Nuage in use?

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Nuage in use?

Postby Domilik » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:45 am

I'm wondering if there are news concerning the Nuage-console? Is it released in between? Does anybody here already work with it?
When searching google I rarely find any infos, and all of them coming from last winter.
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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Fredo » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:25 pm

We have a system here.
As I have heard from the Yamaha people, sales are going really fast and delivery has started a few weeks ago.
As far as I know, we are the first commercial customer that has received delivery.
:)
And it's no surprise that sales are going well, because Nuage is absolutely frea***g fabulous. (And I am no fan of controllers, go figure ....)
The integration with Nuendo is extremely deep, so that after playing with it for a couple of hours, it annoyed me very much to return to mouse and keyboard. This thing just makes Nuendo Fly.
While you all think that Nuendo 6 is a step back in usuability, the combination with Nuage just makes this a killer setup. For me it has become clear that -for power users- the complexity and the ever growing feature set/possibilities of Nuendo has outgrown the use of mouse+ keyboard. (How many Key commands can you remember?) At a certain point, you need to make choices. Just like you -almost- can't do without a single screen anymore (unless you make choises/compromises).
Seen from a Nuage point of view, the new layout and features makes a lot of much sense and are extremely helpful.
I think now it's only a question to adapt them a bit so that mouse+keyboard users can do with less clicks.
But I don't want to open up a new discussion .... So please stick to Nuage in this thread.

I have played with pretty much all available controllers, including the very expensive ones, and Nuage kills them all.
I am very-very-very happy.
We are probaly going to put in a second system later this year.

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Lydiot » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:37 pm

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Domilik » Sat Jul 20, 2013 4:20 pm

Fredo, thanks for your report.
Since you have one: How much is a Master, and how much is a Faderpack? I cannot find any information.

And second question: How deep is PT-support? HUI? Most important here for me: Can I at least control Volume, Pan, Sends and EQ with it?

I think now it's only a question to adapt them a bit so that mouse+keyboard users can do with less clicks.

please let me add here: not only for mouse+keyboard-users, but also for all those users with another controller.
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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Bifop » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:03 pm

<Drool mode on>
Fredo, a picture or it didn't happen...

I'm dreaming of a system like Nuage.
Did you got the I/O boxes as well ?
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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Fredo » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:45 am

Lydiot wrote: Ironically what you're not allowing me to talk about and a couple of other things are exactly what makes me question a purchase.

In relation to Nuage, you can ask all you want. I just don't want this to become another rant.

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Fredo » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:50 am

Domilik wrote:How much is a Master, and how much is a Faderpack? I cannot find any information.

It depends on the country you are in an the local Yamaha dealer.
I paid slightly under 10k for each fader & master section.

H is PT-support? HUI? Most important here for me: Can I at least control Volume, Pan, Sends and EQ with it?
I can't answer that, we are still in mockup and testing phase. But from what I've heard, PT support is pretty basic. HUI I think.

More news within a couple of weeks. Nuage will be installed in a temp setup, which will be the first phase of rebuilding the room. And to see if the custom desk we are building is meeting expectations.

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Fredo » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:57 am

Bifop wrote:Did you got the I/O boxes as well ?

No, we didn't get the I/O's, although it was intended to.
The "problem" is that we would have to change from MADI to Dante. And merry-ing MADI and Dante is not easy at all.
So I didn't feel much to ditch MADI in all 4 rooms + machine room. Would have been to expensive, with almost no added value.
But quality-wize the I/O's are really good. And not expensive. Somewhere between 2 and 3k.

I only have one pic, where we just put together the units in order to verify dimensions.
Nuage.JPG
Mockup Nuage system Temple Room 1
(1.93 MiB) Not downloaded yet


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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Bifop » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:51 am

Thanks a lot for your answers and the picture Fredo.

So you have one for real 8). Wow.

What is the use of the blank unit at the top ? Can you put rack gear or it simply adds console width for a bigger screen layout ?
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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Fredo » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:14 am

Bifop wrote:What is the use of the blank unit at the top ?

