the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

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the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby lukasbrooklyn » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:53 am

this feels a bit lame. using buried existing features and rebranding them as new selling points is weak. one example being (quoting SB's marketing lingo): "you can now tab to transients like in pro tools in c7.5." this is no different to what c6 already does, going to keycommands, transport > locate next / previous hitpoint. now cubase c7.5 also automatically calculates the hitpoints on imported audio events. that was possible before as well, using a keycommand. same as actually dissolving the hitpoints. the only difference is, now the process gets slower because this is done automatically, whether you actually want the program to spend time on it or not (you probably dont want it when editing speech, for instance).

this was similar to when c6.5 introduced warp quantizing from the arrange. same story, command had been already buried among keycommands. it had been easy to program a macro with 'calculate hitpoints, convert them to warptabs, perform warp quantize' in one go. then sb added a button for these three commands and sold it as c6.5.

compiling a macro and making it a button new version does not a-make. what do you reckon?
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby distante » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:11 am

Interesting...
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby mozizo » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:28 am

Well, i didn't " investigate" this, but its known that companies exaggerating about new features("Game changer" an so on *flower*) or even "new" features is disguise.
Thats how they sell their product !
its not completely new but its achievable in "faster" or less intervention way like in Tab to transients !
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby curteye » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:35 am

mozizo wrote:Thats how they sell their product !


+1
and mahalo to the OP for those valid (and totally missed by many of us) points.

'Art is work. To sell it is art'.

IMHO 'marketing' is an art form all its own.
And Steiny seems to be pretty good at it.
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby SteveInChicago » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:25 am

lukasbrooklyn wrote:this feels a bit lame. using buried existing features ... automatically calculates the hitpoints on imported audio events. that was possible before as well, using a keycommand ... now the process gets slower because this is done automatically, whether you actually want the program to spend time on it or not (you probably dont want it when editing speech, for instance).

I replied about a year ago In an FR thread, viewtopic.php?f=182&t=36292#p232218, where users asked for this to be a dedicated command and SB granted it, and then advertised it as new. Ironic, but wasn't it SB "listening to its users?" I've responded to FRs with a DIY solution and people respond that they want to have a feature as default – even when it can be made with the PLE and/or macros.

And of course the automatic detection can be turned off. (the extra data actually slowed down saves iirc)
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby lukasbrooklyn » Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:51 am

SteveInChicago wrote:
lukasbrooklyn wrote:this feels a bit lame. using buried existing features ... automatically calculates the hitpoints on imported audio events. that was possible before as well, using a keycommand ... now the process gets slower because this is done automatically, whether you actually want the program to spend time on it or not (you probably dont want it when editing speech, for instance).

I replied about a year ago In an FR thread, viewtopic.php?f=182&t=36292#p232218, where users asked for this to be a dedicated command and SB granted it, and then advertised it as new. Ironic, but wasn't it SB "listening to its users?" I've responded to FRs with a DIY solution and people respond that they want to have a feature as default – even when it can be made with the PLE and/or macros.

And of course the automatic detection can be turned off. (the extra data actually slowed down saves iirc)


that's good, i didn't remember that thread. i understand it, but the lingo "you can now do this and that" feels inapropropriate when anyone could have been doing it for years. ;)
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby SteveInChicago » Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:04 am

Yes, it appears they feel the market they are talking to are not folks who like to dig around in key commands and tinker about with macros. I'm cool with that, I want them to sell many units and make money to use for adding (hu)manhours to the development of existant features. ;)

On the other hand, they have added stuff like track variations, multi-out Instrument tracks, Score MIDI inspector, new PLE and Logical editor conditions/actions for the C7 cycle, so it's not all hype. In fact they seem to negelct to advertise some things that would be as big as MemZap to some people- like the suspend-snap modifier key they added in C7, clamoring for that feature went on for years, yet some people still didn't know about it a year after it was added.

What would be really good would be having more enhanced documentation.
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby Plasuma » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:23 am

Well, consider that Steinberg want to highlight what's popular about an audio workflow without doing too much work.

I didn't buy 6.5 because I didn't see a reason for it when I had 6 - but I did buy 7.5 immediately, mainly because I liked the new GASE and integration it offers. I thought I'd like the new way track Instruments worked, too, and while it does function and I do like it, VSTs in general are a bit too buggy for me to use in anything big.

The odd workflow enhancements like adding a new something-something in the prefs only annoys me when they set it to default, but it being possible already by other means doesn't strike me as trickery. They just want to highlight and market it, and the way Cubase is made, it's easy to miss those kinds of things.

Steve has it right. Better dox and tuts would help.
Then again, if their only ammunition for marketing is revealing hidden features, what incentive do they have for that? It's only a small QOL boost for existing users, and they only want newbies aboard their hype train.
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby Oedipus Driftpunch » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:56 am

There's nothing left to add. DAWs have come of age. Diminishing returns.
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby curteye » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:06 am

Oedipus Driftpunch wrote:There's nothing left to add. DAWs have come of age. Diminishing returns.


I too am starting to believe this.

And just when I think I have it figured...
the universe has a way of smacking me upside the head
and saying:..... 'on the other hand'........

But Oedipus Driftpunch does make an interesting point.
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby iBM » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:52 am

Oedipus Driftpunch wrote:There's nothing left to add. DAWs have come of age. Diminishing returns.

