POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Post general topics related to Nuendo 6 here.

Are you happy with the huge amount of clicking/scrolling in the new mixer?

No. Please change immediately to reduce the clicking/scrolling in a big way.
81
86%
Yes. I don't mind clicking/scrolling much more than I had to do in previous versions.
13
14%
 
Total votes : 94

POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:47 pm

Please note: This poll is NOT about the basic design of the mixer itself; this poll is ONLY about the amount of clicking and fiddling.

PLEASE participate in this one. It's just one click.

It's a truly huge step backwards for me and I know 100% is making a lot of people actually leave Cubendo. The mixer has some great new features which are overshadowed by the large amounts of clicking and scrolling. I'm trying to assemble as much evidence for this as I can, so (with any luck) Steinberg can see this and fix it.
Last edited by Headlands on Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby DG » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:25 pm

I hate the new mixer. I am forcing myself not to use N4, but it may well be that this mixer will eventually annoy me so much that I'll have to go back.

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:51 pm

...
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:21 pm

Lydiot wrote:I wish you had included a poll of the nonsensical Control Room Gui too.


Heh. Well, one step at a time. For me the clicking and scrolling stuff is making life more miserable. :D
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Rotund » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:31 pm

I see huge potential in the new mixer.
The extra clicking and sometimes hitting the plugin bypass by mistake has led me into
exploration of the key commands for navigating and editing the mixer without the mouse.
That has potential too but the cursor seems to jump from the selected track to another track when
using "tab" to go from the inserts down to the fader section.
Great big pain right there. So using the keyboard for navigation in the mixer becomes a constant dance to the left and to the right. Why does it keep changing the selected track when using the "tab" key?

Anyway...time to vote.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:22 am

...
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Rickard » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:48 am

There are certainly things that require more clicking ( such as invert eq gain, plugin off etc) but overall I find that there is less clicking for me since the mixer can show more info at a glance than N5. In fact I've taken some mixer key commands off my programable key pad because I don't need them anymore. Navigation is faster. I voted for less clicking of course. Faster is always better. But I have trouble understanding how so many people are struggling with the N6 mixer more than N5.

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby munchkin » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:07 am

I also like the new mixer. I think that when the extra clicking problem is addressed, it's going to be awesome.

I love the fact that I can choose a channel and get access to all of the related channels instantly with a key command.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Domilik » Fri Jul 19, 2013 7:49 am

Lydiot wrote:Having to actually be in the mixer in the first place to use them sucks donkey balls. Again; whomever came up with that doesn't use the app for a living and didn't bother asking someone who does about it. Why wouldn't I keep using the mouse/trackball to click on stuff if I'm already using it to select the section of the mixer I want to control (with key commands)???...

+1

I like many things on new mixer like more visible options, having a meter bridge on top, hiding channels etc, but there are far too many things which are too complicated now.
This clicking is absolutely unprofessional. Mixer shortcuts don't work when not beeing in mixer, when beeing in mixer I change the size of the fader all the time, when trying to zoom in/out edit window. WHY should I be able to constantly zoom fader-size? Why not set this up in preferences and it's done? I was absolutely fine with the old fashioned two sizes (still one more size than in "real life").

And then there is this new edit window, which used to be the most important overview for me. That's over, since I can no longer customize the view of that window, and have to click(!) for other views. Trying to change insert routing means to click tabs and then: no overview of the plugins. So clicking back. Looking on which tab-number the plugin is inserted, then switching back to plugin-routing. What a hassle. And I still just do not understand WHY all this was changed, all the old functionality was simply dropped, instead for getting an operation system for nuage.

To repeat: There are really a few things I like in new mixer/ new Nuendo, but just not for the prize of loosing all my simple and clicking-free old workflows.

Domilik
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Dietz » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:20 am

I absolutely agree with the main concern of this poll.

I'd like to add to Domilik's screenshot that I really want to get back the possibility to move sections of the channel editor window to other positions (see attached screenshot). I'm used to this layout since about 14 years now ... :-/

And apart from that: Please get rid of the "jumping" labels when the mouse cursor touches it. It is one of the reasons that the new mixer feels "nervous" and "not under control".

Thanks.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby blob » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:02 pm

I'm just curious who does the design for Steinberg. I mean the technical design. Is it done after a thorough research?. Or just a family member being given a shot?. Some Photoshop youngster.
Things established for the industry should not be changed IMO. Why fiddle around if its not broken?? :?:
This stuff has been PROBABLY tested by the BETA team. But who are those??? Any big name?. Probably not. Otherwise there won't be any changes that work against a user...
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:19 pm

...
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby blob » Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:03 pm

@LYDIOT
I can understand your frustration.
As I stated in a an other post , for me, this release of Nuendo is a transition to Surface Controlled Software.
Trust me, it takes 2 clicks and pot turn to adjust majority of the CR settings. Not so with a mouse.
It took me few hours to find out how to adjust the Talkback settings from the GUI, It takes few seconds from the System5
Just my observation.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Rickard » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:11 pm

I have never used the control room (I use all hardware monitoring) but I can see from the gui displays shown by Lydiot how it could drive me nuts.

