POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics.

Would you like the "old" lane editing back, as an option?

Yes, I would like to switch to the "old" C5 lane behaviour, for MIDI / Audio tracks that I choose
119
72%
No, I am happy with the "new" C6 lane behaviour, I don't need the old C5 behaviour
46
28%
 
Total votes : 165

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby Mr M » Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:53 pm

The new behavior is fine for me however, there should be an "all lanes off" button at the top of the main window. This would tidy up scrolling vertically through tracks.
i7-3930k @3.20Ghz 16gb Win7 64x Cubase 7 Komplete8 Maschine Axon50 and 11 hardware synths
Mr M
Member
 
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby alexis » Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:03 pm

Mr M wrote:The new behavior is fine for me however, there should be an "all lanes off" button at the top of the main window. This would tidy up scrolling vertically through tracks.


Hi Mr. M - does it work for you because you don't need to see the grid through the part, or do you use a work-around for that?

Thanks -
Alexis

One way to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here.
- A more detailed explanation for how to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here!
- And here for MIDI

Some ways to render virtual instruments to audio here.

Tips Tricks and Workflow Goodness

CubaseTutorial.net - very nice collection of instructional youtubes

Cubase 7.5.20 64 bit; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W7 SP1 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio Drive; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo, Jamstix 3.3, BCF2K; TC Helicon VoiceOne; RevoicePro 2.5 Trial; 0.1 Woodlocked
alexis
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2250
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:55 pm
Has thanked: 91 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby cuboy » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:04 pm

OK, so I am a n00b and am going to ask a very n00b-ish question: What is the reason for using lanes over tracks? Because I'm assuming tracks don't have all of these issues....
cuboy
New Member
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:36 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:31 pm

cuboy wrote:OK, so I am a n00b and am going to ask a very n00b-ish question: What is the reason for using lanes over tracks? Because I'm assuming tracks don't have all of these issues....


Hi Cuboy
Lanes extend the functionality of tracks.... they are like "sub tracks" within a track.
Using multiple lanes of a single track has many advantages over using multiple tracks.
I suggest you have a look at the manual (p76 onwards) for more info, as it is really beyond the scope of this thread.

/FD
Guest
 

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby Guest » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:36 pm

Mr M wrote:The new behavior is fine for me however, there should be an "all lanes off" button at the top of the main window. This would tidy up scrolling vertically through tracks.


Yes I agree that more facilities are needed to show and hide all lanes. Some new key commands would be great. The current command set for lanes is woeful, and the display can get very messy, very quickly, with no quick way to hide all lanes and just show the top level tracks.
/FD
Guest
 

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby Guest » Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:13 pm

Mr M wrote:The new behavior is fine for me however, there should be an "all lanes off" button at the top of the main window. This would tidy up scrolling vertically through tracks.


Aha! It seems this CAN be done with the "project logical editor", which can show and hide lanes!

There is already a logical editor preset called "toggle lanes active", so I used that as a model and created a preset to hide all lanes and another to show all lanes. Assigned these to keyboard commands and I'm in lane toggling heaven! :)

/FD
Guest
 

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby nexis » Wed Apr 27, 2011 4:25 pm

I have to admit, I kind-of hate the new way cubase handles lanes. It does have a couple of nice things though. I like how you can, with 1 click, mute and unmute parts as you listen in cycle mode. I need to be able to split the takes WHERE I WANT TO and not all the same down the lane. I also like to move takes to other tracks with out it moving left or right out of time. I can't use my CTRL button anymore. Did they change this function to another button?

nexis
nexis
Junior Member
 
Posts: 156
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:49 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby Guest » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:48 am

JHP wrote:What is actually being asked in the pool (poll) is if one would rather have two things then one.
The answer might seem clear, two is better then one. ;) No, it's not. I'd rather have one awesome streamlined "piece of gear" on which the developers can focus and me as a user can utilize for all my usecases then having two pieces of gear that cause confusion and disorder for the developers and me as a user.


My dear JHP,

To achieve lane-independent cuts in C6, YOU ARE NOW TELLING US WE MUST USE TWO TOOLS INSTEAD OF ONE !!

This directly contradicts what you say in your post above!


