This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

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This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:41 pm

Timo and Fredo and Steinberg,

I truly appreciate all of the hard work that was put into Nuendo 6, and the recent frequency of your updates. There is a lot to love about the new version of the software.

However, there have been some unending little issues that plague it which have been mentioned over and over again, and in my opinion simply MUST be fixed in order for this to be considered a fully professional product. Things like the send labels sometimes having the name of the send, sometimes not...things like the sends not being properly labeled by name in the automation lane...things like the amount of clicks and button pushes now needed to do previously simple things like making sends pre-fader, editing a send, going through the plug-ins list on the mixer, completely turning off inserts easily, and more. Nuendo has always had a mostly good professional and efficient workflow, and while some of the improvements of the new mixer, etc., are fantastic, the new fiddly/clicky parts of it make Nuendo feel more toy-like in some ways than Pro Tools. The GUI is the primary gateway to how fast and efficient and professionally we can work. For software that costs a LOT of money like Nuendo, it can be very frustrating to have to click/scroll a bunch of times to do something that could be done simply in previous versions and in many competitors' products.

Would you be able to give me a definitive answer on whether or not some of the simple things I mentioned above are going to be fixed, and how soon? I appreciate the fact that the Steinberg team has been listening and is fixing a lot of the issues we have mentioned already. This is encouraging and feels great. I now would like to see that kind of response for the issues above and other niggling little things that have been mentioned many times here.

Thanks!
Last edited by Headlands on Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Dietz » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:10 pm

I couldn't agree more - of course with your well-worded preference for Nuendo in general, but especially with the following paragraph, too:

Headlands wrote:[....] Nuendo has always had a mostly good professional and efficient workflow, and while some of the improvements of the new mixer, etc., are fantastic, the new fiddly/clicky parts of it make Nuendo feel more toy-like in some ways than Pro Tools. The GUI is the primary gateway to how fast and efficient and professionally we can work. For software that costs a LOT of money like Nuendo, it can be very frustrating to have to click/scroll a bunch of times to do something that could be done simply in previous versions and in many competitors' products. [...]
Headlands


So, in a nutshell: +1
/Dietz

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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Lydiot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:58 am

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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby riwe » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:10 pm

Bredo wrote:To quote a member in the Cubase forum :
Sorry to be so snarky but these unnecessary 'hover' states are really 1st year design class. (Oooooooh, look, I can do a gradient! And make it look 3d! And make things fly across the screen!)

You could improve the UI about 50% just by removing stuff like this which actually makes the program -harder-.


++1
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Lydiot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:59 pm

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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Big K » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:49 pm

Dietz wrote:I couldn't agree more - of course with your well-worded preference for Nuendo in general, but especially with the following paragraph, too:

Headlands wrote:[....] Nuendo has always had a mostly good professional and efficient workflow, and while some of the improvements of the new mixer, etc., are fantastic, the new fiddly/clicky parts of it make Nuendo feel more toy-like in some ways than Pro Tools. The GUI is the primary gateway to how fast and efficient and professionally we can work. For software that costs a LOT of money like Nuendo, it can be very frustrating to have to click/scroll a bunch of times to do something that could be done simply in previous versions and in many competitors' products. [...]
Headlands


So, in a nutshell: +1

--------------------------------------------------------------

+1
and please don't take too long to improve this strange mixer GUI.
SB, maybe you should start an official poll on the new mixer to see where you stand...

I LIKE...NOT

Big K
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby JoDell19 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:46 pm

I would like to see the N5 mixer's graphics and functionality brought back.
Please listen to my tunes:

www.itunes.com/JoDellPlaymakerMusic

Spotify or Rdio: JoDell Playmaker Music
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Humanizer » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:20 pm

i suppose things will be changing in the next months. my impression is that Nuendo 6 doesn't meet the real world enought, and still need some improvements


reach pre/post by "right click -> roll menu -> scroll to point -> left click to select" is too long than old " one click button" behaviors...


same for sum mode of direct routing....

also the control room section needs to be re clarified:
too much scrool to quick react to a "more metronome to me! " request

it is strange that SB tend to optimize workflow with greats new functions in the mixer and waste the obtained gain with too much clicking on certain parts.
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby philipgbg » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:41 pm

+1
[RANT]
Going from N4 to N6 has made me extremely disappointed. The update was very expensive and haven't given me anything but headache. Jobs that took 30 minutes before now takes 60 or more. The graphics is just crazy - different styles in different windows. the new mixer sucks. no new tools for editing, just a bunch of EQ, dynamics and stuff that I don't use and I don't want but take a lot of space in channel setting window. Crucial functions like phase is hidden. There is no way to access the post fader insert slots from the mixer. The cursor disappears when editing. No pro metering or analyzing. Some great functions is lost from N4 but not a single new function that I actually wanted.
I don't get it, who do you think you customers are? Have you listened to your users at all? I don't think any of us want's tape saturation on every channel, and if we did we'd already had it. Why all this crap we haven't asked for? Give us a working program for PROFESSIONALS!

I actually wanted to downgrade to Cubase cause it seems to have plenty more functions for a lot less money but there was no crossgrade. Well, Magix is offering a crossgrade to samplitude / sequoia and you are one update from loosing a loyal customer since N1.5.

