Cubase and 4K monitors?

Find topics on computers, studios and music-related hardware.

Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:50 am

#2 4K on way!
After having my 4K for a month, we are now getting a Samsung 48" HU8500W for my wife.

I have been progressively moving mine further away from me as the artefacts from the font-scaling technology were noticeable. The distance is now 75cm face-to-screen, which is about right, though 80cm might be perfect for a 55".

48" would be about the perfect size for monitor/TV convergence, if you are not going to watch TV from a large distance away. To have the same size pixel pitch as on the 30", a 4K would have to be 45", so the 48"'s pixel pitch is only 6% larger.

Small 4K displays
Given that Cubase, along with many other desktop programs) relies on high UI information density, and will likely be that, notwithstanding touch-enabling (still lots of non-touch info to look at) for a while, anything much smaller than 48" is going to cramp the visuals.

Smaller size 4Ks will tend to favour visual editing, but there is still the issue with non-scaling text being too small. Having never run displays at anything other than their native resolution (mainly because non-scaling text looked terrible), I have never examined the effect of scaling everything up had on the look of pictures in dialog boxes and non-auto-scaling programs). Any comments?

Just for Windows users, there is the capacity to change the sizes of individual UI elements, like window captions bars, menu text et al, rather than just proportionally scaling everything up.

Glasses
As for glasses, the less range in focal lengths, the better. I find my dual range ones OK, so I can still look down at my desk to read, but the triple range ones require head movement, and not just eyes, to read the full height. Compared to scrolling pages on a smaller screen, it is not a big deal.

I originally got the triple range because I got fed up with having to take them off just so I could clearly see people who came to my desk to talk, but since I am in my home-office basically full time now, the duals are in use full time.

30Hz usage
While for me, 30Hz is only temporary until HDMI 2.0 video cards are out, I have not found 30Hz tiring, and I am using the 4K as the main monitor (at 55", could it be anything but that?) for 8 to 12 hours a day, and a TV for some hours more.

I have not used it with Cubase for any real work yet, but it is fantastic for everything else. It is nice to have enough room to have space for programs like MYOB to take up half the screen, and still have room to have online banking open for reconciliation.

Compact computing = BRIX
Given the satisfaction with 30Hz, and since we needed to get another video card for the 48", plus my wife's computer was basically a huge box filled with air and far more computing power than was required, we decided instead to replace it with a Gigabyte BRIX GV-BXi3H-4010, which has 4K@30Hz built in. Basically, a video card would have set us back AU$160, whereas the BRIX+4GB RAM was AU$425, so it was a no brainer.

It is so tiny (114x108x43mm/4.5x4.3x1.7"), mainly because it is limited in what can be modified, namely only RAM (up to 2x8GB) and mSATA and SATA III drives, much like a laptop! And it turns on and off so fast (no POST screens). Unfortunately, such miniaturisation is not plausible for my computing requirements.


I know it is another one of my long rants, but I hope it gives some help, and some considerations to think about, for those who might be considering taking on 4K.
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
User avatar
Patanjali
Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:37 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Sat Aug 02, 2014 8:11 am

The 48" is in place. Looks a good size for combined monitor and TV use. I would recommend it as the best balance of price, pixel size, range of viewing angles and deskspace.
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
User avatar
Patanjali
Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:37 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby SYNC » Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:28 am

Right on Pat 8-) ... still kicking the idea of if I need another monitor...one larger than my fairly new 3 24" wide screens that is.

When I tie in my home video surveilence sytem into my music room, I may want to do something different. But my innitial idea is to just tie the surveilance systems DVR into my home studio's 4-port KVM VGA switch, and give me an option as if it was just another music machine. That'll be great for when I keep hearing 'noises' when I have on my headphones :geek:
User avatar
SYNC
Member
 
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 11:18 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:31 am

I still have my two 23" FHD touchscreens, so I have something that I can use for such miscellaneous inputs.

If you are composing for video, even with a 4K, it may be wise to keep a smaller screen on which you can run Cubase's video window at full frames, therefore bypassing the need for the video card to handle high speed 4K when only part of the screen would actually need it.

For your DVR, you can run it into the smaller screen via your switcher, and so keep Cubase up front and centre even when the phantom noises encroach!

