Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby ffg » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:51 am

Norbury Brook wrote:I'm an rme owner but no longer user since getting my MR units. Without the control room don't you have to route every cubase Chanel to a separate output if you want to have different cue mixes via total mix?


With the control room and steinberg hardware you get easy cue mixes with zero latency with on board dsp FX.



MC

Agreed, if I had steinberg hardware I would probably use the headphone mixes in Cubase Control room. AFAIK the Steinberg hardware is the ONLY way to get low/zero latency monitoring directly from Cubase on Mac.

For those who may be struggling with TotalMix's interface - yes, it is extremely complex, which reflects its power and flexibility. Luckily, they give you a shortcut, the Submix View.

Really, don't try to understand Totalmix without activating this little button, it's just too confusing.

In Submix View, the whole view relates only to one pair of outputs (the bottom of the three rows of faders). Click on the pair you want to see and mix to.

Then you set levels from your inputs (top row) and from your Cubase outputs (middle row) to those two outputs.

Simples.

Then move on to the next pair of outputs.

You can easily send , say different levels of reverb, or completely different mixes, to each musician. Of course you need enough DA outputs to actually route these mixes - I have 16 outputs dedicated to studio headphone mixes (8 stereo mixes, driving 2 x 4 channel headphone amps.

It does get pretty complicated to send this many mixes into the studio, but it works. IMHO getting good headphone mixes is the single most important factor in getting the talent to play at their best. It's worth spending time on.

As Woodcrest says above, you can minimise monitoring latency in Cubase using the Constrain Delay Comp button, but it's always there to a greater or lesser extent. But worse, hitting this button disables the plug-ins on groups and this seriously messes with the mix, which is a bit of a pain.

Personally, I prefer not to have to deal with latency delays at all by doing all the monitoring through Totalmix. the only time I have to deal with it is when someone needs to play a VSTi - then I use small buffers and Constrain DC just for the recording, then switch it back on again after.

Note the above description of sending different mixes to each musician relates to recording several musicinas live in the studio. I'm not talking about sending different Cubase mixes to several headphones - that's possible with Total Mix, but as Norbury Brook says, you would need to route every Cubase channel (or at least the groups/stems) out of separate Cubase outputs. In reality, I rarely record more than one overdub at once, so it doesn't arise.

This is my studio workflow (or part of it) - it won't suit everyone. Try it if you like it.
best

David

I'm going to to let the situation mature...

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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby Home Studio 87 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:08 am

and another tips for use with RME Total Mix with Direct Monitoring & Studio Send :

Control Room Direct Monitoring
First, turn on the control room section if it's not already on. Then turn on
direct monitoring. Set your buffers high... like 1024 so you will be able to
tell that you are still getting zero latency. By the way, ADM = (Asio Direct
Monitoring).
Now in the control room create 4 stereo Studio Sends. Assign each of them to a
hardware output on the RME card that you aren't using for anything else. Here is
how I have mine setup for example:
Be sure your Stereo out of the mixer device outputs is either "not assigned", or
not routed to any of the outputs listed below.
Control Room Speaker Out 1: Fireface Out 1 & 2
Control Room Speaker Out 2: Fireface Out 3 & 4
Studio 1 Out: Fireface 5 & 6
Studio 2 Out: Fireface 7 & 8
Studio 3 Out: Fireface 9 & 10
Studio 4 Out: Fireface 11 & 12
Ok. Now, create say.... 24 mono tracks in the mixer. Be sure you have 24 inputs
created in the input devices setup with a different hardware input assigned to
each one. I put FF 1 on mono 1, FF2 on mono 2, etc.. Click on the first track in
the mixer and hold down shift, then click on the last track. They will all then
be highlighted. Now, holding shift again, set the input of channel 1 to input 1.
You will see all the selected channels assign in ascending order starting at the
first input you selected on the first channel. VERY slick!
Now, in the control room section, be sure you have all the available panels
showing (right click on the control room and under view, check all the options).
Now, be sure that all 24 of your channels are still highlighted. In the far left
side of the control room mixer, right click and a menu will pop up. Click
enabled all studio sends. It will ask you if you are sure, say yes. Then right
click in the same spot and click use mixer settings for all studio sends. This
will take the mix you currently have on the main faders and re-create it on all
the studio sends! You can do the same things with pans if you like. Now create a
folder track. Drag all the tracks in the folder track. Now you can arm/disarm
them all at once quite easily.
I recommend you now view the main mixer in expanded mode so you can see all the
Studio Send levels above the main mixer. Click on the "star" so you can see the
studio sends. They should all be on, set to pre-fader, and matching the mixer
settings.
Now, open the total mix window. Set it to always on top so it doesn't go away
while you expirament with this. Be sure your view is ALSO set to "submix" view.
First, click in the top row of Total Mix (the box right below the faders the
outputs you have your Monitor One outputs set to (1 & 2 in my example above). Be
sure you have monitor one selected also in the control room. Now, toggle the
tracks in and out of record. You should see the total mix faders jump to the
same level setting as the Cubase/Nuendo faders when you do this.. assuming you
have selected the same output channels these faders are assigned to in Total
Mix. While record enabled... change the levels/pans in the Cubase/Nuendo mixer.
You will see the faders in Total Mix move to match! This has always worked like
this.
Now... here is the amazingly cool part. In the top row of Total Mix, now change
the outputs to the outputs you have assigned to the first Studio Send (5 & 6 in
my example above). Now, toggle the tracks in and out of record. You should see
the faders in total mix jump to these settings in the Cubase/Nuendo mixer HERE
as well! While record enabled... move the slider for output level on one of the
tracks for Studio Send 1. You will see the fader in Total Mix move to match!
Same with pans! This works for all 4 Studio sends.
The only other thing you need to be sure is that the pan law in the Total Mix
mixer, and the Pan law in Cubase/Nuendo are set the same. Otherwise playback and
record levels won't match exactly.
This works for all the listen options in the control room. It changes when you
change speaker outputs, etc., etc., etc.,.
Hope this helps!
machine style, etc... Works like a charm.
this was posted by someone but I don't remember who ! sorry
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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby ffg » Fri Apr 20, 2012 12:25 pm