Shame on you Steinberg. [/RANT]
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Dietz » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:22 pm

Well - it's a pity that this thread (which started with a basically positive vibe) develops to a rant, but obviously there's a reason for that. :|
/Dietz

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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Lydiot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:06 pm

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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Lydiot » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:08 pm

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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Headlands » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:28 pm

Yeah -- I wanted to phrase it as positively as I could because there IS a lot I like about N6. However, I am doing heavy research into other options now, because the N6 mixer needs a lot of work to fix (as well as some other niggling things like send automation, etc.). I am hoping that the next update will primarily and very specifically address the multitude of problems we are having with the mixer design.

In my opinion a lot of it can stay, but there needs to be a HUGE amount of attention given to the massive amount of clicking and scrolling that is now necessary to do things that I could previously do with a single click or a single click/auto-scroll/release (like the plugins list, group assignment, etc). With most of those issues fixed then I would be happy to stay with N6, but at this point I am seriously starting to look at other options. It's funny: the new Logic X has actually made their mixer more efficient this way, whereas Cubendo has gone in the other direction.

Looks like there could be a good amount of longtime customers that Steinberg could be losing here, due specifically to the mixer -- I hope this is incentive enough to really focus on that part of the program and make it shine like it has the potential to.
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Big K » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:41 am

Dietz wrote:Well - it's a pity that this thread (which started with a basically positive vibe) develops to a rant, but obviously there's a reason for that. :|


--------------------------------------------
Right as always...!

Man, was I ranting about the thin-lined fader at the sends, etc.
Now, we got them towel size, but must suffer from hidden buttons, scroll menues and desorientation.
Hey, there is a middle way... You can do better!! You made Nuendo!!

And always think:
eyes-hands-done...

I didn't have to put the brain inbetween, anymore, when handling most functions in N5.

Now it is:
Brain-eyebrows?-scratching-click-scroll-click-think-wonder, what the ...

Please, listen to us and make it flow again...

Big K
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Headlands » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:53 am

It must be hard being a software company, because with every new update there will always be some who don't like it, complain, etc.

But the mixer in N6 has such universal disdain (I personally know...let's see...11 people who use Cubendo, and not ONE of them likes the new mixer, mostly for the same reasons we are all describing here) that I hope everyone at Steinberg can realize that it needs a lot of very important work still. I applaud them for going for something new, but they NEED to hugely reduce the absurd amount of clicking and scrolling that was never there before, and does NOT need to be there now. Almost ALL of the new features can be incorporated with most of the very efficient amount of clicking and scrolling that we used to have in previous versions. A lot of the other great improvements, as well as some of the OTHER mixer improvements are keeping me from going back to 5.5.

The alternatives I'm looking at are Reaper, Pro Tools, Studio 1, and Logic. I have no choice -- the clicking is slowing me down in a big way. I even have people I work with noticing how much more clicking and futzing there is when I'm working -- they're used to me being incredibly fast, but now the new mixer flow is getting in the way of that. This is not my imagination, and this is knowing the software very well and having used it intensely and exclusively for months now.

Can someone from Steinberg PLEASE comment on this? I am leaving for good, for sure, if I don't at least hear that something is being planned soon to fix the many flow issues with the new mixer. After many years of mine with the company, this is a shame, and is something that does not need to happen! I don't want to leave, but my workflow is demanding it. :cry:
Last edited by Headlands on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Lydiot » Thu Jul 18, 2013 4:10 am

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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Big K » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:23 pm

Indeed, I have not met one other user who likes the mixer, either!
On the contrary. Like Headland I don't like looking stupid when wandering through its valleys and caves using a white stick. So, N6 is not being used, here, at all, gathering dust next to N 1.5, 2, 3, 4 ....

I have had a closer look at Presonus' Studio One 2.0 since they released a students programm, just right for my lectures*, where you got 1 Studio One Pro 2.0 and 10 !! units of studio one artist for less than 100.- Euro.
It is not quite as intuitive as they claim, but very usable and it works well. Very close to a real alternative... for 350 Euro. And the smart way of transfering changes in the project songs directly into the mastering project is just excellent.

Btw, those CD / DDP features should have been implemented in Nuendo a long time ago. WaveLab used to be great, but not anymore. WL7 has lost its course just as much and WL8 will never hit my bench.

Don't drive your oldest knights of the order away... and f.G.s.
Say something!!!

Big K

*Mind you, Artist has multiple activations...At SB I could not get decent support for Cubase Elements and Sequel. Both couldn't be run on a school server. I really wanted to plant some SB seeds, there, but instead I had to root it out... and bought Studio One. What a shame. Btw, if you buy Sequel, even as an engineer, support might still treat you like a bed room studio noop....
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Lydiot » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:29 pm

vvv
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby philipgbg » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:21 am

Lydiot wrote:Maybe they're on vacation.....


Yea, that's a winning strategy. Release a broken piece of software that thousands of professionals rely on for their living and then of to vacation :o
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Antonio Escobar » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:21 pm

Can't agree more.

I love the features, but I deeply hate bugs and the new GUI.

BTW, PLEASE, please please please please please please please please please please, TAKE BACK the Nuendo user support to Steinberg. Having Yamaha as a filtering layer has NO sense (in my country, the "product specialist" is a very kind man that has NO clue about Nuendo). Two weeks ago, I contacted to Yamaha's support service. The answered after FIVE DAYS waiting and the answer was "bring your session to my office to see if it works". Please DO NOT WASTE MY TIME. This is a PRO tool and I want a PRO service.
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Re: This is a Pro product still with some un-Pro bugs...

Postby Lydiot » Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:56 am

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