Nuendo 6.5?

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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Robin Walsh » Fri May 23, 2014 5:04 pm

I am really excited about the new features but, I was hoping for VCA's too......!!!!!!!!

%@#&!!!!!!!!
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby DG » Fri May 23, 2014 6:19 pm

I'm waiting until I see the list of bugfixes. If the showstoppers are not fixed, there will be no reason to upgrade for me.

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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Antonio Escobar » Fri May 23, 2014 6:24 pm

We are getting close to the end of cycle of N6 and to a new Cubase release, so that's a good point: bugfixes. To be honest, I don't care too much about any feature but rock solid predictable performance, with everything added working.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Sugar » Fri May 23, 2014 7:25 pm

Still no easy way to export a click track.

I really hope for a major click management redesign with improved time-signature/click track, where you could define a type of click unit (8-note, dotted 4-note etc.) and export a click stem.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby fenderchris » Fri May 23, 2014 7:28 pm

DG wrote:I'm waiting until I see the list of bugfixes. If the showstoppers are not fixed, there will be no reason to upgrade for me.

DG


Quite right.

The Control Room has apparently been rewritten but there is no indication whether or not the number of cue sends has been increased from 4 to a more practical and professional number. I don't understand their resistance to increasing the number - perhaps the code is incapable of handling any more. Maybe they are not aware that with the advent of iCPro only 4 sends is amateur territory. Maybe nobody knows. Maybe the number of sends HAS been increased but they are not telling us! Could somebody at Steinberg who knows what is going on please let us know the answer?
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Rickard » Fri May 23, 2014 8:41 pm

As much as new features are cool, as Antonio wrote, Bug fixes are more important. Will the rack configuration bug be fixed? This bug has been there from the very 1st N6 version and as cool as the feature is, its instability makes it unusable and I am more than disappointed that it hasn't been fixed yet.

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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Marsman » Fri May 23, 2014 8:43 pm

finally!! Will buy N6 next week with the grace period

Great stuff, have been waiting for these features forever. Now I can retire my N5.5, it served well
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby scott717 » Sat May 24, 2014 1:42 am

Available Q3 according to announcement. So much for Q2. Hopefully it will be EARLY Q3.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby iBM » Sat May 24, 2014 3:15 am

Also quite a bold statement from the announcement:
Nuendo’s popular add-on package, the Nuendo Expansion Kit

What a joke :lol: . Well not that funny :(
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby drorh4 » Sat May 24, 2014 8:46 am

What a disappointment! Cant say more than that. I might sell the Nuendo system.

Is there a list compering the Nuendo 6 with Cubase 7, Please? I want to have a look.
People here who wanna cross-grade from Cubase to Nuendo and they have to work with POST AUDIO MUSIC(!!) or MIDI
just forget about NUENDO.

This is shameful to see the same new features of Cubase 7.5 plus ADR2(?), Improved AAF import( Is that a joke? I need to pay for that?)
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby ju » Sat May 24, 2014 12:13 pm

No disappointment at all here...
Aaf is not a simple thing to deal with, especially when MC and PT don't respect the standard regarding metadata... Standard they signed for at the very beginning...
And again it's just the foundation for some bigger program wide metadata and conformation management (as we urgently need for post)
ADR2 is a big step in the right direction for post guys, too.
Needless to say to say that Nuendo is aimed for post guys in the very first place, and it must remain that way, mostly because Cubase is way not enough for post.
Which in my opinion explains very well that NEK is an option in Nuendo, and included in Cubase, for instance.
For comparison, there are tons of differences betwen Cubase and Nuendo, especially with the automation in Nuendo which alone justify the price difference in my opinion.
Just compare what crap useless automation you got in protools with the serious automation in protools HD... (No surround either in standard protools)
now compare the price between protools and protools HD... You'll find out that Nuendo is not expensive at all.
No need to say either that protools does not allow you anymore to upgrade-crossgrade your protools in HD, you cannot buy the protools HD without an avid interface anymore and the CPTK does not exist anymore... (Seriously???)
Protools is also completely outdated regarding lanes, freeze, and offline process history, project logical editor, even video offsets, just to name a few... And it's still way more expensive than Nuendo...
Cubendo does allow you to crossgrade smoothly when needed...
So in the end to compare two post (so no logic, live, digital perf, etc) and music aimed daws, I wouldn't complain about a probably $50 upgrade fee... But that's just me.
Now I can hear that for music guys the story might be a little different, but I'm curious to know what make music guys want to quit using Cubase for Nuendo... Except full automation...
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Antonio Escobar » Sat May 24, 2014 12:19 pm