You may notice that many TVs have Picture-In-Picture (PIP). However, at least with the Samsungs and I suspect others, the TV tuner MUST be one of the two sources, and only at a maximum of FHD, so it is disabled if using a 4K source.
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
User avatar
Patanjali
Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:37 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby mehimu » Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:37 am

Thanks for this post. Helpful
mehimu
New Member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:38 am
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:29 am

For those who get a 4K display but have a card that only supplies 3840x2160@30Hz, there is something strange that can happen that gives some odd multi-colour tinges to text.

To ensure text is OK, make sure the refresh rate for the monitor is set to 30Hz in the computer, by:

1. Open the Screen Resolution dialog
_ by right-clicking an open area of the desktop and selecting the Screen resolution option.

2. Open the dialog for the monitor and video combo
_ by clicking the Advanced settings link.

3. Open the Monitor panel
_ by clicking the Monitor tab.

4. Set the correct rate
_ by selecting the 30 Hertz option from the Screen refresh rate list.


It defaults to 60Hz because the input is capable of it due to being HDMI2.0, but the card is actually not capable of sending it out, so the TV thinks it is getting 60Hz, but only getting 30Hz, so the oddities may be due to aliasing. However, changing it to 30Hz makes the text not look kaleidoscopic. Changing it to 60Hz definitely produces the effect.

The other benefit of setting it to 30Hz is that the Entertain option becomes available on the Picture Mode list in the Picture settings for the Samsung TV. I think that the Entertain mode is the lower-latency game mode, with some of the delaying picture processing effects disabled.

Looks like the TV-video-computer talk-fest produced a 'failure to communicate' (as per Cool Hand Luke).

If anyone has any questions about this, please ask. I had no idea why the colour effects suddenly disappeared one day and just as suddenly reappeared today when I tried out a new spatial arrangement in the Screen Resolution dialog. Now I have the reproducible process with which it all makes sense!
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
User avatar
Patanjali
Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:37 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Infrared » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:23 am

I have a 22" 1920x1080 which I purposely downsized to as I like the high ppi and small screen for coding up close.

However with Cubase projects getting more complex I'm considering a 4k monitor.
UP2414Q 24" 4k can be had quite reasonable.
Is this just entirely too small for Cubase 4k?
Can Cubase scale properly in Win 8?

This guy posted a comparison of 1920 vs 4k: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/psychlist1972/10500180314/
Image

Otherwise I am considering a U2913WM 29"
Image

Anyone have experience with this one?
I wonder how the vertical real estate is missed it's basically like 2 monitors.
Infrared
New Member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 5:56 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Fri Aug 08, 2014 4:56 am

Infrared wrote:I have a 22" 1920x1080 ... UP2414Q 24" 4k ... Is this just entirely too small for Cubase 4k?

Try almost doubling (1.83) the distance away from your 22", and see if you still think you can read it easily enough, and be able to accurately click the mouse.

Infrared wrote:Can Cubase scale properly in Win 8?

In what way? Cubase is a desktop program and does not scale at all (that is, a button will always have the same pixel dimensions), but just can show more info if there are more pixels. Text and lines in Cubase will be the clearest if you use the native resolution.

Infrared wrote:Otherwise I am considering a U2913WM 29" ... I wonder how the vertical real estate is missed it's basically like 2 monitors.

Screen display height will be just a tiny bit larger than your 22", and a 1/3 wider.

A 4K will be equivalent to three of them.
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
User avatar
Patanjali
Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:37 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Infrared » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:01 pm

Thanks for the response Patanjali.
I guess I should consider a 32+ 4k to really benefit in Cubase?
Doing guitars or outboard requires distance.
I guess ultimately a 2nd wireless touchscreen is the way.
Infrared
New Member
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 5:56 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Re: Cubase and 4K monitors?

Postby Patanjali » Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:56 pm

Infrared wrote:I guess ultimately a 2nd wireless touchscreen is the way.

Cubase iC Pro! Only way to get a proper cue mixer (vertical side-by-side sliders) on-screen.

They work well. You can use several devices at once, with different info on each, even up to four cue mixes.

Devices smaller than an iPad mini will give you the single function display, otherwise you get the multi-part display. See the pics on the above page. Note that this means 7" Android devices will give the single function display.
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
User avatar
Patanjali
Member
 
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:37 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 54 times

Previous

Return to Computer / Studio Hardware & Setup

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: fizzazz and 3 guests