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Sunshy » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:25 pm

I actually LIKE a lot of the ideas implemented in the new mixer. But there are just too many clicks as it is.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:27 pm

It's hard for me understand why anyone would vote that they are happy with the current amount of clicking and fiddling? As I very specifically stated in the poll: this is *not* about the basic mixer itself, but rather the clicking and fiddling, almost all of which would not be necessary with real world revisions put into the revamped design.

I, too, like a lot of the new mixer and I do not want to go back to the older version. However, the big drawback of the new mixer is indeed the amount of fiddling we now need to do, and also hovering the mouse over certain sections to see some values, etc.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Antonio Escobar » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:40 am

Lydiot wrote:I wish you had included a poll of the nonsensical Control Room Gui too.


LOL

+10

I don't use too mucho CR, but it's insane
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Antonio Escobar » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:43 am

Domilik wrote:
Lydiot wrote:Having to actually be in the mixer in the first place to use them sucks donkey balls. Again; whomever came up with that doesn't use the app for a living and didn't bother asking someone who does about it. Why wouldn't I keep using the mouse/trackball to click on stuff if I'm already using it to select the section of the mixer I want to control (with key commands)???...

+1

I like many things on new mixer like more visible options, having a meter bridge on top, hiding channels etc, but there are far too many things which are too complicated now.
This clicking is absolutely unprofessional. Mixer shortcuts don't work when not beeing in mixer, when beeing in mixer I change the size of the fader all the time, when trying to zoom in/out edit window. WHY should I be able to constantly zoom fader-size? Why not set this up in preferences and it's done? I was absolutely fine with the old fashioned two sizes (still one more size than in "real life").

And then there is this new edit window, which used to be the most important overview for me. That's over, since I can no longer customize the view of that window, and have to click(!) for other views. Trying to change insert routing means to click tabs and then: no overview of the plugins. So clicking back. Looking on which tab-number the plugin is inserted, then switching back to plugin-routing. What a hassle. And I still just do not understand WHY all this was changed, all the old functionality was simply dropped, instead for getting an operation system for nuage.

To repeat: There are really a few things I like in new mixer/ new Nuendo, but just not for the prize of loosing all my simple and clicking-free old workflows.

Domilik


I love the old edit window. You can do anything QUICKLY. No pages, and you can choose your GUI options.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:56 pm

To those who voted "yes": I promise I won't attack you, I would just like a very clear and logical explanation of why you might enjoy more clicking than is necessary?

AH! After seeing this comment by Fredo it does indeed make sense: "While you all think that Nuendo 6 is a step back in usuability, the combination with Nuage just makes this a killer setup."

This is not a rant, but I need to say the following: There should be no sacrifice for the radically larger group of Cubendo users who do not want to spend the large amounts of money and/or might not have the room for Nuage. This line of thinking will, in the end, ensure the loss of some customers, so an easy way to *not* have that happen is to *not* reduce usability for the regular and vastly more common non-Nuage user. I can afford and have the room for Nuage but I don't want to spend all that money on a controller when I was lightning fast without one. Flexibility is key with any great DAW.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Mon Jul 22, 2013 6:30 pm

...
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Big K » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:17 pm

Me neither. Maybe 2 interfaces for Nuage and KB & Mouse ppl would be a great solution.
Get Nuage the best possible integration and make us ( the majority ) happy with a
KB & Mouse mixer version for Nuendo.

Anyhow, one thing is quite obvious: it can't stay as it is...

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Dietz » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:23 pm

Combined intermediate results from both the Cubase- and the Nuendo-Forum's polls: Roughly 90% from a sample of about 100 users don't like the status quo. It's also quite telling that the rejection is even stronger amongst Nuendo users.


:shock:
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:09 pm

...
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:18 pm

Dietz wrote:Combined intermediate results from both the Cubase- and the Nuendo-Forum's polls: Roughly 90% from a sample of about 100 users don't like the status quo. It's also quite telling that the rejection is even stronger amongst Nuendo users.


:shock:


Indeed! Also, on the Cubase forum and possibly here, some of the users posted that they didn't mind just because they didn't like the way I worded the original poll. :roll:
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Robin Walsh » Wed Jul 24, 2013 7:42 am

I really, really like the new mixer. Once I'd adjusted my thinking, there was no going back. I would like less clicking though. Just some small additions and adjustments to the mixer would make all the difference. But, all in all I am happy.

I have a feeling that a great deal of the new mixer design is for touch-screen integration. In the next few weeks I have a new touch-screen arriving and will report my findings.

Cheers,
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