We have a second computer in use (running Synchronos and other applications), so we need a 4th screen "in the row".
The screens all run through our Blackmagic SDI router, so we can easily switch screens so it fits our needs.
The workspace will also be the place where we'll put the Sounddevices CL-9, which controls the 788T.
For real-time merging input channels during Foley Recording.
The 4th screen will then display Waveagent, the software application of Sounddevices.


Can you put rack gear or it simply adds console width for a bigger screen layout ?

Yes, there is a cutout on top and the bottom, so you can slide in 19" gear.
The sloped section alos has 3 units of 19" gear, but no bottom cutout.
This is the place where we are going to put our Lafont Lp21's and LP22.
Will need to do a small modification at the bottom of teh workspace, but nothing problematic.

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Bifop » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:49 am

Thanks again Fredo for the detailed answer.
I like the possibilities the extra empty unit offers.

I somehow thought the Nuage system was housing the 24" screens. Seeing from your picture, I see there is no vesa mounting plate or any stand. So you have to figure out a way to mount and elevate the screens to the control surface top border.
So a custom desk or 4 X ergotron arms is needed.
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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Fredo » Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:38 pm

Bifop wrote:I somehow thought the Nuage system was housing the 24" screens.


No, You have to buy the screens separately.
You can also use smaller size screens, and/or any screen you fancy.
If you would put Nuage on a table (see my picture), then the screens can stand just in front of Nuage, and it will all fit perfectly.
So no special arms or any kind of rocket science is in order here. Of course, you can use such arms ...)
The desks from Argosy and a few other manufacturers are equiped to accomodate the screens, but we have chosen to build our own desk. (Although we have Agosy Consoles in all rooms and are very happy with them)


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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Hugh » Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:42 pm

Hello,

Nuage looks like a great product although I haven't seen it in operation yet. Unfortunately for us it continues an issue we've had with controllers for some time as Avid and others continue to escalate exclusivity in controllers.

We use and make money with multiple large Nuendo systems, and here in Los Angeles we must be able to work quickly in PT so we have several of those systems as well. When Avid integrated EuCon into PT it promised an agnostic controller future - deep controller integration into Nuendo and PT. Unfortunately Avid refuses to license EuCon to other hardware developers, limiting EuCon to Avid controllers only - not a friendly or open process. Third party controllers must use HUI for PT. HUI was always a mediocre protocol at best, and current PT versions do not officially support it although mostly it still works.

So now if you occasionally use PT you must purchase two expensive and exclusive controller systems which is not space efficient. Or purchase an MCpro and hope Avid's EuCon keeps up with Nuendo 6's advances which is not currently the case. I expect Nuage will have deeper integration with Nuendo, why wouldn't it, so we're back to incompatibilities.
Frustrating for multi-platform users.

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Domilik » Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:27 am

That's a very important point. In my country (and especially as a freelancer) I have to deal with PT on a nearly daily base. I try to work on every project where I can decide myself (or which is staying completely in my place) in Nuendo, but most project's have to switch studios, so I have to offer pro tools.
Otherwise, when I do mixing jobs in my studio I also have to make sure that I can mix pro tools sessions, whether I want or not - just for earning some money.
So I have to be compatible with Avid, and I need a controller which can both (at least the most important functions like pan, send, eq, automation).

I really like most of what I see from Nuage-Videos, and the huge implementation into Nuendo seems great, and would be worth a buy, but not, if cannot deal with pro tools in a reasonably proper way. Eucon-integration seems to be the only chance for this atm.

If Nuage would support Eucon, or any other strategy to control (the most important) pro tools-functions, I am sure, it would be a really big seller among us Nuendo postpro customers!
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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Lydiot » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:09 pm

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Lydiot » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:52 pm

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Lydiot » Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:59 pm

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Fredo » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:50 am

Guys,

I answered the price question in my third post of this thread.

It depends on the country you are in an the local Yamaha dealer.
I paid slightly under 10k for each fader & master section.



We can argue and debate about pricing as always have been done ... It's *always* to expensive.
Well, for me it's not.
You get what you pay for, and as far as I am concerned, pricing is correct.