I actually dislike the new mix console so much that I have started to save up for a great hardware mixer. I am refusing to use that kind of money on hardware completely tied to software, like Nuage or Raven etc.
Then I will instead invest my money in longlifed hardware (they are still using 40 years old mixers, and older).

I will then use one of my excisting DAW's as a "Gloryfied Tape Recorder", with added Editing capabilities (I think I'll stop with Cubase 6.5 and Nuendo 5.5. PT and Studio One will also work).
I'm not going back to tape though ;) .

I'm starting to get real tired of the software updating, and changing of basic/core functions and/or GUI, in a way to fast paced changeover for anyone to learn something really good, before something new is "the only thing" you need.
Same symtoms as in the IT business, in which I am educated, but have now quited. The sad news is that is "following over" to the music production business.

So back to the OP.
There's not so much more we need to make music, so there's is more recycling of old features than really new things. Same *flower*, new wrapping for the most part.
And when they have something new, they absolutely have to change perfectely fine working features and function as well. Not build upon trusted workflow methods.
New colors and look just for the sake of changing things. Things that have nothing to do with enhancing trusted workflow and work methods, making work for the "iPad generation" of graphic designers that have never touched a real mixing desk.
I thought a Virtual mixer should represent a hardware mixer (not sliders and buttons to fit our fat fingers on an iPad or other touch screen device). Virtual Studio Technology my..........bum.

No, back to real hardware and real engineering skills. That is the future ;)
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby DG » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:42 am

I don't know what all the fuss is about. When people say "can you tab to transients like Slow Tools?" and you have to respond with a series of KC commands to make a macro, of course some people will be put off. All Steinberg is doing is getting rid of the perceived hassle and making it easier for new people to get into using the program.

TBH, I can do most stuff that i want to, but there are a few glaring (for me) omissions that slow me down and make the software more clunky than it needs to be. However, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't appreciate SB incorporating some of the existing macros into proper features.

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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby HowlingUlf » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:11 pm

damned if they do and damned if they don't ... :D
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby lukasbrooklyn » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:09 pm

HowlingUlf wrote:damned if they do and damned if they don't ... :D


damn right
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby Mauri » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:15 pm

lukasbrooklyn wrote:
HowlingUlf wrote:damned if they do and damned if they don't ... :D


damn right


damn...
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby Buchanan » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:19 am

Slow day eh?
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby Elektrobolt » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:31 am

Damn slow.
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby Scab Pickens » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:46 am

Well ... I'll be damned.
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby mozizo » Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:23 am

Scab Pickens wrote:Well ... I'll be damned.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYgONLrYmnI
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby Mauri » Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:17 am

'must be the damn echo in here...
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby Audiocave » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:26 pm

curteye wrote:
Oedipus Driftpunch wrote:There's nothing left to add. DAWs have come of age. Diminishing returns.


I too am starting to believe this.

And just when I think I have it figured...
the universe has a way of smacking me upside the head
and saying:..... 'on the other hand'........


True. Look at Tracktion 5's drag and drop freeze points that go inline in the plugin chain like any other plugin, and can be moved around at will, moving the freeze point to anywhere in the chain while automatically rendering the new result. Just when you think you've seen it all some really clever developer steps up and says.... "Uh, not really." :lol:

Thinking outside of the current box will always result in positive returns. That's one darn clever idea and implementation of freeze.
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby jaslan » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:06 pm

By this logic, just about every feature is "fake". Automation, VST Expression, Note Expression, etc. Just about everything could have been done in some way before the "feature" arrived.
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby Buchanan » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:40 pm

jaslan wrote:By this logic, just about every feature is "fake". Automation, VST Expression, Note Expression, etc. Just about everything could have been done in some way before the "feature" arrived.


Agreed. You could record on a computer before Cubase therefore Cubase has just got to be fake. QED.
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby mozizo » Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:16 pm

jaslan wrote:By this logic, just about every feature is "fake". Automation, VST Expression, Note Expression, etc. Just about everything could have been done in some way before the "feature" arrived.


Well there is a point here.. the long requested "feature" Bounce in place already can be done, it just takes lot of clicks and workflow killer now in cubase.. a new Bounce feature or even better "transform midi"(not sure about the exact term) alike as in Studio one 2.5 could be very welcome "fake" feature !
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Re: the fake 'new features' steinberg trickery

Postby Elektrobolt » Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:01 am

Isn't this really the crux?

I mean, customers complain about "workflow" all the time, but the steps are mostly already available in the toolbox. They just aren't streamlined the way people wants them this year. A vendor may implement them that way, but the following year the same or similar steps are now typically done some other way, and the complaints continue.

I have to say that Steinberg has always been the ones that has made my life better in terms of composing, equipment and VST instruments. The usually are on the ball with creating new exciting ways and technologies like ASIO and VST plugin in general, then Note Expression as an add-on to that. I use a lot of external MIDI equipment and so that aspect is important to me. The way Steinberg dealt with this early on has been left virtually intact and it has been surrounded with better and cooler ways of viewing and handling it.

What it comes down to is, like anything else in life, you will have to find the tool that has a staff that generally make things the way that appeals to you. If some other tool, say S1 (just an example), does have the things that just seems like the right thing for you, shouldn't you be using it?
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