this'll change everything 14 nov

General discussions on songwriting, mixing, music business and other music related topics.

Enter low-cost same-site facilities expansion

Postby Patanjali » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:00 am

Luis Dongo wrote:He gets it :)

A scenario that is unlikely to work well for most
Sounds like a nice idea, but high end people will do things in their own time frame, rather than having to fit around someone in another place. Once you get over a few milliseconds latency, real-time is lost, so why force everyone to hang around while one does their 'thing'. Such things require good organisation and everybody to be on the ball.

And experience of video conferencing ought to be a warning to not expect too much from an actual sessions: jumpy video and emotional disconnection (unless you REALLY get on well with the others).

Boon for the large numbers of low end users to expand facilities VERY cheaply
I really see the ability to work real-time across a GbE LAN connection in the same building, but different rooms to be the REAL benefit. It enables all those bedroom/hobby musos to incrementally expand their facilities, without complicated and awkward cable runs. Audio isolation for those on a budget!

I think this scenario is the one that will benefit many more than using the promoted one. I was looking at going the Dante route when I needed to up the game from the Firewire RME FireFaces when they or Firewire outwore its welcome (disappeared off motherboards). But Dante ONLY handles audio, not ALL the other comms needed for a session.
This new facility means that when upgrading one's main computer, the old one could be used (after some silencing treatment), with its audio interface, as a studio PC running VST Connect Performer. The control room does not need lots of connections, so even a USB2 device may well suffice.

Just the Dante 'audio' card is $1000, and then add expensive excessively-provisioned (thinking Focusrite RED series here at $2000+ each) remote audio interfaces. A $200 plugin plus some Intel/Gigabyte mini-ATX i5 Brix-type PCs with their own USB audio interfaces seems downright affordable! Or even use a touch all-in-one PC.

Can the audio LAN be isolated?
One issue is whether the master system can bind the audio to a particular Ethernet adaptor with its own subnet, so that audio traffic and hardware can be separate from general network traffic.
Last edited by Patanjali on Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby curteye » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:13 am

My point was:
if this all works as planned/ very easy to set-up and operate.

If the tech ain't happinin' then mucho probs for sure.

But if Steiny has the tech 'down' and this works as advertised;
this could be a very convenient way of having musical collaboration.
Hi end people like convenient.

as an old guy who has 'been around', you would be surprised at the number
of 'famous' people you can get to play on yer stuff, if you just offer enough
$$ and keep their names off it. Famous does not mean rich.

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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby BriHar » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:35 am

I wouldn't discount the quality of the sound completely - this is definitely an important point that the audio can be recorded in HD!
The Midi is great and immediately got me thinking that I know a few guys with some very unique, custom and/or nearly impossible to find now rare synths, this would allow me to actually play those synths (in other countries) from my studio - fantastic!
This could, if you think a little further out of the box, even open new sources of revenue for synth museums and collectors, not to mention a new kind of session booking for studios.
Yes you'll see, it will change so much - just as VST did!
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby David L » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:24 am

If ReWire VST had been VST3 this could have had some very interesting symbiotic usages :)
(Say for instance that you're a cubaser that happens to work with someone who's a Reasoner)

Or Live 9 or whatever..
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby Mauri » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:37 am

Bredo wrote:My 3 cents (I'm waiting for a comment on this from .ence..... - smart**s ;-))

I think not, at least until mummy has finished changing his nappy (diaper for the yanks) ;) !

Just funnin'

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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby HowlingUlf » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:16 pm

Nothing stops some large scale VERY PROFESSIONAL studios in say Vancouver, München and Perth to interconnect for peanuts? It wouldn't even be visible in a pie chart of the spendings the year it happened. If you have the budget for the rest of the project you can send a 19" rack in a flightcase along with an engineer to some location with great acoustics/famous instruments/both and Bob is your uncle. It almost seems ... this changes everything! ;)

But you don't have to ...
So you don't
And save all the $$$ 8-)
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby mr.roos » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:40 pm

Hm. Well, I loved the drummer in the video, he is a first rate studio player. And it's possible that you might know someone somewhere in the world that has a facility like he has at his disposal. But it all falls apart for me right there. Because I don't have the kind of bank (money) to pay for the use of that studio for, hm, say one or two hours? Three? I dare say most of you here would not spend that money either.

The midi idea is interesting, sure. But that Yamaha in the studio cost big money, too. Synthesizers of the collectable nature in the hands of friends could be cool, or maybe some facility that didn't have a great sound room, perhaps.

As to getting BB or Eric to play on one of your tracks? Please be serious. Joe Bonamassa doesn't even have his (Eric's)phone number.

Well, it's an interesting idea, I agree. I am sure Mikail (in the video) and songwriters and producers of this nature and background will be able to use this product very well - because he is Steinberg and he is CONNECTED because of Steinberg. Good for him. But see also how studio time for these sessions was not discussed. The sax player was in her home - looked like it - and I could see that being peer to peer, cool, but not those studios. You and I would have to pay big money. Well, maybe $300+ per track is not big money to you. Anyway, IMO, the best thing this will do is perhaps encourage some future where you - as a Cubase user - will cause you to connect to your peers here. Folks who may have a talent or an instrument you can use on a track and who won't charge you anything. Ha, is even this possible?