Workflow before: (c5)
- Use scissors tool

Workflow now:
(c6)
- switch to range tool
- select zero - length range where you want the cut
- issue key command SHFT-X
- switch back to scissors tool

A better approach would be having a modifier for the scissors tool (eg SHIFT) that cuts the selected lanes only.
Then we CAN use one tool - THE SCISSORS instead of two tools (range tool plus scissors plus key commands)

;)
/FD
Guest
 

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby JHP » Thu May 05, 2011 10:58 am

JHP wrote:I'm not denying that there is some room for improvement....


FunkyDrummer wrote:
JHP wrote:What is actually being asked in the pool (poll) is if one would rather have two things then one.
The answer might seem clear, two is better then one. ;) No, it's not. I'd rather have one awesome streamlined "piece of gear" on which the developers can focus and me as a user can utilize for all my usecases then having two pieces of gear that cause confusion and disorder for the developers and me as a user.


My dear JHP,

To achieve lane-independent cuts in C6, YOU ARE NOW TELLING US WE MUST USE TWO TOOLS INSTEAD OF ONE !!

This directly contradicts what you say in your post above!


Workflow before: (c5)
- Use scissors tool

Workflow now:
(c6)
- switch to range tool
- select zero - length range where you want the cut
- issue key command SHFT-X
- switch back to scissors tool

A better approach would be having a modifier for the scissors tool (eg SHIFT) that cuts the selected lanes only.
Then we CAN use one tool - THE SCISSORS instead of two tools (range tool plus scissors plus key commands)

;)
/FD

Many people have different ways of cutting there material.
I for instance mostly stay with the object selection tool and hold "alt" so it temporarily becomes the scissor or I place the cursor (mostly by nudging on the groove with Ctrl+ Num+, and Ctrl+ Num-) and then hit Alt+X to cut.

Anyway, as this thread is not mainly about cutting, I have summarized the technical complaints and suggestions in this unfortunately a bit mazy thread and reported in essence the central points to the respective departments so they can be considered. Just to let you know that you are not being ignored. ;)

Thank you all for criticism and constructiveness, :)
Gr,
JHP
Jan Peters, QA
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook!
JHP
Moderator
 
Posts: 647
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:58 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby Elien » Thu May 05, 2011 1:27 pm

Hi,

It took me a while do see what is behind the wish of bringing "old style lane editing". I get it now.

The trouble started with a concept that was used for something it never had been inteded for - which is on the other hand encouraged by Steinberg ("You can decide what your workflow is"). To be more concrete here one example:

The drum editor in midi encourages to have all instruments in one single midi track. for convenience this directly implies that separating the instruments by using lanes is a good idea. On the other hand lanes where originally intended to allow comping of multiple takes of the same instrument/track. Do you see where the trouble starts? It is the ambiguity of concepts that leads to confusion.

Steinberg - with cubase 6 - obviously decided to have the lanes implementation for comping in the described sense and NOT for anything else. But this was possible in the past and even handy. Consequence is that users have to adapt their way of working - use separate tracks for what they have used lanes in the past. For midi drum recording this brings the drum editor under pressure: It would need a functionality that allows immediately to edit the whole drumset in one editor instance and at the same time separate the instruments to separate tracks. currently this is to my knowledge only possible by dissolving a given part (which contains multiple instruments, i.e. note values) to a couple of tracks by note value. (Here I have the question whether grove agent - an alternative to the drum editing in the arrange window - allows to control/create multiple tracks, one for each instrument).

I personally would prefare a clean concept, i.e. Lanes for multiple takes of the same instrument and comping. Other scenarios in editing would not have to be comprised in the lane-concept.

I do understand that this is a discontinuity in the way cubase could be used in the past. And I also understand that this hurts. But I would sacrificy continuity for the benefit of conceptual consistency in this case.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Cubase 7.5.10 on Win 7 ultimate 64 Bit, Intel i7, 2x Matrox Graphics Card, 5 Monitors. RME RayDat. Presonus Firestudio, DigimaxFS, Art Tube Preamp, Line6 x3 pro, lexicon mx400, Headphone preamp, Digipatch Digital Patchbay, TCHelicon VoicePro. Yamaha HS80M plus Subwoofer, Behringer MS40. Euphonix MC Control V2; Euphonix MC Mix, AKai MPD18, Novation RemoteSL 61, Novation Zero SL MKII, Automap 4. Yamaha Motif XF8; Komplete 9 Ultimate, GPO, Garritan Jazz&Bigband, ARC System, Miroslav Philharmonic, Jamstix, Various Applied Accoustic Instruments, Melodyne
Elien
Junior Member
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:31 pm
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 10 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby gse » Mon May 16, 2011 11:16 pm

This is timely for me as I've been discussing this issue with some friends lately. (with respect to audio; I do barely any MIDI.)