As music producer, I use some of the Nuendo-only features as the cycle marker export, all the time.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby ju » Sat May 24, 2014 12:24 pm

Wasn't aware that it was N-only.
Now that's something that should be in Cubase ! It's so useful I don't understand it's not implemented... Very good point.
Maybe we should make a list and ask for a "CEK", same idea as "NEK" for advanced features in Cubase without having to crossgrade completely ;-)
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Brandy » Sat May 24, 2014 12:42 pm

Antonio Escobar wrote:As music producer, I use some of the Nuendo-only features as the cycle marker export, all the time.


Same here - I am doing Music ONLY and I prefer Nuendo WAY over Cubase. Cubase is just not working for me THAT good than Nuendo does.. small things.. the whole marker thing.. some automation stuff.. x-fade editor... etc.. I do not need AAF and ADR stuff etc but I am of course fine with that. I could do my work in Cubase with the same results - but I still prefer to do it in Nuendo - since Nuendo 1. During the years I swapped to Cubase a couple of times - to be able to use new features which I was waiting for a long time. But usually only till Nuendo comes up again, then wait a couple of months again till the bug-dust settles a bit..

The issues I dislike and which are often a PITA in my workflow are exactly the same in Cubase AND Nuendo.

I have to say, to some "issues" I get used to slowly..

But there are some major issues which are not fixed in Cubase 7.5 and I hope they will do it in Nuendo6.5

For example using the keys "s" and "m" in the mixing console to toggle solo or mute beetween multiple channels.. I use and need it all the time to compare sound... having 6 tracks of mics - 3 are solo, 3 are mute... In N5.5 and older versions I can just use the mixer and hit s or m to switch between the solo or mute states.. Now this is only working in the project window, in the mixer "s" or "m" only affects the first of the selected channels.. This bugs me on a daily base.. and this is NOT fixed in Cubase 7.5...

I have collected tons of similar (usually smaller, but quite annoying) issues during the last months working exclusively in N6 - but I do not think that it makes sence to post them here...

Not even talking about stuff like Control room and the clicky workflow without much overview in the mixing console..I fear with stuff like that I just have to deal... Now I do not want to go back to N5.5, but I am not that happy with it in N6 though..
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby ju » Sat May 24, 2014 12:55 pm

Completely agreed about s&m ;-) there are indeed a lot of tiny annoyances here and there, but again, which software as complex does not have some issues.
That being said there are huge problems in Cubendo like the ram pressure and the unbearable long save time provoked by big amounts of automation break points.
Now that is coming from the very deep conception I'm afraid, and nonetheless desperately need to be addressed (at some point... Sooner better)

I also would say that the mixer/control room thing need discussion, exchange between us and SB.
I'm quite please for now that some voices against CR have been heard and there seem to be changes in N6.5 regarding the so inefficient multi cliclicclic control room.
Keeping in mind that the whole mixer thing is designed to work alone or in conjunction with nuage... Which is new, and shows an impressive degree of integration compare to other daw controllers.
I'm confident that we have a good basis which new to evolve to become really efficient for standalone and nuage users at the same time, without forgetting about 3rd p. controllers...
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Antonio Escobar » Sat May 24, 2014 2:14 pm

Solo and mute behavior is totally painful! And it's something that I use
200 times a day!
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Brandy » Sat May 24, 2014 2:37 pm

Antonio Escobar wrote:Solo and mute behavior is totally painful! And it's something that I use
200 times a day!


Me too! All the time!

I was most sure that this will be fixed in C7.5 - because this must be something basic where everyone is complaining - that's why I never took the time (which I do not have) to post in the forum... but I was quite shocked that this was NOT fixed..

Why?

That mixing console is (when we do NOT look at the clickicklicky and overview issues etc) quite an improvement regarding features and possibilities.. and that mute/solo thing is one of the most used things when you record and mix...
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby iBM » Sat May 24, 2014 2:51 pm

The NEK should be a seperate install so that it could be used across both Cubase and Nuendo. That way people like me with both Nuendo and Cubase (allready paid for NEK), could use the same functions across both apps.

A paid add-on package for Nuendo only users, free to use in Nuendo for owner of both Cubase and Nuendo.

Is that so hard to do?

I'm also a music producer only, and have also liked Nuendo better (historically) because of some rather small things.
Steinberg's problem is and has always been; Where to draw the line between Music and Post?
Is the forth mixer a Post only feature?
Is the cycle marker export a Post only feature?
Is the extended cross-fade editor a Post only feature?
Is the extended automation a Post only feature?
etc, etc..........

Please fill in what you think are rather suspect Post only features. As said, wher to draw the line?
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Brandy » Sat May 24, 2014 2:56 pm

Well, I REALLY do not care about the NEK... at least not anymore. That does not mean that I like it - but I do not care about it because in the end I have what I need. It feels not good paying twice, but well, I do not care, they should do it like they think that it is good.

But I step over issues all day and night (solo/mute thing and other stuff) and THIS slows me down. If they sell Nuendo in one or 5 modules, I do not care in the end, as long as I am able to get what I need. I am tired discussing the NEK thing.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby ju » Sat May 24, 2014 3:28 pm

Very interesting...
Modules... Yeah why not, but I bet some things have to be change very deeply before that.
Bit it is almost certain that everyone should find what (s)he's looking for, with the benefit of the flexibility...
Not for tomorrow exactly ;-)

Now, about drawing the line, I totally agree, it's very difficult, if not impossible.
Especially because on occasion post guys have to deal with music... Well in the music production way, sort of, and vice versa...

In my opinion at least Steinberg let us cross grade from C to N. Good. But surely not enough in a perfect world. An ok to not talk about NEK. ;-)

Specific post stuff ?
ADR, edl, conformation & bwf field recorder
Metadata management, even way more aaf (and hopefully soon IMF) filtering, some advance video management (not sure about that one, I think a lot of music guys need it as well)
Don't shoot but I think automation as it exist today in Nuendo is good, but still not enough for post (maybe enough for music ? At least of course if you use it as intended and certainly not as PT automation, which Is really great on a lot of points, but really different in essence)
Advanced Surround feature like Iosono Anymix sounds definitely post essentially (including scoring, but not music-only, yes?)

But the opposite is also true.
For instance, 4 cue sends is more than enough in a lot of of post configurations, but I totally get that it's not enough for music...

And about the price I personally would be ready to spend 50% more on a Nuendo license with more post features and the ram pressure break points problems solved.
Nuendo is not so pricey imho... Plugins are.
So I don't really get why the update fee is so problematic.

At the same time, we have to pay for new functions, and the annoying and/or critical bugs are still there... Now that's problematic...

Like many, I'd rather see an upgrade (even with fee, yes) solving issues than new (really cool, yet) features.

For the solo/mute problem, I get, but it's also a POV problem :
In front of a console or a controller, you certainly not solo/mute with a keyboard... Problem solved.
When you edit, you mostly use the editor, and the mixer way less. No problem either in that case.
But I would agree that especially with the mixer only in front of you with no controller at all, it's problematic.
Simply does not concern everybody. Maybe the mixer functions where designed with a little too much of nuage in mind...
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby drorh4 » Sat May 24, 2014 3:30 pm

ju wrote:Needless to say to say that Nuendo is aimed for post guys in the very first place, and it must remain that way, mostly because Cubase is way not enough for post.
Which in my opinion explains very well that NEK is an option in Nuendo, and included in Cubase, for instance.


Why do I need this Cubase(musicians) vs. Nuendo( Post) *flower* to stand in my way after working with Nunedo ever since and this system is much more expansive ("flagship") - Why should Steinberg care if A sound designer which is ALSO a Music composer will or will not have ALL THE TOOLS HE\SHE NEEDS?

If AAF is a standard problem, Steinberg should deal with it as a company and "take the fire". This is not a new feature, its an essential part of media workflow. Media composers using Nuendo do need AAF on daily basis.

ADR - Well, I made ADR sessions with Nuendo, Protools, Cubase and even Final cut without any super cool system.
I worked with what I had at the time like any other Pro. Now - improvements are good, very good.
But what do I care about ADR when my N6 is still buggy and unstable.

Export to QT - Sound editors. designers and composers asking for this damn important feature for YEARS! It is all over this forums.

Cubase is not enough for post? maybe, but I have NUENDO, and NUENDO should be enough for everything cause we all know this NEK thing is just a bunch of features blocked. I do films, I need mockups, temp music, sampler use like any other musician. Why do I need to pay extra to see a sheet of music score from the composer?

This "Peak-loudness" integrated limiting - I don't anyone serious that would use this feature without hesitating first.

Im not a studio owner. Im a freelance so I need to be sharp on PT if I like it or not. This software maybe lack some of Steinberg features (nothing to write home about), and has a lot to offer in the small area (QT ex, no click crapal tunnel steinberg), it is lighter, faster and more intuitive and sounds better. I stick to Steinberg cause I need MIDI and Post features, and all in all I like it very much.

Ever since I got Neundo 6, I sufferd crashes and limitations. meters? the market is full of meters. Magneto...bla bla bla.

Fix the bugs first
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Brandy » Sat May 24, 2014 3:34 pm

ju wrote:For the solo/mute problem, I get, but it's also a POV problem :
In front of a console or a controller, you certainly not solo/mute with a keyboard... Problem solved.
When you edit, you mostly use the editor, and the mixer way less. No problem either in that case.
But I would agree that especially with the mixer only in front of you with no controller at all, it's problematic.
Simply does not concern everybody. Maybe the mixer functions where designed with a little too much of nuage in mind...



Well, it was working before.. Since V1.. Cubase and Nuendo. And I do not have Nuage (what the heck that is, I do not know) - I am in Nuendo 70 h/week and it is enough for me to use a Faderport for manual Fader-riding-automation - most of the time I am even just fine with the mouse.
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby Getalife2 » Sat May 24, 2014 4:01 pm

Years ago, I used to be on these forums a lot. Some things change.

I just re-registered today after browsing through info on upcoming 6.5. Some things don't change. Like people who are literally never happy about their tools. It's amazing to disappear for 5 years and pop back in to read the exact same stuff. Just change the version numbers and the specific features being complained about and it's like stepping into a time machine!

And here's what strikes me most. The current Nuendo's capabilities would have been considered divine magic from the future only a few years ago. Doubt me? OK, break out your copy of N2 and go for it! I think it would be an eye opener.

So here's what I see. A group of professional developers who have created and consistently improved this incredible software that has made my work better and made me money in the process. But since it's not PERFECT and can't do EVERYTHING each and every end user wishes it would, it's pile-on-Steinberg day, every day. Meanwhile, I'm willing to bet that some of the same folks rail on PT over at Avid forums and on Logic over at Apple (at least until Apple deletes the post).

It seems like no matter what the developers at SB do, it's just never enough. I would imagine the guys coding their butts off on Nuendo every day are every bit as dedicated to their craft as any of us. What if your clients made a habit letting you know that you sucked and they just put up with you because they had to? Fun time?

