POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Post general topics related to Nuendo 6 here.

Are you happy with the huge amount of clicking/scrolling in the new mixer?

No. Please change immediately to reduce the clicking/scrolling in a big way.
81
86%
Yes. I don't mind clicking/scrolling much more than I had to do in previous versions.
13
14%
 
Total votes : 94

Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:12 pm

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Brandy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:44 am

I am just doing my first steps in N6/C7...

I love the new mixer. Basically. It gives me all the options / workflow I ever wanted when dealing with those 300track projects..

I HATE the edit window - I HATE the new control room.

Just look at the already posted comparison-screenshots.

There have to be some modifications. I understand that "some" of the options and workflow modifications will need more clicking... it is ok - more clicking here, saving time there. But Steinberg just left out brilliant design details - which (of course) are "old fashioned" - but WORKING!

Mixer concept is great! But leaving out for example on/off button for plugins.. I can not understand.. I am switching on/off plugins all the time to compare them, because bypass is NOT the same. Some waves plugins have 1 sample delay when bypassed... Messes when doing parallel compression stuff. DSP plugins will not unload in bypass. Bypass I usually use in combination with automation. For example with a simple delay inserted directly on a track. There are plugins which are NOT transparent when in bypass - some plugins will clip/limit off at 0db when only bypassed.
Ok, wrong topic :) Sorry!
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby munchkin » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:56 pm

I do agree that the new mixer is a pain in in it's present form but feel that it has great potential. Steinberg, in my opinion, has been very good in the past with addressing user needs and I would hope that in the near future they will address all or most of the issues that have been complained about most vehemently concerning the new mixer.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:30 pm

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby ipanema » Sat Jul 27, 2013 3:41 pm

Obviously, different people have different opinions about the new mixer GUI. Some like the look but not the extra clicks, while some hate both. The fact is that the extra clicks are inherent in the new look. So if there's anything to be done about the extra clicks--as demanded by seemingly the majority of users--a redesign in the GUI will also have to be involved. Will it ever happen? That's another story...or better say, the whole story.

About the Nuendo/Nuage theory, be it true or not, I think Nuendo users are much less likely to buy Nuage simply because of compatibility, rather it's the other way round. One who chooses to own Nuage might very well get motivated to entirely switch their perfectly working DAW to Nuendo merely on compatibility grounds; which brings me to my main argument: Yamaha certainly have the power and means to manufacture a custom-designed Nuendo to go with their expensive hardware--even as a bundle--and stop messing with the nerves of the rest of us.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Sat Jul 27, 2013 5:57 pm

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby DG » Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:54 pm

I'm really struggling with the mixer. Do you guys have any suggestions of how to see gain (or trim) on each channel? Or the send amount? Currently I don't seem to be able to do anything without clicking, and I tend to keep my mouse away from the mixer wherever possible, because it wastes time otherwise.

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Brandy » Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:22 am

Bredo wrote:
Lydiot wrote:To me this seems to be just crappy design by people who don't use the DAW professionally or listen to the consumers. That's what it seems like to me.

But they sure thought it looked cool ;-) :o :shock:


I do not want to sound like an old conservative parrot - but for me it looks like that since years. They are changing something in a way where 9 out of 10 users are complaining as well as they are heavily interrupted in their workflow.

The last thing (before N6) they changed in a poser-way is the events GUI - the whole N5 thing was way behind N4 regarding the look of Events, overlapping etc... I really do not know why they spend time to change something good and professional to something looking and feeling like Garage Band.

It tooks almost all the time a big version is out till everything is working fine - for example latest 5.5.6 seems to be a good release, I am still on 5.5.4 because I am in the middle of finishing a big session - but as it seems to me 5.5.6 could be a version which can give me pleasure for a long time here.

I think it is not always bad to invent something new - in the first moment I hated how Nuendo changed when going from V1 to V2... V1 was for me the "holy grail" 12 or 13 years ago and Nuendo 2 was something complete different, and it was a very weak release in the beginning. Serious features were broken... Crossfades were clicking and stuff, it took ages till everything was fine - but in the end we had with Nuendo 3 a quite brilliant release. I was using Nuendo 3 for a long time, like I did with Nuendo 1.52.

So the design which was implemented with V2 is basically the design we have with latest 5.5.6 - just that 5.5.6 is optimized close to perfection incl features I always wanted.

Now they get rid of everything which worked good for us and made Nuendo 6. (Or Cubase 7 - not talking about Cubase now to keep it simple).

And I have to say that I love the idea behind the new console and - well - in some way I could live with the new look and all - it lacks a little bit that "real mixing desk" feeling/look, which I think is bad, because that "real mixing desk" thing is working for both - for the client who is just watching me while mixing - and for the engineer who is able to use the desk intuitively because everything is there were you would look for it.

So the new look is more "iPad app" style... well... why not... I could have been great to have "real looking" faders and stuff, but this is not a showstopper.

I can not understand why they were not able to "modify" the old and existing design in a way that all the new features are implemented but still keeping the old mixing desk. Of course there will be need to change things to make others fit into an existing concept - no problem! Maybe the could chance the color as well or make a new fader-optic.. what they want.

But I can really not understand why the left out all these buttons which we all are used to.

Plugin slot with the plugin, above the on/off switch, then the bypass button and last but not least the editor-button.

So it is straight:

Clicking on the plugin ---> pulldown for selecting another plugin or no plugin
Clicking the on/off --> Plugin is switched on or completely off
Clicking the bypass ---> Plugin is bypassed
Clicking the "e" --> You have the plugin editor open/closed.

Now that is simple.

