature:

As a MIDI guitarist this feature is a must have.

In order for MIDI guitar to 'track' properly (for input
into a DAW), the controller will put out tons and tons
of useless MIDI crap with much of it 'doubled'.

The DSN function helps to strip away the fat and
leave the lean.

DSN was there when Cubase was a MIDI only programme
and is a special and unique tool for MIDI guitar use.
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby Guest » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:53 pm

"Delete doubles" has never worked properly (since SX3 at least) :(
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Totally unreliable.

+1 for fixing it, I end up with doubles a lot as a result of glueing together MIDI parts (where notes that were languishing outside the event (even muted ones) become part of the event again after the glue is done... :? )
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby Siseneg » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm

Wow, I finally noticed why my piano was sounding thin, every note was doubled. Erase double didn't work and overlaps left small notes everywhere... now I have hundreds of notes to delete!! Which is quicker, re-recording or deleting? :evil:
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby Split » Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:30 pm

Siseneg wrote:Wow, I finally noticed why my piano was sounding thin, every note was doubled. Erase double didn't work and overlaps left small notes everywhere... now I have hundreds of notes to delete!! Which is quicker, re-recording or deleting? :evil:


Logical editor, set to select/delete very short notes.
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby Guest » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:25 pm

I bet you 10 quid this still isn't fixed in C7.
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby suntower » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:41 pm

OldFecker wrote:I bet you 10 quid this still isn't fixed in C7.


You're a savvy old fecker.

And AFA 'the Logical Editor trick'... personally, I've only gotten that to work if the 'doubles' in question are of different lengths. Sadly, in my case, they are not. When my MIDI controller outputs on two channels at once, the doubles really -are- doubles. Exact same length, timing, etc.

This is -totally- insulting to the highly skilled devs @ SB, but at this point, a modest bit of slagging is warranted, given that these kinds of MIDI function bugs have been going on for -years- (eg. try transposing a group of notes by key.) It shouldn't be rocket science to find the bit of code that looks vaguely like:

for( x = 1 to # of notes in event) {
if( x.length == (x+1).length && x.pitch == (x+1).pitch ) {
delete( (x+1) )
x++ }
}

...and just -fix- it.

It's not like these things are particularly hard to replicate. And the really frustrating thing is that if one takes the time to fill out a Support Ticket? You'd have better luck hearing back from a message in a bottle.

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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby N8 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:58 pm

Funny how the Devs are blamed for user ignorance. ;) :roll:
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby alexis » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:06 pm

Error - posted in wrong thread -
Last edited by alexis on Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby N8 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:07 pm

alexis wrote:I think you guys may be a little bit off here. No blame was made in my post, simply observing that our forum showed it was hard for a fair amount of users to get Control Room up and running correctly on their systems. Just trying to get some advice on not making the same mistakes myself.

No aspersions implied, and apologies for anything I wrote that made it seem otherwise.

Thanks -


You're off your beam. What has control room have anything to do with this thread? :roll:
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby alexis » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:11 pm

N8 wrote:
You're off your beam. What has control room have anything to do with this thread? :roll:


Whoops, so sorry, posted in the wrong thread, though I have no idea how it got posted in this one! Duly deleted -
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby Arjan P » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:17 pm

N8 wrote:Funny how the Devs are blamed for user ignorance. ;) :roll:

My thoughts exactly.
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby suntower » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:46 pm

Arjan P wrote:
N8 wrote:Funny how the Devs are blamed for user ignorance. ;) :roll:

My thoughts exactly.


Bollocks. The function has not work as advertised for years. Some may not appreciate the presentation, but that's another story.

I well understand that for some any grousing beyond a certain point equates with 'Steinberg Bashing', but a bug is a bug. Whether or not users should 'complain less and appreciate more' is always open to discussion. I for one don't feel the need to preface every piece of constructive criticism with, "I LOVE you, but..." Doesn't help with loved ones either. Either they feel the gratitude or they don't. I've used Cubase for 13 years and would not continue to do so if it wasn't a good product.

This is a support forum. Not a testimonial forum.

As a customer of mine told me many years ago when -I- felt overly bashed: "Don't take it personally. You're like the power company. We -depend- on you. The only time we call you is when we're upset. How many people do -you- know who fall on their knees with thankfulness every time they turn on the lights. Get over it. It's a compliment. If you really want to feel the love? Your goal should be to make your product so reliable that you -never- hear from us. If you need more money to provide better service, let's talk. But there's no point in resenting this. Everyone feels that way about the power company."
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby N8 » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:49 pm

It's not a bug if it's user error. :roll:
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby Guest » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:05 am

Sometimes it works, but then other times under identical circumstances it does not.

Therefore, it is a bug.

It has never worked reliably in all my history of cubase, which goes back to SX3.
Even with notes whose position and length parameters are absolutely identical, the doubles are sometimes not deleted.

And because it doesn't tell you how many doubles were deleted, the only way to check is to peek behind each of the MIDI notes in turn, to see if the notes underneath have gone. Such a waste of time!
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby Arjan P » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:28 am

Simple remedy: don't send out double notes. I've used Cubase since Atari days and never had this problem.
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby suntower » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:40 am

Arjan P wrote:Simple remedy: don't send out double notes. I've used Cubase since Atari days and never had this problem.


1. Doctor, doctor. It hurts when I do this.

2. Good for you.

Still a bug.

I recognise it's harder to be empathetic unless it's happening to -you-. Not trying to be argumentative, but there's a difference between reporting/campaigning for fixes to long-standing issues (as I try to do) and 'toxic bashing', which I definitely try not to do. All software companies would rather forget about little nigglies. The more time goes by? The less they wanna revisit. But functions like this matter (to me anyways.) The occasional reminder is not a bad thing... even if the chances of getting it looked at get smaller with each passing year.

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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby Merayah » Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:46 am

Would be great when double notes appear the same way as the visualisation of overlapping parts in the arrange window :)
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby N8 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:06 am

If it's a bug, why does it happen to you and not me? :roll:

Specific setting that causes it. :idea:
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Re: Delete Doubles Not Working?

Postby suntower » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:15 am

Merayah wrote:Would be great when double notes appear the same way as the visualisation of overlapping parts in the arrange window :)


Yes. If there was some colour variation if two notes were on top of one another that -would- help. But since both notes have the same velocity and pitch there's no way to discriminate.

Here's a typical case that can easily occur even if you don't have a problem with yer keyboard:

You create several drum parts on different lanes. You decide to combine them together onto a single track. It might -easily- happen that there are overlapping kick drum or hat notes in random spots. Very hard to spot while a full drum set is playing. All you can tell is that there are -some- spots that just don't sound right.

Same thing with string or brass... you start out writing several monophonic lines and then combine them onto a single 'trumpets' track. Certain notes sound 'wrong', so you keep fiddling with velocity or =whatever=, not realising that there's -another- note behind the one you're editing.

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