For me Cubase's (old) lanes behavior was perfect, and super elegant. I've found PT8's playlist features lacking in comparison; the Cubase way was automatic and simple and fast. It was great for building a comp out of 6 similar vocal takes but also for building a comp out of a dozen radically different guitar solos that you were chopping and reassembling.

So I had to laugh when I saw this in Sound on Sound's Cubase 6 review:

Image

I was like "Wait! They have it all backwards! And I love Cubase lanes and I never use cycle recording!"

Anyway, the new implementation has confused me a lot so far -- regions get auto-un-muted as I select them; scissors don't work well when multiple takes have different phrasings; etc.

I'm not interested in the inevitable internet fight that's happening in this thread, but I really loved the old feature. It never seemed unwieldily or confusing to me. I guess it was different than other DAWs, but I always found it to be better.
scott evans | antisleep | kowloon walled city | tape op magazine
gse
New Member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 9:55 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby mojord » Wed May 18, 2011 9:16 pm

I really hope this SWITCH gets added soon. In the meantime, back to C5!
There are some great uses of the NEW LANES, but not for all kinds of comping!
~ Mac Pro 8 core, OS 10.8.5, 2.66gHz, 16g RAM

~ 17" MacBook Pro, OS 10.9, 2.66gHz Intel i7, 8g RAM

Cubase 7, Wavelab 8
Apogee AD8000s, Steinberg 8 i/o, RME HDSP, UAD-2
mojord
New Member
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:56 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby hkh » Thu May 19, 2011 12:21 am

Agreed, I use v5 now mostly
hkh
New Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:15 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby GargoyleStudio » Thu May 19, 2011 12:46 am

Yeah, I hope they look again at the lanes. The old version was just simple, flexible and worked brillianly, it's not so flexible now. Comping adlibs recorded in a loop is tricky and also anything that involves musical interpretation, like recording a solo or singing words with different rythms. I'd like an option switch please.

Mike.
[Win7x64, Cb7.5]
GargoyleStudio
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1013
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:58 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby runeharpun » Thu May 19, 2011 11:47 am

GargoyleStudio wrote:Yeah, I hope they look again at the lanes.


Me too. But I hope the C6 way is kept (perhaps some tweaking, like bringing the ctrl+move back). But adding a C5 style lane behaviour in addition would complete my needs :)
runeharpun
Junior Member
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:28 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby ffg » Fri May 20, 2011 9:13 am

I spent several hours yesterday, with a client, editing some not-very-complex vocal takes. It was a complete nightmare. It's far too easy to unmute a lane by clicking on it without realising - the colour changes are far too subtle - shades of grey.

Moving lanes is now more difficult because Cmd-click (to lock lateral movement) now brings up the speaker, unless you click first, then Cmd, which risks an unintentional movement.

I'm not one who wants to go back to the old style because it was perfect, it wasn't, but for me the new system is unusable.
best

David

I'm going to to let the situation mature...

Nuendo 5.5
Cubase 7.5
MacPro 3.3 6-core OSX.9.x
MacPro 2.8 8-core OSX.8.x
Macbook Pro
RME Fireface 800
User avatar
ffg
Member
 
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:46 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby Guest » Fri May 20, 2011 10:49 am

I see this topic has now been moved to the "music lounge" forum !! :(

Music lounge is supposed to be for "General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics"

WTF?
Guest
 

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby Mr M » Fri May 20, 2011 4:16 pm

alexis wrote:
Mr M wrote:The new behavior is fine for me however, there should be an "all lanes off" button at the top of the main window. This would tidy up scrolling vertically through tracks.


Hi Mr. M - does it work for you because you don't need to see the grid through the part, or do you use a work-around for that?

Thanks -



Why would I need to see the grid through the part? The cursors have location info built in.
i7-3930k @3.20Ghz 16gb Win7 64x Cubase 7 Komplete8 Maschine Axon50 and 11 hardware synths
Mr M
Member
 
Posts: 688
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:07 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby alexis » Sat May 21, 2011 3:33 am

FunkyDrummer wrote:I see this topic has now been moved to the "music lounge" forum !! :(

Music lounge is supposed to be for "General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics"

WTF?