So not a game changer for me. I will continue to pool the local talent in my town when needed and bring them here. And that's my last point. When I do bring a drummer here, or say a horn player, I am all theirs for the time it takes to get the track. I treat them like Kings and Queens, buy/serve them lunch/dinner whatever, because they are helping me get something accomplished that I need to accomplish. If I called them up and said , 'hey, could you please set up your kit and I will send you a part I need along with the demo track, and then get out all your $1000 mics (which they don't have) and plug yourself into your console (which they don't have) and call up an engineer friend to oversee the mic setup and the recording......' Are you kidding? It won't happen. And the interaction we would have had, lunch, etc., won't happen either.

....But very quickly, as I think about it, I could see how $$ might quickly take it's place. Great, another opportunity for commerce to interface with friendships! No, no thanks. But I love Cubase, Steinberg!! :D :D
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby mozizo » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:51 pm

Luis Dongo wrote:
curteye wrote:Aloha guys. Just to chime in.
Oedipus Driftpunch wrote:The world is my studio.


That's what this whole thing is about.

"Steve Vai and Herbie Hanc0ck came to my bedroom and played on a track for me".

1-Imagine if your client was willing to pay $$ for
George Benson (from his home laptop) to play over the sketch guit part you wrote
or Steve Gadd play over your basic drum groove etc.

2-Or you are a classical pianist and now you actually playing/recording
that million $ piano in Veinna or Paris or New York etc
(in your housecoat and underware at 4am) :) via MIDI.

To create an outline of a song and get some of the greatest
musicians in the world (or nice players/friends you know) to do the actual playing on it is IMHO
truly a game changer.

Of course all licensing and $$ issues would have to be negotiated first but
imagine being able to say:
'I've got a session scheduled with Leo Kottke and B.B. King coming up'.
And really mean it. :)

And the door is now wide open for 'vox's'.

So many of us create great work but can't sing very well (or at all).
I can imagine a 'data base' of singers all around the world
waiting and willing to give our work a go.
Kinda like a plug-in; if you don't like that one, just try another one.

He gets it :)

so what next steinberg ?? VST CONNECT cosmic ? playing with aliens ! maybe "the great gig in the sky" thing, let jimi hendrix record for you from heaven (or hell :mrgreen: ) !! :D
but seriously no doubt steinberg is an innovator and pioneer in mind 8-)
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby Strophoid » Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:35 pm

I know some great singers who would love to collab in this way but they don't have the high quality mic and audio interface for it, so I'll still have to bring em in.
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby papi61 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:37 am

None of the studios I work with use Cubase (or want to use it, sadly...), so even if I can see the potential usefulness of this software, it literally changes nothing to me. And I suppose that 90% of Cubase users who aren't professional composers don't even use session men, so to them it will never change anything, even if all the studios in the world were suddenly equipped with this technology.
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby jaslan » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:29 am

papi61 wrote:None of the studios I work with use Cubase (or want to use it, sadly...), so even if I can see the potential usefulness of this software, it literally changes nothing to me. And I suppose that 90% of Cubase users who aren't professional composers don't even use session men, so to them it will never change anything, even if all the studios in the world were suddenly equipped with this technology.

FWIW, I don't think they need to have Cubase. They just need the free "Performer" application. I assume it let's them set up VST Connections to their interface there and feeds those to your project.
I may be misunderstanding though.
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby Woodcrest Studio » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:53 pm

There's a lot of great opinions and tns of speculation in this thread. It will be interesting how this will evolve and the direction Steinberg will take to market it to.... Their target. I hope it is not solely for remote recording via the Internet. I am very interested in this if it will bring higher quality and a better work flow for the remote people I have to connect to sessions.

Since the other thread I asked this question got closed, I will ask it again here:

Will multiple people be able to be connected to a session? In my case, a producer and script writer connecting to me to work on a project?
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby jamusic » Sat Nov 16, 2013 5:54 pm

I haven't watched this video but...

...Remember the NPR Delicious Dish skits on SNL with Ana Gasteyer and Molly Shannon?...

I remember the episode where Alec Baldwin was on with them as Mr. Shweaty and the subject of discussion was his 'Shweaty Balls'. :lol:
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby Outsounder » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:36 pm

Ohm studio, far more fun for on line collaboration, try it, think you'll like it
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Re: this'll change everything 14 nov

Postby sonicstate » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:48 am

Yes. Ohm Studio came to my mind first after seeing this Steinberg connect. Ohm Studio is far more elegant, and it is free afaik. For simply trying out different ideas with different people, for fun and so, ohm studio seems far more friendly.
VST Connect seems to be useful more at connections between pro studio facilities, but it is not advertised as such, so it is a bit confuzing to me. Also general advertisments for Cubase obviously aim at home studios, bands and artists, hobbyists and such.

Anyway, I'd like to see in Cubase more midi auto phrase options like the new chord track, which is genius, no other DAW has anything like it. And that midi phrase arpegiator, that is great thing. There is a plugin called Catanya that is useful, but something like that, integrated within cubase would be awesome. If phrase arpegiator would be available to all in cubase as plugin, with ability to change phrases via midi on the fly (like Ableton can switch scenes and clips via midi), it would be great addition to chord track.
I think cubase needs to focus more and more on creation part of production process. Like Logic now has drummer plugin. I could use nice drummer plugin in Cubase, basically a midi switchable phrase player. You just sit down, press some keys, and immediately it sounds fine. Same could be done for bass, where phase player would follow chords. Same for strings and so on. I'd really appreciate such tools which would make my songwriting much easier and more fun.
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