Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby JMCecil » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:15 pm

I'm not sure Prince and Lady Gaga belong on there because their intent was always popular demographic sales. U2 may be the single most over-rated band of all time and Bono is extremely self important, but I don't think they've made records specifically to target a demographic .. i.e. let pop trends determine song format.

I have to go back a ways .. but lets take Journey. They were a very jam oriented band, but were searching for popular acceptance and hired a singer "Steve Perry", and moved closer to pop song structures. Infinity was the first result. That album worked in both directions. Accessible, but still interesting/creative songs. However, the drummer and keyboard player were totally hating on it as they went through the process for the next pop fest album, and quit. Even Neal Shon hated it, but was digging the response from the audience, so he continued to slug out the pop dribble.

That's a sell-out. However, I'd gladly sell out for those pay checks.
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby Scab Pickens » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:45 pm

1.) Metallica

2.) Def Leppard

3.) Steve Fogal
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby NorthWood MediaWorks » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:17 pm

The BeeGees - they became disco boys at the time of Saturday Night Fever, disgusting. :lol:

Genesis - Beginning at 'Then there were three" Phil Collins ruined that band. :twisted: They proved they could still produce with Trick of the Tail minus Gabriel, but soon after it began to slide down the tube.

Supertramp, Beginning at "Breakfast in America" - Sad sad sad.....

The Doobie Brothers - once Michael MacDonald became the lead singer. Rock went Pop. :? :(
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby NorthWood MediaWorks » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:19 pm

Scab Pickens wrote:1.) Metallica

2.) Def Leppard

3.) Steve Fogal


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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby G-string » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:57 pm

Bruce springstein has a head so big jo merrick would be proud of him.
Donny Osmond ,if I see this idiot on british tv one more time I will reinvent a Guy Fawkes plot on the Tv station to airs this numpty .
Kiss WTF are these inbreeds all about
Guns and roses what a bunch of &**((^&^
Aerosmith another jo merrick .
Rem i'll shiney happy people the lead singer if I ever catch up with the depressed gonad

shall I carry on ????
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby knuckle47 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:01 pm

To the contrary, I heard last week that Paul McCartney closed out a show in California at Golden Gate Park at 71 yrs old and did a 3 hour show with 31 tunes and 8 encores. The Grateful Dead played for hours and hours and hours the last 20 or so times I had been to their show. I know there are others but I only had these come to mind since almost every thing I listen to today is from 25 years ago
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby MrSoundman » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:33 pm

1. -- has gotta be Fleetwood Mac, two different unrelated bands really
2. Genesis, or rather, Fill Collins, ditto
3. Eric Clapton; seriously: do you even have a TV?
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby Early21 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:38 am

It's tough to judge them, I think. It's a miracle in the first place that we're willing to feed anybody for the music they make, let alone give them a mansion etc. It's a sellout for everyone right from the start. I feel a little bad for the bands that have seen their glory days recede, and are still on the road, playing to small audiences of gray-haired people who leave early when it's their bed time. It's not selling out, per se, it's like hanging on for dear life. I saw the Average White Band recently. They were still excellent, but I was wondering if they could barely stand it, and assumed they were still on the road because they didn't have good retirement benefits. There are lots of bands touring in this category.
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby curteye » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:55 am

1-me
2-me
3-me

I ain't proud!

I will record or perform for anybody as long as the cheque clears. :)
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby knuckle47 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:08 am

Speaking of checks...When I first started building acoustic guitars there was a joke going around about optimism:

How do you define an optimist? A luthier with a mortgage! Clearly a few answers there.

By the way...Eric Claptons yacht, 168 feet long, has several TV's
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby surfer » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:43 am

curteye wrote:1-me
2-me
3-me

I ain't proud!

