VST 2 SDK backup link

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VST 2 SDK backup link

Postby S0lo » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:27 am

As for Steniberg's announcement of the removal of the VST 2 SDK link:

http://www.steinberg.net/en/newsandeven ... -2631.html

What if an established developer who has already produced VST 2 plugins and had tons of code depending on it, accidentally lost his copy of the VST SDK 2. Say a hard drive crash or the like. Is it really wise to prevent him from having access to it. Sure he might get it from a friend but I recon that's not an official/legal way to get the SDK.

I personally think that Steniberg should restudy their decision. At least provide a non-official backup link or forum link so that these developers can still get it.
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Re: VST 2 SDK backup link

Postby Elektrobolt » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:02 pm

VST 3.5 came out in 2011, VST 3.0 in 2008, VST 2.4 was released in 2006 and however sucky it is for a developer, I actually agree with Steinberg. It's time to move on. It's been time to move on for quite some time.

Don't get me wrong, as a fellow developer I understand the dilemma, but I am also a consumer, and I rather get what I want for my money than just another upgrade. VST 3.5 has got something *I* like a lot, Note Expression.

It's just *my* opinion. Good luck with your future developments, I hope to see something awesome!!!
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Re: VST 2 SDK backup link

Postby S0lo » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:22 pm

Thanks for your nice comments,

It's time to move on. It's been time to move on for quite some time.


Sure, but isn't that the choice of the developer himself? Why should a developer be INDIRECTLY forced to use a new technology. May be his/her plugin don't really need any of the new improvements in VST 3, why should he waste time studying VST 3 while he could be improving his plugin.

When Microsoft introduced the MFC and then .NET platform. They did not remove the Win32 API. up until today, a developer can still use the Win32 API, which usually runs faster.

When Sun introduced Swing, they did not remove AWT. Developers slowly saw the advantages and moved to Swing.

If plugin developers are still stuck with VST 2, and are not moving to VST 3. Then there is either a LACK OF NEED, or there is a PROBLEM in moving. I think Steinberg should do a better job in convincing developers to move. Show really what VST3 means to them and their investment. One critical improvement is often better than ten other usually not used features.
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Re: VST 2 SDK backup link

Postby Elektrobolt » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:31 am

S0lo wrote:Thanks for your nice comments,

It's time to move on. It's been time to move on for quite some time.


Sure, but isn't that the choice of the developer himself? Why should a developer be INDIRECTLY forced to use a new technology. May be his/her plugin don't really need any of the new improvements in VST 3, why should he waste time studying VST 3 while he could be improving his plugin.

When Microsoft introduced the MFC and then .NET platform. They did not remove the Win32 API. up until today, a developer can still use the Win32 API, which usually runs faster.

When Sun introduced Swing, they did not remove AWT. Developers slowly saw the advantages and moved to Swing.

If plugin developers are still stuck with VST 2, and are not moving to VST 3. Then there is either a LACK OF NEED, or there is a PROBLEM in moving. I think Steinberg should do a better job in convincing developers to move. Show really what VST3 means to them and their investment. One critical improvement is often better than ten other usually not used features.

Any established developer would keep their own backups of their setups. If they only have one copy on one hard drive, I would say that such a developer isn't very serious, or does not have a lot of experience and might as well go VST3. ;)

There has been many discussion with various reasons why many developers have not moved to VST3 and I would say that the most piercing reasons are that "VST 2.4 could've been tweaked to accommodate most VST3 features", that "there are not enough hosts supporting VST3" or that "there isn't enough demand for VST3". If we always follow this trail, we would never get anything new. Be happy that Steinberg has platinum balls to do these things! :)

As far as all those other examples of keeping the past, how do look at Microsoft's Windows RT?
(I would say that they are in the same league as Steinberg in terms of sizable cojones.)
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Re: VST 2 SDK backup link

Postby S0lo » Wed Dec 25, 2013 5:37 pm

Any established developer would keep their own backups of their setups. If they only have one copy on one hard drive, I would say that such a developer isn't very serious, or does not have a lot of experience and might as well go VST3. ;)


Sure, and Steinberg is also an established SDK developer, so I think they should also keep a backup copy for their clients ;). On the other hand, not all developers are established developers, hundreds of vst developers are just single programmers working in spare time from home to do a vst or two. I believe Steinberg supports all, not just ESTABLISHED developers.

Even an established developer can possibly have a disasterus situation where a whole building burns or some thing like that. No backup will help you here unless its stored at homes or some where else.

There has been many discussion with various reasons why many developers have not moved to VST3 and I would say that the most piercing reasons are that "VST 2.4 could've been tweaked to accommodate most VST3 features", that "there are not enough hosts supporting VST3" or that "there isn't enough demand for VST3". If we always follow this trail, we would never get anything new. Be happy that Steinberg has platinum balls to do these things!


The idea is simple. I think it's fundamentally wrong to pull a critical piece of software such as an SDK just to let the flow move to the next level. Provide enough reason for the flow to move up and they will surly gradually move. Developers are not naive, if they feel Strindberg is forcing (allthough it's not) they will think so.

As far as all those other examples of keeping the past, how do look at Microsoft's Windows RT?
(I would say that they are in the same league as Steinberg in terms of sizable cojones.)


As far as I know, Windows RT does not throw the Win32 API away. Win32 API is at the core of Windows libraries, without it no program will work, including VST3 or VST2. It's solid rock into the heart of Windows. Microsoft occasionally adds new functions to it, or declares a few old functions as obsolete while still keeping them, BUT NOT totally remove it. Thats what you do with an SDK, it's not an ordinary piece of software, too much depends on it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: VST 2 SDK backup link

Postby Reiknir » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:29 pm

S0lo wrote:
As far as I know, Windows RT does not throw the Win32 API away. Win32 API is at the core of Windows libraries, without it no program will work, including VST3 or VST2. It's solid rock into the heart of Windows. Microsoft occasionally adds new functions to it, or declares a few old functions as obsolete while still keeping them, BUT NOT totally remove it. Thats what you do with an SDK, it's not an ordinary piece of software, too much depends on it.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


WinRT does indeed throw the old Windows Win32 and Win64 API away and even most of the old NET API's (there is some cohabitation however in regards to NET) There is not even MIDI support in RT 8.1 SDK, they promised it and beta versions had rudimentary MIDI support but it had been thrown away in the release. If you want to use a hardware keyboard you will have to write application specific drivers for the keyboard for instance. Which is nuts, you cannot write generic drivers because there are no generics. Real time, low latency audio support was added in 8.1, but not a full implementation , just enough to get Skype going.

There is the option of communication with old windows API's via bridge software and that is what the MS team recommends for communications stuff, but because of the real time aspects that is not acceptable for audio programming

I had actually started writing a simple MIDI editor for my old Kawai synths before I actually realised that there was no MIDI support available .......
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