Hmm, interesting point.
Alexis

One way to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here.
- A more detailed explanation for how to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here!
- And here for MIDI

Some ways to render virtual instruments to audio here.

Tips Tricks and Workflow Goodness

CubaseTutorial.net - very nice collection of instructional youtubes

Cubase 7.5.20 64 bit; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W7 SP1 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio Drive; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo, Jamstix 3.3, BCF2K; TC Helicon VoiceOne; RevoicePro 2.5 Trial; 0.1 Woodlocked
alexis
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2250
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:55 pm
Has thanked: 91 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby alexis » Sun May 22, 2011 4:51 pm

Post deleted - posted in wrong thread.
Last edited by alexis on Sun May 22, 2011 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Alexis

One way to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here.
- A more detailed explanation for how to get variable-tempo audio to follow a grid here!
- And here for MIDI

Some ways to render virtual instruments to audio here.

Tips Tricks and Workflow Goodness

CubaseTutorial.net - very nice collection of instructional youtubes

Cubase 7.5.20 64 bit; i5-4570 3.2GHz, 16GB RAM; W7 SP1 64-bit on Samsung SSD 840 Pro 256GB; Seagate 1TB SATA 600 Audio Drive; UR28M; Motif8; UAD-2 Solo, Jamstix 3.3, BCF2K; TC Helicon VoiceOne; RevoicePro 2.5 Trial; 0.1 Woodlocked
alexis
Senior Member
 
Posts: 2250
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:55 pm
Has thanked: 91 times
Been thanked: 23 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby Guest » Fri May 27, 2011 4:43 pm

Hey Steiny! When will the fix be available for this ??

Will we get it any time soon? Or will you make us wait until Cubase 7?
Guest
 

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby toader » Sun May 29, 2011 6:49 am

I've been trying to adapt to the new lane behavior, but I have to admit, I just do not like it. It feels very uncomfortable to me. Also, I used to use the CTRL key to move events up and down without them moving in time. Now, that functionality is gone??? How do I do that now???

Wow... I usually try to give Steinberg the benefit of the doubt, but so far, I am really struggling with this new lane behavior. I seriously hope they change something soon. I hate it so much, that for the first time since I started using Cubase (sometime in the 1990s?), I am seriously considering going back one level to Cubase 5.

Also, it's depressing to log on here, and see that this thread has been put in the music lounge. Is the music lounge the place where they put threads they want to see disappear? Wow... I am very worried about all of this right now... and very frustrated.
toader
Member
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:37 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby toader » Sun May 29, 2011 6:54 am

Ok... I just discovered that the CTRL behavior still exists... now we just have to hold CTRL + SHIFT while dragging. Not a big deal... I don't remember seeing that in the manual though. I just discovered it by accident luckily. That helps some.

Still, I find the auto muting and automatic slicing of all events very difficult to work with. I wish it didn't do this.
toader
Member
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:37 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby toader » Mon May 30, 2011 8:49 am

So today I was comping some vocal takes... I had maybe 7 lanes or so. I went ahead and sliced everything up and had it all set with the proper parts playing. I save the project. I reopen the project. Now, for some reason, Cubase has put a bunch of the various slices onto new lanes... the vocal now has approximately 40 lanes... this is just weird. I'm not sure what happened or why it's suddenly like this. Oh well. At least it still works and the proper parts are playing. It's just awkward and I do not even understand what happened.
toader
Member
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 1:37 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: POLL: Would you like "old" style lane editing, as an option?

Postby Guest » Mon May 30, 2011 12:21 pm

toader wrote:So today I was comping some vocal takes... I had maybe 7 lanes or so. I went ahead and sliced everything up and had it all set with the proper parts playing. I save the project. I reopen the project. Now, for some reason, Cubase has put a bunch of the various slices onto new lanes... the vocal now has approximately 40 lanes... this is just weird. I'm not sure what happened or why it's suddenly like this. Oh well. At least it still works and the proper parts are playing. It's just awkward and I do not even understand what happened.


There's a thread about that here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7352
Guest
 

PreviousNext

Return to Steinberg Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest