WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

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WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby simple2nes » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:26 am

Hi everyone , i been working with Cubase for as long as 7 years , and i always noticed that my mixes lacked the stereo image . now i been Mixing for 5 years , and i been panning , using stereo enahncer , delaying the audio files , ETC.
now a friend who just started to use Ableton , do the same pan set ups, and for some reason his mixes come out with more stereo information .
he told me that the pan Law in Ableton is - 6 db ,so i changed the pan law, but the results are not good enough .
any suggestions ? i been pulling my hair trying to figure it out how to make my stereo wider? i don't want to switch to ableton please. help me 1!!
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby thinkingcap » Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:11 am

simple2nes wrote:Hi everyone , i been working with Cubase for as long as 7 years , and i always noticed that my mixes lacked the stereo image . now i been Mixing for 5 years , and i been panning , using stereo enahncer , delaying the audio files , ETC.
now a friend who just started to use Ableton , do the same pan set ups, and for some reason his mixes come out with more stereo information .
he told me that the pan Law in Ableton is - 6 db ,so i changed the pan law, but the results are not good enough .
any suggestions ? i been pulling my hair trying to figure it out how to make my stereo wider? i don't want to switch to ableton please. help me 1!!

If you´re having things technically correct, and your mixes are too narrow in the stereo field, then I´d say, you´re missing some mixing skills.
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby Parrotspain » Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:26 am

I suggest a simple test?

Make a test mix with just one sound panned hard left, then panned hard right. No reverb, echo or stereo image processing applied.

Check your 'mix' on various different systems.
There should be absolute silence from the unused channel. Anything else will indicate a problem in mixdown, some audio crossover between channels somewhere in your system.

If your 'mix' passes this test, then everything else is down to mixing skills, listening environment and use of plug etc

What is certain is that Ableton doesn't somehow magically enhance panorama or image, neither does Cubase (configured correctly) corrupt it. But before you can get your mixes right, you must confirm that all is ok on the technical side

Good luck!
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby simple2nes » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:47 am

thinkingcap wrote:
simple2nes wrote:Hi everyone , i been working with Cubase for as long as 7 years , and i always noticed that my mixes lacked the stereo image . now i been Mixing for 5 years , and i been panning , using stereo enahncer , delaying the audio files , ETC.
now a friend who just started to use Ableton , do the same pan set ups, and for some reason his mixes come out with more stereo information .
he told me that the pan Law in Ableton is - 6 db ,so i changed the pan law, but the results are not good enough .
any suggestions ? i been pulling my hair trying to figure it out how to make my stereo wider? i don't want to switch to ableton please. help me 1!!

If you´re having things technically correct, and your mixes are too narrow in the stereo field, then I´d say, you´re missing some mixing skills.

can u just be more specific? something more than just saying that i suck mixing LOL ? suggestions? just dislike when i ask stuff on a forum and get this kind of this vague replies..
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby simple2nes » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:49 am

Parrotspain wrote:I suggest a simple test?

Make a test mix with just one sound panned hard left, then panned hard right. No reverb, echo or stereo image processing applied.

Check your 'mix' on various different systems.
There should be absolute silence from the unused channel. Anything else will indicate a problem in mixdown, some audio crossover between channels somewhere in your system.

If your 'mix' passes this test, then everything else is down to mixing skills, listening environment and use of plug etc

What is certain is that Ableton doesn't somehow magically enhance panorama or image, neither does Cubase (configured correctly) corrupt it. But before you can get your mixes right, you must confirm that all is ok on the technical side

Good luck!
P

thanks for your reply , and help , so far i did test with the soundCard and for some reason yeah is failing to translate in other equipment , i am using now another sound card and looks like it is working fine . thanks so much :).
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby curteye » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:52 am

Parrotspain wrote:I suggest a simple test?

Make a test mix with just one sound panned hard left, then panned hard right. No reverb, echo or stereo image processing applied.
Check your 'mix' on various different systems.
There should be absolute silence from the unused channel. Anything else will indicate a problem in mixdown, some audio crossover between channels somewhere in your system.
If your 'mix' passes this test, then everything else is down to mixing skills, listening environment and use of plug etc



Aloha P,
This is a beautiful/elegant approach.
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby thinkingcap » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:56 am

simple2nes wrote:can u just be more specific? something more than just saying that i suck mixing LOL ? suggestions? just dislike when i ask stuff on a forum and get this kind of this vague replies..

Yeah, I understand that - is the same for me with vague posts like ".. and for some reasons his mixes come out with more stereo information" nothing to really grasp, nothing to compare, so not really possible to be more specific.
One thing I never understood though, is why someone who is doing a mix, and has all the single files and possibilities available for creating a stereo mix as wide or as narrpw as he wants, should need something like a stereo enhancer at the end.
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby lukasbrooklyn » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:24 am

The mix is whatever you make it -- nothing to do with a DAW. Having said that, if you rely on panning [using the cubase mixer], you may want to alter your pan law settings in the project setup. A more prominent Mid drop (or more precisely, making signals that are panned away from the center of the panorama louder) can make the job of creating a wider-sounding soundstage easier. (That is, if you don't produce electronic music where width is more commonly achieved using diff. techniques. In that case, you could just try inserting the free voxengo MSED on the master bus and bumping the Side signal a couple dBs and see if that does the job for you.)
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby CWS » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:37 pm

One thing I never understood though, is why someone who is doing a mix, and has all the single files and possibilities available for creating a stereo mix as wide or as narrpw as he wants, should need something like a stereo enhancer at the end.


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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby simple2nes » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:37 pm

lukasbrooklyn wrote:The mix is whatever you make it -- nothing to do with a DAW. Having said that, if you rely on panning [using the cubase mixer], you may want to alter your pan law settings in the project setup. A more prominent Mid drop (or more precisely, making signals that are panned away from the center of the panorama louder) can make the job of creating a wider-sounding soundstage easier. (That is, if you don't produce electronic music where width is more commonly achieved using diff. techniques. In that case, you could just try inserting the free voxengo MSED on the master bus and bumping the Side signal a couple dBs and see if that does the job for you.)

Nice tip! !!
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby mpayne0 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:34 pm

thinkingcap wrote:
simple2nes wrote:One thing I never understood though, is why someone who is doing a mix, and has all the single files and possibilities available for creating a stereo mix as wide or as narrpw as he wants, should need something like a stereo enhancer at the end.

Yeah. The real way to go is to bounce L and R, pan them out, then put 100% stereo width plugins on both sides for real width.
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby thinkingcap » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:09 pm

mpayne0 wrote:Yeah. The real way to go is to bounce L and R, pan them out, then put 100% stereo width plugins on both sides for real width.

The real way is to get the mix / recording right...
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby Hemansu » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:24 am

I personally never use any stereo imager or even any panning on the master. Instead i use built-in stereo delay plugin to get proper stereo width to proper elements. Just my own way ;-)

BTW, anyone knows any professional stereo imager/enhancer plugin ? I have tried many but never find anything that sounds quite natural.

After trying several i find below two plugs best...

http://www.vengeance-sound.com/plugins- ... rame0.html

http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins/bx_control_v2

Anyone else ?
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby raino » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:06 pm

thinkingcap wrote:One thing I never understood though, is why someone who is doing a mix, and has all the single files and possibilities available for creating a stereo mix as wide or as narrpw as he wants, should need something like a stereo enhancer at the end.


Yeah, that's just asking for phase problems which will reveal their nastiness differently on different playback systems. These 'tools' give you less not more control of your mix.
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Re: WHY CUBASE MIXES ARE TOO NARROW ON THE STEREO FIELD?

Postby SYNTHSAYER » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:33 pm

This is obviously an old thread but I was having the same problem with 'Narrow' mixes that had almost no stereo imaging.
Please, don't just tell me I'm a total newb, tard, amateurish moron, or can't mix very well;. I already know all of that stuff, thank you :-)
This was never a problem with stereo imaging when using Nuendo, but in Cubase 7, noticed a total lack of panning in the mixes on which I inserted the Spacial Stereo Enhancer into the main stereo outputs.
I started the elimination process by panning one over head drum mic hard left. The sound was coming through headphones in both left and right channels and was thus indicated by Cubase 7's Stereo output meters.
I Soloed the track and began turning off the few processors in use one by one. Panned hard left the audio i was still coming through left and right channels, equally.
When I turned off the Spatial Stereo Enhancer, the selected track which was panned hard left, audio then came only from the left channel in headphones and was showing only reaction from Cubase 7's left meter indicator of the main Stereo Output.
Maybe 'resetting' the effect helped. Perhaps I had set it incorrectly; but I expect I used a standard preset. That may have been the problem; I just used the wrong preset.
In addition:
First, I had the Stereo Imaging effect after the Maximizer in the Stereo Ouputs insert chain, pre fader.
I moved the Stereo Imager to an insert point before the Maximizer and that produced a better stereo image. Adjusting the 'Width' to about 150 w Delay and Color turned off improved imaging more.
Engaging the 'Delay' and 'Color' section of the Stereo Imager immediately put everything in the middle again?
That's what happened with the Spacial Enhancer Effect when used in the main stereo outputs for me.
I hope this helps you :-)

Have a nice day
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