And while I'm reading about all the crashes, I find myself wondering how I have managed to build a VEP based system with multiple computers that does not crash, while working with hundreds of tracks and many, many VSTi.

Anyway, I mean no offense to any specific person or people. Just a few observations from an old/new guy. I will happily upgrade to 6.5/NEK. When I consider how much I have invested in my total system, the upgrade fee is silly to complain about. Heck, maybe I'll hold a lottery and pay for the winners upgrade myself, just to get some peace in here! ;-)

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. And HI everybody!
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby ju » Sat May 24, 2014 4:17 pm

My point exactly ! I was referring to Yamaha nuage for nuendo.
I would bet that the new mixer in N6/C7 was designed for Nuage in the first place.
As nuage is new, I'm not surprised to hear there wasn't a problem before.
Hence you're absolutely right to complain about it.

And at the same time, it's really a music only problem.
I don't know many mixers in post that would even accept to start thinking about mixing without a console...
I thin that's why they might have missed that hilariously (not so much, hem) bug in the first place...
Again, the new mixer is new, so I can forgive (you could argue that it's easy for me as I'm not concerned at all)
But what is more annoying is that it's not fixed !!!!

As I said, less new killing features (we already have many) and more old bug killing !!!
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Re: Nuendo 6.5?

Postby ju » Sat May 24, 2014 4:28 pm

Getalife2 wrote:Years ago, I used to be on these forums a lot. Some things change.

I just re-registered today after browsing through info on upcoming 6.5. Some things don't change. Like people who are literally never happy about their tools. It's amazing to disappear for 5 years and pop back in to read the exact same stuff. Just change the version numbers and the specific features being complained about and it's like stepping into a time machine!

And here's what strikes me most. The current Nuendo's capabilities would have been considered divine magic from the future only a few years ago. Doubt me? OK, break out your copy of N2 and go for it! I think it would be an eye opener.

So here's what I see. A group of professional developers who have created and consistently improved this incredible software that has made my work better and made me money in the process. But since it's not PERFECT and can't do EVERYTHING each and every end user wishes it would, it's pile-on-Steinberg day, every day. Meanwhile, I'm willing to bet that some of the same folks rail on PT over at Avid forums and on Logic over at Apple (at least until Apple deletes the post).

It seems like no matter what the developers at SB do, it's just never enough. I would imagine the guys coding their butts off on Nuendo every day are every bit as dedicated to their craft as any of us. What if your clients made a habit letting you know that you sucked and they just put up with you because they had to? Fun time?

And while I'm reading about all the crashes, I find myself wondering how I have managed to build a VEP based system with multiple computers that does not crash, while working with hundreds of tracks and many, many VSTi.

Anyway, I mean no offense to any specific person or people. Just a few observations from an old/new guy. I will happily upgrade to 6.5/NEK. When I consider how much I have invested in my total system, the upgrade fee is silly to complain about. Heck, maybe I'll hold a lottery and pay for the winners upgrade myself, just to get some peace in here! ;-)

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest. And HI everybody!


Completely agreed !
As I said, I don't understand why an upgrade fee would be a problem even some bugs, compare to a lot of expensive and sometimes clearly useless plugins we might sometimes buy...

But in the other hand, I think it's also important to discuss problems to see if they just can be solved with workaround a or if it needs new direct functions.

The fact that everybody reacts the same as before is perhaps also (partly) due to the fact that a lot of software are delivered with many bugs which are sometimes really annoying.
It's quite expected (and normal I would say as the soft is really complex)

But I don't think it's useless to sometimes say that dev should focus on addressing recurrent annoying problems rather than implementing new functions that could have waited a bit.

As I said, I mostly agree with you and I remember PT3.2 and N2 also... Yes we do have magic tools today, but we are asked to do miracles way faster than before.
That being said, I'm really happy with Nuendo as main daw, but that's also a reason to try an push it further...
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