Now I have to take care to NOT remove the plugin just because I clicked on an area slightly "off" - because I have to click just a solid bar (Plugin) for all these features - including double click for editor... When things go fast and you are "into it" - it happens all the time that you click too fast so the command "double click" is interpreted by the computer as "single click" - in that case you have to take care not to remove the plugin ...

The overall mixing desk thing is ok - beside the fact that the design is suboptimal regarding the sizes - I have gigantic fader handles and in the same times thoses poti knobs from the channel strip are micro-sized, on a high res laptop screen all the space is used up from things which I do not need and in the same time I have to fiddle with knobs with a size of a Mosqitos Poo.

Not talking about control room and channel editor... Here is said enough.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:27 pm

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 29, 2013 5:58 pm

In my honest opinion there is a lot to like about the new mixer, and I for one am happy to stay with the current design...IF, and only if, they make it as minimal-click-friendly as it used to be and fix the other little problems like track readability, value readability, etc.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby etl17 » Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:08 pm

I am wondering what kind of usability testing Steinberg performs. It seems to me as if their design goal was to somehow simplify the visual and user interaction (failed and failed), instead of improve workflow. Maybe Steinberg forgot that this is supposed to be a professional application and not a consumer utility toy?
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:02 pm

Well, look...I think the ranting/negativity is getting us nowhere. I'm very guilty of it, too, I know!

I wish we could have more interaction with Steinberg (like we briefly have every so often) so that a productive and rational back-and-forth could happen, though of course the nature of a forum could make that kind of crazy. But I think that this Nuendo forum could be a good place for it since we're fewer in number and tend to be working professionals. But right now there's very little interaction, probably both because of how much ranting there can be here, and also Steinberg as a company.

I completely understand -- on a HUGE level -- everyone's frustration here, though, believe me. The situation is very frustrating.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:06 pm

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby DG » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:20 pm

I haven't yet ranted, although I feel like it. However, I have made the decision to mix the next project in Pro Tools, as the new N6 mixer just makes the job slower, and I can't afford to pay an engineer for an extra day, when he can do the job adequately in Pro Tools.

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:46 pm


It's not ranting. It it never has to get to that point if Steinberg decides to talk to us.

If our voices aren't heard the people who designed that crappy GUI will think they did the right thing. And they not only won't change it, but may perhaps make even more bad decisions moving forward. Is that better?

I'm not sure what you suggest other than us being quiet.



I'm suggesting that sometimes we can get personal/insulting with attacks on the company, and that that is probably not the best road to go down -- even if it's not intended that way, in a forum it can be interpreted as such. Even if we're all getting insanely frustrated.

I am ALL for making things known (as the one who started this entire post, and as one who is very vocal with suggestions for improving things). I'm just worried that getting specifically insulting towards Steinberg with our posts can have the potential to turn them off even more.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:47 pm

DG wrote:I haven't yet ranted, although I feel like it. However, I have made the decision to mix the next project in Pro Tools, as the new N6 mixer just makes the job slower, and I can't afford to pay an engineer for an extra day, when he can do the job adequately in Pro Tools.

DG


Yep. I'm currently demoing other DAWs in case I need to make the switch, for the same reason. And I'm FAST on the new mixer, even!
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:51 pm

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:58 pm

Lydiot wrote:Well I'm not going to suck up to the people I gave my hard earned money just because they're over-sensitive. And so far I've seen absolutely no "insulting" "attacks". Not a single one.


I'm not implying sucking up. And I have seen plenty of posts that can easily be construed as attacks, but that's all up to personal interpretation, which is the danger of internet forums. Never mind, we just have different views on this. I've been on both sides and have not seen results, so I don't know what the answer is.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Lydiot » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:06 pm

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:12 pm

We have different experiences on that then.


That's entirely possible. At this point it's neither here nor there, I suppose...hopefully all of the combined talk and complaints/suggestions about the mixer (including many by me on both forums) will engender some changes in the upcoming release.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:53 pm

I understand Bredo, believe me. I have shouted plenty of times!

I guess we just need involvement by them so that we all don't end up shouting. :)
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 29, 2013 8:59 pm

DG wrote:I'm really struggling with the mixer. Do you guys have any suggestions of how to see gain (or trim) on each channel? Or the send amount? Currently I don't seem to be able to do anything without clicking, and I tend to keep my mouse away from the mixer wherever possible, because it wastes time otherwise.

DG


Currently the only way is to zoom in enough on the mix console. Then you can see the values, but then it's too wide for many of us to want to use it that way. Maddening, I agree.
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Jim Fox » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:03 pm

Hello SB

The mixer was better in N1-N5. One of many examples: you have to hoover over the Gain icon to see the gain setting. Before you could glance the entire mixer to see gain settings. One more, the mouse scroll wheel use to adjust the gain in one dB increments, now 1 then .9, then 1, .9, 1, 1, .9. I don't get it.

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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Headlands » Mon Jul 29, 2013 10:16 pm

Jim Fox wrote:Hello SB

The mixer was better in N1-N5. One of many examples: you have to hoover over the Gain icon to see the gain setting. Before you could glance the entire mixer to see gain settings. One more, the mouse scroll wheel use to adjust the gain in one dB increments, now 1 then .9, then 1, .9, 1, 1, .9. I don't get it.

Thank you
Jim Fox



Agreed. But in the meantime, zoom the mixer in so you can see the gain and send settings without having to hover. It's too wide at that point for my personal taste, but at least you can see the levels with no hovering. It should be better addressed (i.e. move the "gain" label to small bar above, or get rid of the label entirely), but in the meantime this is a band-aid until they fix that part. The other part is simply broken. :|
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Re: POLL: Clicking and fiddling in the new mixer.

Postby Big K » Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:31 pm

Keep voting, chaps....

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