Questionair - January 2014

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Questionair - January 2014

Postby Rommelaar » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:56 pm

I just filled out the questionnaire Steinberg has their webpage and gave them some honest feedback. I recommend you people to do the same. Quite a few interesting topics and once you have answered them, you'll understand that they are looking at their business model. By all that this good on this earth I hope they stay away from pushing the subscription model onto me. Then I am out. Call me old-fashioned :lol: , but I like to own my stuff.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby SteveInChicago » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:16 pm

I filled it out too. I agree with Rommelaar, I much prefer to own the product and to be able to sell my license. There's more to the survey than that too. Here's a link: http://www.steinberg.net/en/newsandeven ... -2666.html
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby ChrisW » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:38 pm

Thanks for the heads up - I've filled the survey in. I agree about ownership - at least you've got the option of deciding not to upgrade, but still being able to use the software. I do like the Logic Pro model of downloading additional content as you go, though this probably applies more to HALion.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby G-string » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:51 pm

No way would i want a subscription based licence , i want to own the software im using .
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby curteye » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:50 am

Aloha guys,
Saw this (or something similar) coming back in August.
viewtopic.php?f=198&t=46183&hilit=+would+you+pay

And IMHO this is just the start.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby SteveInChicago » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:11 am

The rent question is just one of many in the survey, but certainly the one that is making the the most news.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby curteye » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:57 am

SteveInChicago wrote:The rent question is just one of many in the survey, but certainly the one that is making the the most news.


Yes but looks like the road is clearing before us. (renting/buying etc)

(Steiny's) Question is, do we take it?
And so far according to this thread, users say no!
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BTW being an old hippie I was taught to always lie on surveys. Ha! :) :) :)
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby suntower » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:01 am

Gee, I never got one. :D

It's weird that they don't send out newsletters.

But wrt 'rent v. buy', it's not 'if' but 'when'.

Some companies have done it and provided added value to customers. Others just use it as a way to lock in revenue. SB must think it has something of a captive audience... perhaps they're correct.

I have to admit, the first couple years of Adobe's Creative Cloud were good... because they knew a LOT of people wouldn't bite they've just PILED ON added features and cool extras. If you're the kind who upgrades with every version automatically, it's been a good deal.

My fear with SB is that, frankly, they always act stretched so thin. I would NEVER object to paying a bit more if an SAAS approach yielded more features/fixes VALUE. I never mind paying for VALUE. But if they went to SAAS with the same levels of service? That would -definitely- be the impetus to do some comparison shopping---which I haven't done in years.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby Prock » Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:27 am

suntower wrote:It's weird that they don't send out newsletters.


I was thinking the same thing then I found a place to sign up for a newsletter. Login to My Steinberg>My Newsletter.

Also voted "No" for rent.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby suntower » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:45 am

I sense a pattern... they obviously didn't import settings from their old software. :D


Prock wrote:
suntower wrote:It's weird that they don't send out newsletters.


I was thinking the same thing then I found a place to sign up for a newsletter. Login to My Steinberg>My Newsletter.

Also voted "No" for rent.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby sycophant » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:58 am

The question about starting with the basic package and downloading additional content for free?

:?

As for subscription vs owning the software:

At home I like to *own* things, whereas at work I only want to impress my friends. 8-)
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby MovingWaves » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:39 am

Questionair done.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby Strophoid » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:48 pm

Thanks for posting this, I would've missed it otherwise.
I too voted against rent. The system isn't bad per se, but it's only worth it if you actually want the latest updates all the time, otherwise you're paying for the development of features you won't be using. I'm still on 6.5 on purpose, because 7 doesn't seem much of an improvement in what I need. I would probably have paid more for 6.5 by now if I had been renting it, than what it cost me to use 6.5 since release from buying it.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby DannyDep » Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:23 pm

Got an email asking to take the Survey this morning.
Just like most surveys there's not much of a chance to voice your opinion.
Just pick a choice even if it doesn't match your concerns.
Thought it was very interesting to list as the last question one regarding subscriptions.

I can see it now.
Along with subscriptions I can see the products, Cubase for example, being offered on a function by function basis.
I mean like, if you want to record, that process will cost you $19.95.
What's that, you want a mixer? That will be $14.99 please.

I'm just a hobbyist user and understand that my views will not be considers as much as those of you who use Steinberg products on a professional level
and rightly so.
Having said that, I am so glad that I purchased a Cross-grade of Studio One back in December.
I've been using Cubase since 1989 when the original developers managed the company.
That was the main reason I purchased Studio One as those guys are involved with it.

Call me cynical, but I have a feeling that the Steinberg board has already made it's decision about subscriptions.
Good luck everyone.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby blackcat » Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:46 pm

I just did the survey, and also prefer buying software outright to a subscription model.

I hope SB never stop selling perpetual licenses, even if they do offer a cloud version. I do graphic work as well as music, and Abobe have lost me as a customer thanks to their idiotic decision to force Creative Cloud on everyone (and there's a huge complaint thread on Adobe's forum that has been active for months, which SB should read if they want to know how people feel about being forced to rent their software). I'd hate for Cubase to go the same way.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby curteye » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:12 am

IMHO,
in one form or another this thang is fast approaching!

But might not be so bad for the casual user.
(pro users get their $$ back from the clients anyway).

As DannyDep posted:
I can see it now.
Along with subscriptions I can see the products, Cubase for example, being offered on a function by function basis.
I mean like, if you want to record, that process will cost you $19.95.
What's that, you want a mixer? That will be $14.99 please.


Buy the base package. MIDI/Audio recording.

Then add (rent/buy) ala cart features as needed:
Scoring/notation.......Y/N
VST Instruments........Y/N
Loops/Beats.........................Y/N
FXs......................................Y/N
Communications (VST Connect)............Y/N
Additional Samples (Halion)................Y/N
Additional audio tools (Wavelab etc).....Y/N
You get the point.

And this may also happen with some hi-end 3rd party products as well.
Can't afford Omni or Ivory or East/West or Waves etc,
well just rent them for the day or week or month etc.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby swamptone » Fri Jan 24, 2014 2:32 am

Hmmmmmmm. Maybe I'd better keep those obsolete modular digital hardware recorders and 32 channel in-line mixer after all.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby ALSTUDIOS » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:27 am

DannyDep wrote:I can see it now.
Along with subscriptions I can see the products, Cubase for example, being offered on a function by function basis.
I mean like, if you want to record, that process will cost you $19.95.
What's that, you want a mixer? That will be $14.99 please.


Hi

Just as an experience with so called "web certified software"....

In the gaming world, e.g. Simcity by EA, this kind of business model is already in place.
I own one copy and are gaming it from time to time.

First limitation - no internet, no use :roll:
Second limitation/frustration -
If I start-up the game after some while, there is always a hugh download package with some fixes to do first - can take 30 minutes or more. No bypass, no work around :oops:

MMhh, I just imagine to start Cubase and have to wait for half an hour before I can use it :(
Not my kind of understanding of an ownerhip after buying something ;)


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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby suntower » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:57 am

The conspiracy theories go way back. About 10 years ago on the old forum there was much grousing about 'dongle calls'.

There was a period during SX3/SX4 where Cubase went through a serious reliability crisis. Part of it was that the 'dongle' phoned home literally every few seconds.

Adobe's system works well... you can use it on several machines without 'dongles'. And they do provide added value for their 'cloud' deal.

-However-, unlike Cubase, their prices are 'professional'. They cost what they cost because they are in line with what people pay for what they need to make a living. People who make a living doing graphics don't find their costs exorbitant at all. So comparing Creative Suite with Cubase (which is mainly sold to amateurs) is not apt. It would be fairer to say that Adobe Elements is like Cubase and Creative Suite is more like Nuendo.

And Adobe, being much larger, does a much better job of outreach. They have conferences and meetups and all manner of systems to show they are 'listening' to customers. Whether true or not, they make one -feel- like they are and that has smoothed many feathers. Frankly, when Adobe cloud came out I expected open revolt. Nope. --Most- (not all) guys seem to take it in stride.

SB ain't 'American' like that. They're like NI and RME, etc.

What kills me about Nuendo (while I'm ranting) is that you'd expect their customer service and fora and so on to be more 'Lexus' to Cubase's 'Toyota'. But it appears not. I never switched to Nuendo, not only because I don't see the feature benefits, but also because for the extra dosh, I expected that one would be getting more personal attention, faster release cycles, better docs, etc. But one doesn't. It's simply a different feature set. IOW: you're not treated 'more special'. Maybe that's good from one POV, but it's -bad- from another POV. Adobe can ask higher fees because beyond the features, the perception really -is- more 'pro'.

In short: the companies that have done well with 'the cloud' have succeeded by providing great customer service. That's gonna be a challenge for SB... they make great products, but 'service with a smile' they are not.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby HowlingUlf » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:06 am

If I've paid for it I want to own it. I can't guess what's about to happen in the future so I do not want anything stop working because I happened not to want to upgrade at a specific point in time, for whatever reason. I might want to upgrade later but if I agree to go with this model I'm beyond the point of no return.

We're also reaching a point where it's hard for an application like Cubase to be significantly "better" (as opposed to "more") so there's a point in keeping one eye at the wheel and one one the road. I think I need to check if I really need new versions after this one. It's already freakin' awesome like it is, and I've paid for it. To jump on a subscription model now ... naw! I don't wanna tie myself to the whipping post!

I don't remember but wasn't there another question about a modular model as well. Buy modules as you need them or something like that? I kind of like that one. It's a little like IK Multimedia Amplitube and T-rackS? I'm not sure how that will work out in a totally different program like Cubase but it's interesting.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby suntower » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:25 am

I too thought of IK... On paper it sounds good.