HS87

You Windows guys don't know how lucky you are. ADM isn't implemented for Mac - only using Steinberg hardware. So this method doesn't work for us, unfortunately...
best

David

I'm going to to let the situation mature...

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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby Home Studio 87 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:50 pm

sorry
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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby HughH » Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:43 pm

I was going to mention the Multiple Direct Monitoring thing, but Home Studio 87 beat me to it. And with a wonderful and clear step by step explanation, to boot. Excellent!

The upshot, though, is that Cubase is capable of controlling multiple Direct Monitoring feeds in your hardware, at least with RME and Steinberg units.
It's been that way for a number of years. A very nice undocumented feature.

You could, if you have enough I/O and some external Verb unit, even wet your mic inputs to the headphone outputs. These routes will not be affected by the ADM control. Of course, the reverb will still be active (on the mic inputs) when playing back your recordings.
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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby Swurveman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:09 pm

Thank you Home Studio 87 for your detailed description of how to setup Direct Monitoring with Cubase and TotalMix. I set up a template for the use of your method.
Last edited by Swurveman on Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby MrSoundman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:26 pm

.... I can see you're well on the way to becoming a TotalMix convert, no? :) Just to add the final polish, try out Terry Gorle's wonderful custom skins!
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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby Swurveman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:18 pm

MrSoundman wrote:.... I can see you're well on the way to becoming a TotalMix convert, no? :) Just to add the final polish, try out Terry Gorle's wonderful custom skins!


Thanks for the tip MrSoundman.

Do you mix with TotalMix as well as routing cue mixes for overdubs and live recording ?
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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby MrSoundman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:47 pm

Swurveman wrote:Do you mix with TotalMix as well as routing cue mixes for overdubs and live recording ?
No, TotalMix for routing and to integrate external hardware; mix in Cubase and mastering/restoration with WaveLab. I've got the RayDAT so I can chop and change analogue bits without having to change drivers or worry about ASIO stability, plus it keeps all analogue signals outside the computer.
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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby Norbury Brook » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:13 pm

LOL for years when people used to say macs were the best platform for music I always smiled to myself and thought 'then why don't they do direct monitoring then?' as I went back to my windows machine with DM :D



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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby Swurveman » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:14 pm

Home Studio 87 wrote:Now... here is the amazingly cool part. In the top row of Total Mix, now change
the outputs to the outputs you have assigned to the first Studio Send (5 & 6 in
my example above). Now, toggle the tracks in and out of record. You should see
the faders in total mix jump to these settings in the Cubase/Nuendo mixer HERE
as well! While record enabled... move the slider for output level on one of the
tracks for Studio Send 1. You will see the fader in Total Mix move to match!
Same with pans! This works for all 4 Studio sends.


Unfortunately, I spoke too soon:

When I toggle in and out of record mode, my faders only work with TotalMix when Cubase is stopped. When I run the Cubase Transport to hear playback, the TotalMix faders jump back down to zero gain. The same is true with my Studio Sends and panning: They only respond to Direct Monitoring when the transport is stopped.

Any thoughts on why this is happening?
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Re: Question for RME HDSP-TotalMix users

Postby ronaudio » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:32 am

Tomorrow i will receive the RME Ufx. I used to work with Cubase and RME Multiface (I) since more then 12 years.
I never had Trouble with RME (but with Cubase ;)).
One Thing i realised by Figuring out my possibel Setups, with my new Ufx. Ist my cognition that you still have a short Latency about 0.5 and 1 MS, even you go Analog In and Directly (trough Totalmix) Analog Out, cause they have to digitalise the Signal to Route, Pan and Level the Signal.
http://www.rme-audio.de/download/fface_ufx_e.pdf
Seite 78
41. Diagrams
41.1 Block Diagram Fireface UFX

So for me (dont know how ist for you), the only one Solution to Cue the Signals without any! Latency, is to have integrated "Playback Cannels" on your Pre`s, and/or Splitting the Signal before you go in Totalmix or any digital Router.
I know ...But then it feels like a Metalstring in Magnetic Field that reacts together with the same System but oppsosit way (Amp). And your Voice dosnt Sounds higher or lower a bit , cause Phasing Problems. You dont hear it, but you feel it. thats my experience.



After Configuring my Ufx in my Setup, my Intonation are mutch better, cause i dont have Latency and Phase Issues.

Ron :D

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