In the mean time, we have build a temporary mockup desk with which we will work for a couple of months to finetune the ergonomics, cable management and other stuff you usually find out when it's too late.
Temple Nuage Mockup.JPG
(2.37 MiB) Not downloaded yet

So the desk is fully functioning and in use. And I am still happy with it.

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Fredo » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:45 pm

Bredo wrote: I'm just envious :D .


Don't be. Because this is equipment to make money with. Not some kind of luxurious "play-thing".
If you can't make money with it, then it means you have invested your money in the wrong thing.
It's so easy to fall into the Gearhead trap ...

Bottom line is that our company needs a console/controller of that kind, for all kinds of reasons.
And within the price ranges of those kind of consoles/controllers, and for our needs, Nuage is simply the best bang for the buck.


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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Mark Ayres » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:19 pm

Fredo wrote:While you all think that Nuendo 6 is a step back in usuability, the combination with Nuage just makes this a killer setup. For me it has become clear that -for power users- the complexity and the ever growing feature set/possibilities of Nuendo has outgrown the use of mouse+ keyboard.


Gosh. I'm sorry, Fredo - I know you don't want to have this thread sidelined, but I cannot let this pass. Nuendo 6 *is* a step backwards in usability. A massive one. I am sure that with Nuage, it's a massive step forward for some users, but that is at the expense of those of us who were quite happy with the interface, and have no need for a control surface. And the implication that those of us who are quite happy without Nuage are not "power users" is frankly insulting. I spend a massive proportion of my working life with Nuendo, doing very high-profile work. Nuendo 6 simply slows me down and no longer gives me the information I need to do my job.

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Lydiot » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:28 pm

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Lydiot » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:34 pm

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby csd » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:30 pm

It would seem I am on the "other side" so to speak, as I do like Nuendo 6, and the new mixer GUI is fine with me. I used to be intrigued with the hardware emulation GUI concept, but at this point I will take ergonomics over visuals any day.

To me the new mixer design seems to be about quite a bit more than compatibility with Nuage (though that is a very significant advantage with Nuendo 6 and Nuage). I would venture a guess it is a step towards a dockable, flexible GUI that isn't tied to the old internal windowing system. That is worth more to me than 3D knobs and faders. I despised the previous mixer, and avoided using it because it never recalled my layouts of inserts, sends and EQs correctly, and I could never get screen layouts looking right within the old window system.

Being able to simply assign the new mixers to a dedicated 2nd or 3rd monitor, and have each recall exactly the setup I assigned it, with multiple layout options for each, is worth it's weight in gold. It does feel like a work in progress, but I see the path a bit differently than some others here seem to - giving up some graphics now for better functionality moving forward is the right approach in my opinion.

And yes, it does fit with the touch screen future much better than anything else out there, but I see that as a bonus, not the main goal. I will eventually move my studio to touch screens and Windows 8. While I don't plan to replace a hardware mixer-controller with touch screens, I do plan to integrate them into my work where they make life easier - and I can see a lot of ways for that to happen.

Disclaimer - I don't own a Nuage system, yet - but I am very impressed with the design and capabilities. And I do use ProTools as well, but after several years with both, and as much as I like ProTools for what it is, I find myself being faster with Nuendo 6 and enjoying it more.
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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby Lydiot » Mon Aug 26, 2013 4:06 pm

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Re: Nuage in use?

Postby csd » Mon Aug 26, 2013 6:51 pm

Lydiot wrote:csd,

Fredo will tell you that this thread is about Nuage, not the mixer. He has also said that the new mixer design wasn't really done to make it compatible with Nuage. I still can't understand why people keep saying that's the case...


Well I didn't say that was the case - to the contrary. But I get the impression from other posters here that perhaps some do, and hence my reply. However, since the topic is asking about Nuage installs then perhaps if you don't have one, general opinions about Nuage and Nuendo should move to a new thread.

On that note does anyone in the western US have one? I wouldn't mind seeing one in use.
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