But I -loathe- their 'Custom Shop' system of licensing and will likely never buy anything from them again because of it. It has proven to be quite unreliable.

Their customer support is always understanding when it fails and I tolerate it because I don't use their stuff too often. But if those kinds of hiccoughs happened with Cubase? I wouldn't be using Cubase.

HowlingUlf wrote:If I've paid for it I want to own it. I can't guess what's about to happen in the future so I do not want anything stop working because I happened not to want to upgrade at a specific point in time, for whatever reason. I might want to upgrade later but if I agree to go with this model I'm beyond the point of no return.

We're also reaching a point where it's hard for an application like Cubase to be significantly "better" (as opposed to "more") so there's a point in keeping one eye at the wheel and one one the road. I think I need to check if I really need new versions after this one. It's already freakin' awesome like it is, and I've paid for it. To jump on a subscription model now ... naw! I don't wanna tie myself to the whipping post!

I don't remember but wasn't there another question about a modular model as well. Buy modules as you need them or something like that? I kind of like that one. It's a little like IK Multimedia Amplitube and T-rackS? I'm not sure how that will work out in a totally different program like Cubase but it's interesting.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby HowlingUlf » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:56 am

suntower wrote:I too thought of IK... On paper it sounds good.

But I -loathe- their 'Custom Shop' system of licensing and will likely never buy anything from them again because of it. It has proven to be quite unreliable.

Their customer support is always understanding when it fails and I tolerate it because I don't use their stuff too often. But if those kinds of hiccoughs happened with Cubase? I wouldn't be using Cubase.

HowlingUlf wrote:If I've paid for it I want to own it. I can't guess what's about to happen in the future so I do not want anything stop working because I happened not to want to upgrade at a specific point in time, for whatever reason. I might want to upgrade later but if I agree to go with this model I'm beyond the point of no return.

We're also reaching a point where it's hard for an application like Cubase to be significantly "better" (as opposed to "more") so there's a point in keeping one eye at the wheel and one one the road. I think I need to check if I really need new versions after this one. It's already freakin' awesome like it is, and I've paid for it. To jump on a subscription model now ... naw! I don't wanna tie myself to the whipping post!

I don't remember but wasn't there another question about a modular model as well. Buy modules as you need them or something like that? I kind of like that one. It's a little like IK Multimedia Amplitube and T-rackS? I'm not sure how that will work out in a totally different program like Cubase but it's interesting.


:o

Ooops! I upgraded to Amplitube 3 and thought of maybe getting some more stuff some day but maybe I should think twice or check it out more thoroughly before?
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby sycophant » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:29 pm

There's plenty of room for improvement, let's not forget the mixer but also enhancements to the MIDI editors could be made that integrate Time Signature and Tempo Tracks, plus markers in the Audio Editor.
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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby suntower » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:05 pm

YMMV. I find some of their products to be best of breed. It's just their licensing system that stinks. Perhaps it's -my- PC. I've had similar issues with NI's 'Service Center'. Others have none. My only point is that 'licensing' seems to take up -so- much of the oxygen with DAW software and it's puzzling to me that there are so -many- systems and almost none of them are -simple-.

My ire with IK is that they work so hard to make it 'fun to try and buy!' that it becomes a pain.

It's puzzling to me that the world has gone so 'app'... dead simple interfaces... whilst most DAW companies still stick with these Rube Goldberg approaches. I thought young people would demand simplicity.

---JC

HowlingUlf wrote:
suntower wrote:I too thought of IK... On paper it sounds good.

But I -loathe- their 'Custom Shop' system of licensing and will likely never buy anything from them again because of it. It has proven to be quite unreliable.

Their customer support is always understanding when it fails and I tolerate it because I don't use their stuff too often. But if those kinds of hiccoughs happened with Cubase? I wouldn't be using Cubase.

HowlingUlf wrote:If I've paid for it I want to own it. I can't guess what's about to happen in the future so I do not want anything stop working because I happened not to want to upgrade at a specific point in time, for whatever reason. I might want to upgrade later but if I agree to go with this model I'm beyond the point of no return.

We're also reaching a point where it's hard for an application like Cubase to be significantly "better" (as opposed to "more") so there's a point in keeping one eye at the wheel and one one the road. I think I need to check if I really need new versions after this one. It's already freakin' awesome like it is, and I've paid for it. To jump on a subscription model now ... naw! I don't wanna tie myself to the whipping post!

I don't remember but wasn't there another question about a modular model as well. Buy modules as you need them or something like that? I kind of like that one. It's a little like IK Multimedia Amplitube and T-rackS? I'm not sure how that will work out in a totally different program like Cubase but it's interesting.


:o

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Re: Questionair - January 2014

Postby HowlingUlf » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:52 am

suntower wrote: with these Rube Goldberg approaches.

:lol: no doubt!
Amplitube is great, Custom shop ... isn't!
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