I will record or perform for anybody as long as the cheque clears. :)
{'-'}

+ $1.98 I'm cheap
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby jaslan » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:36 am

I agree with Early. People need to make a living. Do what pays the bills. If that happens to be what you love, then that is a bonus. If it isn't, then do it in your spare time and call it a hobby.
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby OldFecker » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:55 pm

The people who cry "sellout!" are generally people who can sell nothing themselves.

They are just jealous of all that success and money ;)
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby NorthWood MediaWorks » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:33 pm

OldFecker wrote:The people who cry "sellout!" are generally people who can sell nothing themselves.

They are just jealous of all that success and money ;)


Nonsense. But you're entitled to your opinion. And they theirs, and me mine. Its all subjective.
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby swamptone » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:47 pm

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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby BriHar » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:09 pm

So if an artist who was, previously a sell out, suddenly turns their back on the pop, commercial stuff and begins (once again) producing meaningful work, are they then a "buy-in"?

(I guess KISS would be more of a shell-out :lol: )
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby NorthWood MediaWorks » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:40 pm

The concept of this topic to me is "do you believe they sold out"... my interpretation, and my response was based upon my dislike of their new direction, in my mind they sold out from their artistic roots to more monetarily satisfying ones.

I never for a moment would suggest they had no RIGHT to do so... of course we all have those choices. When it comes to liking someone's choice it's all opinion any way. If you watch interviews with some of the old times, they will often admit that their direction and the different one their bands took was a type of "sell out".

Ease up people.... stress will age you. 8-)
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby jaslan » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:56 am

Architects, interior designers, even engineers, have to "sell out" on their original designs in order to satisfy the customer. We all "sell out" in one way or another in order to make a living. Does a kid that wants to be a professional skateboarder sell out when he gets a job at McDonald's?
My only complaint about an artist selling out is that I miss the style of music they were making and usually don't care as much for the main stream version of their music.
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby Scab Pickens » Thu Aug 22, 2013 5:24 am

I have to give the ol' Kocker credit for being able to stir up the sh!tpot.

Okay, I feel a little bad for my first two.

Metallica ...

Lost their soul when they lost Cliff Burton. I love everything through Master of Puppets.

Def Leppard ...

Lost their "drive" when their drummer lost his arm. As sad as the story is, they were never a rock 'n' roll band from that point on. Amazingly, they went on to become bigger - riding on the wave of a soon to be dead MTV. Also lost their soul when they lost Steve Clark.

As far as Steve Fogal goes ...

I like a working man who has paid his dues. You know I'm just pullin' your chain ... 8-)

OldFecker wrote:The people who cry "sellout!" are generally people who can sell nothing themselves.

They are just jealous of all that success and money ;)


I guess it all depends on how you define "success". Success can mean different things depending upon what your goals are. If your goal is to maintain artistic integrity (whatever that might mean to any given artist - and are they really an "artist" if they sacrifice that integrity ... blah, blah, blah ...).

Art is more of an idea than a thing and is very difficult to discuss once money is involved ... especially with the artist.
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby NorthWood MediaWorks » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:07 pm

jaslan wrote:My only complaint about an artist selling out is that I miss the style of music they were making and usually don't care as much for the main stream version of their music.


Precisely my point also. Well said.
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby HowlingUlf » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:29 pm

Steve Fogal wrote:just because certain music may be technically good, it doesn't necessarily make it good music.


It doesn't say very much about the music at all, so it can be very good music, as well? ;)
There is a lot of folk music from the south eastern parts of Europe that's very "catchy" and at the same time is extremely hard to play, and if you try to analyze it it's shock full of vitamins.
No matter how you look at it it's very good music, so the question is do you like it?

It's again in the eyes of the beholder.

* * *
As for 'sell-outs' it's easier to yell at someone else to starve for you than doing it yourself.
You may also get tired of playing some style of music after 10 years and decide to change.
Too bad you you try to play something a lot of people already really like, you TRAITOR !!! :evil: :mrgreen:

Also there are record companies, concert promoters, cd stores and the general public to add to the equation so if you're stuck playing music it's maybe not that easy to do the right thing all the time?
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby twilightsong » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:19 pm

jaslan wrote:Architects, interior designers, even engineers, have to "sell out" on their original designs in order to satisfy the customer. We all "sell out" in one way or another in order to make a living.


