[R-13391] Macros malfunction(s)

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[R-13391] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby Altiverb » Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:34 pm

Hi,

I've made a bit of researches in the forum, but apparently nobody seems to talk about this. I've made a few tests with some editing macros, specially one found in Protools "trim at selection" (command + E if my memory's good).

Here are two screenshots I've made : One working, but really complicated to do what I want to do (and only working on a single event), and another that SHOULD work with all my selection, but stopping after the third operation.

Capture d’écran 2014-04-24 à 21.18.28.png
This Macro is working, but is really a pain...
(10.48 KiB) Not downloaded yet


Capture d’écran 2014-04-24 à 21.18.41.png
This one should be easier for nuendo, but...
(5.53 KiB) Not downloaded yet


I believe the delay between each operation asked is a bit too short for the system to handle it the way it should.
I mean, some operations are good placed together, but some just stop in the middle of doing one. In the second sreenshot, it stops just after the "Transport - To Right Locator" operation.
During an old discussion with a member of the testing team, this tester told me they knew about this problem, though there's still no [ISSUE] collected about this. So, this is it !

See you for the next problem ;)

EDIT : The "Zoom - Zoom In" operation I've placed in the second screenshot was just a test to see if putting an intermediary function would make the macro do it's job... And no, it's not :cry:

EDIT 2 : After manipulating a bit simple macros, it appears that some operations take more time than others. Transport is slower than some other edit functions (such as cutting). This explain why the first screenshot works, and the second doesn't.
Last edited by Altiverb on Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby likelystory » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:15 pm

Instead of using macros why don't you just use the built-in functionality combined with the range tool?

Commands:

- Split range
- Crop range
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby Altiverb » Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:30 pm

likelystory wrote:Instead of using macros why don't you just use the built-in functionality combined with the range tool?

Commands:

- Split range
- Crop range


Thanks, i didn't thought about this tool (well, I didn't know with the double-click you could select the whole event...).

Though in my edit process, I need to use the locators to reconform a multitrack file based on another multitrack. So it's not really useful in my case. I have hundreds of files to drag and drop on my timeline, so I'm trying to find the quickest way to do it.
And the macro is definitely what I need, so there's an issue :twisted:
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby likelystory » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:24 pm

Tell me what you're trying to solve rather than how you're trying to solve it.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby Oliver.Lucas » Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:59 am

Hi there,

I've posted about this since I've been a Nuendo user (some 8/9 years ago, I believe).
It comes up every now and then, but I guess it would cause a lot of work on Steinberg's side, because they must have read this complaint a million times without ever implementing a fix or reacting.

If you have an external software like ikey from plum amazing (if you're on mac, or someting equivalent on pc) you will be able to make it work by inserting pauses into the macro. Timing seems to be the issue here.

I still hope they will implement this as a regular command one day....

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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby Altiverb » Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:58 pm

@ Oliver Lucas : Good advice, the ikey software. I'll try it as soon as I'll have a bit of time. +1 for the timing problem.

@ likelystory : If you read the topic name, it's clearly written "Macros Malfunction(s)". The purpose of the test was to highlight where the problem happened. Otherwise, I would have created a topic named "I'd like to take a Nuendo lesson"...
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby ErikG » Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:40 am

I do think that likelystory has a point in asking, as you have unnecessarily many steps in your macro.

But yes regardless of that fact, the macro engine needs work.
Really they should look at tools like quickeys for example to se how much more that can be accomplished by a modernization and development of the macro engine.

OTOH...
Macro users is clearly not a large part of the user base. Heavy macro and PLE users seem to be pretty rare.

It's the most powerful tools in Nuendo, and even with all their shortcomings they still can do magic even today. But you have to jump through hoops.

To get your macro to work better you need to adjust the timing. The commands are issued faster than the program can react to.

You can youse a number of zoom in and out commands to affect timing. Or to add a more substantial delay you can use a PLE routine. But you can only issue a max of two PLE routines in a macro so till not a good solution! but still a solution that may come in handy now and again.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby skillet » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:20 pm

Oliver.Lucas wrote:Hi there,

I've posted about this since I've been a Nuendo user (some 8/9 years ago, I believe).
It comes up every now and then, but I guess it would cause a lot of work on Steinberg's side, because they must have read this complaint a million times without ever implementing a fix or reacting.

If you have an external software like ikey from plum amazing (if you're on mac, or someting equivalent on pc) you will be able to make it work by inserting pauses into the macro. Timing seems to be the issue here.

I still hope they will implement this as a regular command one day....

Ollie


I have this issue with Multiple Macro's and unfortunately have to use Quickeys which isn't as elegant since it depends on the key commands not chaining or being assigned to a command. It would be so neat if there was an option down in the macro's area. Strange they haven't added this yet.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby skillet » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:38 pm

ErikG wrote:To get your macro to work better you need to adjust the timing. The commands are issued faster than the program can react to.



ErikG wrote:You can youse a number of zoom in and out commands to affect timing. Or to add a more substantial delay you can use a PLE routine. But you can only issue a max of two PLE routines in a macro so till not a good solution! but still a solution that may come in handy now and again.


Thanks for the zoom trick tip. What is a "PLE routine"?

As a side note I wish Cubase had a Cut head and Tale command. I switch back and forth between Cubase and Nuendo since Cubase seems to get cool features first (I guess they are sort of beta testers).
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby rav » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:53 pm

ErikG wrote:
To get your macro to work better you need to adjust the timing. The commands are issued faster than the program can react to.



Think thats the key.
Nuendo is tricky getting keycommands.
We have been trying lately different ipad apps that trigger keycommands and none works properly cause nuendo is not able to react to fast triggered key commands and for example "ctrl+d" ended up being just "d" .
We have also used bome midi translator (program that translates midi to keycommands) on the past with same results.

Best.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby lukasbrooklyn » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:45 pm

the macros have always been broken unfortunately, depending on the project load it seems commands further down the macro script can get executed before a previous command has finished.

nobody's clearly bothered at steinberg.

i also use [a quickeys alternative] to execute commands with precisely timed 'sleep' commands between them. it can work, but DAW users should not be expected to code their way around a program.

i remain sceptical about this issue getting solved any time soon though. for instance-- it took a couple of years and hundreds of posts for steinberg to notice (or admit) timestretching - a core functionality - is broken. the macro system bugginess on the other hand isn't likely to create enough momentum to build up a solid case. users probably aren't going to start leaving because of this. i tend to think however it should be a matter of commitment to quality and loyalty to your userbase to be fixing issues, even if they are something a new user won't notice is broken...
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby Getalife2 » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:38 pm

Surely adding a few commands of increasing values of "Pause XXXX milliseconds" would not be too hard. Might be a slightly inelegant (albeit quick) solution, but would likely be effective.

Steinberg folk, how about this?
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby ErikG » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:30 am

Personally I don't think a "pause/wait" command will be enough.
Why?
Because it will have to be set so that it works on large projects (slow execution) and thus it will be slow on small projects as well.

What is really needed is that Nuendo waits for each step to be completed before issuing the next command.

A workaround that seems to be working (still in its infancy) is to assign midi notes tied to those same commands and creating a midi note chain in for example liine Lemur.
It seems like the midi is buffered and fired off one after the other, and that the next midi event won't be triggered until the program is done doing what it is doing.
I haven't tried it enough to say that it works 100%, but it seems to work a lot better in both small and large projects for me so far.

Drawback is you have to build macros in a very un intuitive way, first setting up the KCs as responding to midi notes and then creating buttons generating a string of midi notes in Lemur.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby skillet » Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:01 pm

ErikG wrote:Personally I don't think a "pause/wait" command will be enough.
Why?
Because it will have to be set so that it works on large projects (slow execution) and thus it will be slow on small projects as well.

What is really needed is that Nuendo waits for each step to be completed before issuing the next command.


Agreed but as a quick one off hopefully they delay command wouldn't take more than a day to program and implement and it would at least make things fairly intuitive for many. Who knows the delay might be in Stienburg's eyes acconowleging poor implementation of the Macro's.

There are things that maybe outside of Cubendo that needs a delay that they would have no way of knowing about. One of my macro's moves the cursor forward and depends on "Auto Select Events Under Cursor" and a Macro might not have any way of knowing that since it isn't part of the commands executed. Overall I mostly agree with you and would love for both to be implemented, especially since I switch between two keyboard shortcut sets frequently and 3rd party solutions like QuicKeys don't cut it.

I see what I can figure out with your Lemur solution, I am hoping one doesn't have to have a Lemur controller or connected constantly to an iPad https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/lemur/id481290621?mt=8 to implement your solution. I would love to try the solution regardless, is this what you were referring to earlier when you said a PLE routine?
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby ErikG » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:21 am

I dont think it has to be a lemur/ipad. I think it's just using midi regular buffering.
Try to do it using a regular midi keyboard or whatever controller you may have.
It really ought to work the same. I like lemur as I can customise and name buttons.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby ErikG » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:26 am

As for a PLE it really isn't very useful for delay as in a big macro you need multiple delays for it to execute properly. And we can only have two PLE entries in a chain (it's a undocumented limitation, if you add more than two PLE routines the third and later will just be ignored.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby lukasbrooklyn » Wed Jun 25, 2014 3:19 pm

ErikG wrote:As for a PLE it really isn't very useful for delay as in a big macro you need multiple delays for it to execute properly. And we can only have two PLE entries in a chain (it's a undocumented limitation, if you add more than two PLE routines the third and later will just be ignored.


doh, is that so? i wish i'd known earlier.
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[ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby ErikG » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:54 pm

Well either it's a undocumented limitation or a bug. I realised when I was trying to use multiple ple's in a macro. So I used quickeys instead. Can't remember what it was for any more so I guess I didn't actively use it that much... :)
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby skillet » Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:53 pm

Sorry that took some digging and google was not helping nor the manual. I guess I am just not that hip to know what a PLE routine was "Project Logical Editor". I use "PLE routines" daily but didn't know it, I have dozens of presets I made for it but had never acronymized it before. I guess I don't hang in the right circles :oops: .

I am not sure how the third PLE or later is ignored entirely unless you just mean as a delay somehow. In a couple that I use regularly to change the color of tracks from default track colors to track colors by name and it has 10 PLE (one for each track color type as show in the video) in the macro.

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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby ErikG » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:12 pm

Oh, I meant using the macro output of the PLE editor (I just hate say/writing long names repeatedly, so I started to use the term within our company).

The limitation I have found is using The output macro in the lower right in the PLE window. Otherwise the PLE can't be used as a delay as the regular macro engine won't know it needs to wait for the completion of the PLE.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby skillet » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:27 pm

ErikG wrote:The limitation I have found is using The output macro in the lower right in the PLE window. Otherwise the PLE can't be used as a delay as the regular macro engine won't know it needs to wait for the completion of the PLE.


Oh that makes sense, thanks for the clarification, I figured I wasn't understanding what you meant.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby UnderTow » Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:36 pm

I am surprised the Macro system doesn't wait for the previous command to complete before executing the next. That doesn't make much sense as any more complex macro is likely to be dependant on the precise order of commands. Sigh.

Btw, there are more issues with the macro system. I have an "ISSUE" thread about at least one serious issue here: viewtopic.php?f=184&t=60295&p=362992#p362992

Feel free to bump that thread if you can reproduce the issue. :)

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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby Guillermo » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:17 pm

Hello,

I am moving this to the Issues forum.

Best regards,
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby Lydiot » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:51 pm

Any news on this? It's been months and this issue keeps coming up.
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Re: [ISSUE] Macros malfunction(s)

Postby Lydiot » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:01 pm

Lydiot wrote:Any news on this? It's been months and this issue keeps coming up.


:?:
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