So true. Once upon a time, when I envisioned myself to be the next great auteur of cinema, a professor of mine, who, unlike many academics, had actually worked and enjoyed considerable success in the industry, told me: "Unless you learn to deliver what your employer wants, you'll never make it, and... you'll starve." If one examines the careers of the great innovators: Kubrick... Picasso... Eliot... Wright...one finds that they all got their starts doing relatively conventional stuff that "the man" had paid them to do.
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby twilightsong » Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:31 pm

How does one define "selling out?" I thought Steve pretty much nailed it in his OP. To me, it's someone who has considerable talent, but makes music that is relatively simplistic or "lowest-common-denominator" in order to make money.

I think the biggest sell-outs have mostly been Jazz musicians that have prostituted themselves to do relatively basic pop stuff. For me, ALL Smooth Jazz players are complete sell-outs. In the 50's, a lot of talented black Jazz players, mostly Be-Bop guys, abandoned Jazz in order to play Boogie Woogie on the chittlin circuit, because it was more popular and therefore paid better. Today, everyone remembers Charlie Parker; the names of the sell-outs are all forgotten.

Did ya'll know that Schon, Lukather, and the Procaro boys were originally trained as Jazz musicians? Did you know that most successful sessions players honed their chops playing and studying Jazz? What was the old myth -- that Peter Criss had a Master's degree in Music?

John Lennon himself once said that the Beatles were the biggest sell-outs ever. He may be right. Before they hit it big, they were basically garage rockers, playing unbearably loud, hard-edged Rock in the Cavern Club. Once they got signed and joined George Martin in the recording studio, well, things changed
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby 1magineer » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:48 am

Nobody on the outside can judge whether someone is selling out or not. That's an inner dialog. We can say, "Oh, I wish [he/she] stayed true to [his/her] original style." We can say that we resonated with a bands younger, or original sound more than we like their new one. We can say a lot of things... but the fact is, a person's journey is between themselves and their spirit. The journey is so individual. So, what is a sellout really? A sellout is when you do something that goes against your grain to gain someone else's approval, or to gain materially while you hurt in spirit.

If you are not a pop star, yet "suddenly" you write a hit that uplifts others, and with in a year you are playing large venues and selling songs and albums, and others are inspired, and you are enjoying your ability to uplift and inspire, you are not selling out.

If you are not a pop star, and you are given this opportunity, and you really want to take it, but your friends accuse you of selling out, and in spite of the fact that you want to do it, and you have the talent, you listen to them, and you DON'T take the opportunity, for fear of disapproval and being called a sellout, you have actually sold out, but in a different way than is commonly understood.

If you are a poet/singer songwriter, and that is what you want to do, and your wife and father-in-law are always coercing you into "at least writing something with a hook," and you do this because of them, and not because it is something that will prove in your best interests over time—and you are not aligned with it, you are a sellout.

If you are this same singer songwriter, and you get inspiration one day, and finally write a song with a hook, because you wanted to, and you sell it for four figures to an advertising company via Broadjam, and this begins a new phase of your creativity, and your wife and father-in-law celebrate your success, you are not a sellout.

I purposely used these examples, because they illustrate the internal landscape that is not often considered. It is not what it looks like from the outside, but what it feels like on the inside.

Be true to thyself, or thyself will make you feel your sellout acutely.
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Re: Artists that are 'sell-Outs'

Postby Scab Pickens » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:37 pm

Bredo wrote:
Steve Fogal wrote:
Scab Pickens wrote:I have to give the ol' Kocker credit for being able to stir up the sh!tpot.


That's what Old Kockers do best :mrgreen:

That's what Old Kockers are made for :mrgreen:


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