Thunderbolt

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Re: Thunderbolt

Postby JCschild » Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:38 pm

I am a dealer for all of them. already got in trouble for mentioning the name elsewhere
normally I dont care but this time not doing it
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Re: Thunderbolt

Postby Patanjali » Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:10 pm

JCschild wrote:I am a dealer for all of them. already got in trouble for mentioning the name elsewhere
normally I dont care but this time not doing it

Fair enough!

But then just mentioning that an unspecified one of them has 'backaswards' thinking sort of ascribes it to ALL of them, because you have given us absolutely no criteria by which to evaluate ANY of them, and so all you have left us with is a vague implication to trust NONE of them.

By implication then, you appear to be saying that you know the 'secret' and that our 'salvation from ignorance' lies with pursuing your services. Do you have a Messiah complex or are you just trolling for work?
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Re: Thunderbolt

Postby Cut-a-Corner » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:54 am

Patanjali wrote:
JCschild wrote:I am a dealer for all of them. already got in trouble for mentioning the name elsewhere
normally I dont care but this time not doing it

Fair enough!

But then just mentioning that an unspecified one of them has 'backaswards' thinking sort of ascribes it to ALL of them, because you have given us absolutely no criteria by which to evaluate ANY of them, and so all you have left us with is a vague implication to trust NONE of them.

By implication then, you appear to be saying that you know the 'secret' and that our 'salvation from ignorance' lies with pursuing your services. Do you have a Messiah complex or are you just trolling for work?


I understand JCschild.
I wouln´t risk my job for that type of information, especially as a dealer.
Messiah complex? Why are you so agressive?
He said that very good Network knowledge is required.
And some manufacturer sites state that DHCP should not be used, wich is wrong in his experience.
Essentially that means: for lorger setups experienced knowledge with these difficult systems is required.
That´s okay. It is his job!
And i don´t see him trolling for work, especially since he said that anything has yet to touch MADI.

Personally, i am thankful for the information that the industry standart in Audio over IP has yet to be made.
Because these solutions are difficult if you don´t use an integrated system.
But exactly that is a downgrade to MADI.
And these systems don´t safe money compared to MADI.
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Re: Thunderbolt

Postby Patanjali » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:21 am

Cut-a-Corner wrote:Personally, i am thankful for the information that the industry standart in Audio over IP has yet to be made. Because these solutions are difficult if you don´t use an integrated system.

Sorry, I don't understand. As I understand it, both MADI and AoIP allow integration of equipment from multiple vendors.

Cut-a-Corner wrote:But exactly that is a downgrade to MADI.

I think it is a matter of 'horses for courses'.

From the 'outside', MADI appears geared for those with mass I/O requirements, and budgets to match!

When lower I/O count devices are available, AoIP would appear to be the better and cheaper solution for smaller initial setups, but scalable and flexible enough to expand to anything up to large multi-room studios, without obsoleting anything along the way, and using cheap network equipment and cables to do it.

Also, AoIP is routable, whereas MADI seems point-to-point, making the former fully remotely configurable when using managed switches.
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Re: Thunderbolt

Postby Cut-a-Corner » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:33 am

Patanjali wrote: Cut-a-Corner hat geschrieben:Personally, i am thankful for the information that the industry standart in Audio over IP has yet to be made. Because these solutions are difficult if you don´t use an integrated system.


Sorry, I don't understand. As I understand it, both MADI and AoIP allow integration of equipment from multiple vendors.

Just like JCschild said and my local dealer stated: these are not "fail safe" solutions in cross communication between different / non-integrated systems.
That why i repeat: the industry standart in Audio over IP has yet to be made.
Or DANTE has be pushed foward by companies like Yamaha or Focusrite.

But i am sceptical about both companies in terms of computer technology.
Rember mLAN? (DISASTER!)
And Focusrite isn´t especially well known for their "excellent software drivers". ;-)


I don´t see that Audio over IP is cheaper or better with smaller setups than MADI.
For example: take a RME MADI USB and a FERROFISH A16MkII ...
Thats 1.850€ for 16 channels AD/DA.
Expandable to 128 channels in 48khz, 64channels in 96khz and 32 Channels in 192khz.

That´s almost the same price as my RME Fireface UFX.
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Re: Thunderbolt

Postby Patanjali » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:43 am

Cut-a-Corner wrote:That why i repeat: the industry standart in Audio over IP has yet to be made.

Which is why I was glad to be able to get my RME Firefaces working together on my new system so I don't have to make any interface equipment decisions for the foreseeable future.

But I am watching AoIP as a possible front-runner if one of my Firefaces (in particular, the 800) dies.
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Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
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Re: Thunderbolt

Postby Cut-a-Corner » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:56 am

Patanjali wrote: But I am watching AoIP as a possible front-runner if one of my Firefaces (in particular, the 800) dies.

I don´t think that it will die in the near future.
I know two units wich are almost 10 years old and in daily use.

But i have to admit that Audio over IP is a really interesting topic.
Perhaps it will be the future of Audio.

Back to Thunderbolt? :-D
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Re: Thunderbolt

Postby Patanjali » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:17 am

Cut-a-Corner wrote:I know two units wich are almost 10 years old and in daily use.

My 800 is 7 years old.

Cut-a-Corner wrote:Perhaps it will be the future of Audio.

In terms of sheer flexibility, it looks hands down, the best candidate, especially as that flexibility is dependent upon widely-used and ever-cheaper network technology and widely available skills.

The real advantage of AoIP is when you want I/O in different locations. There are plenty of single I/O unit solutions that are cheaper than AoIP or MADI.

But to really make it flexible, there needs to be compact PoE 4in/4out interfaces with mic pres. Each performer can then have one for mics/DIs/cue, and one could be used in the control area for the recording engineer for talkback/DI/speakers/phones. For our purposes, two like that would be optimum.


By the way, your comparison using the Ferrofish did not include mic pres, which your UFX does.
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Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
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Re: Thunderbolt

Postby Cut-a-Corner » Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:23 am

Patanjali wrote:By the way, your comparison using the Ferrofish did not include mic pres, which your UFX does.

12 AD (including 4 mic pre) and 8 DA for RME UFX
compared to 16 AD/DA for RME MADI USB + Ferrofish.

edit:
forgot about the 4 DA for the two headphone jacks... 12/12 vs 16/16
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Re: Thunderbolt

Postby Patanjali » Tue Apr 08, 2014 7:46 am

Patanjali wrote:10GbE displays.

Actually around now, but expensive. Known as PCoIP by Teradici.

AMD make several host-end display cards for PCoIP.

There may well be a day soon where the computer can be totally in another room, next to the iSCSI NAS box, and as noisy as it needs to be to keep it running cool!
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Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
HW: Nmn U87 Ai : JA251x2 : YRG : Korg padKontrol+uKEY2 : RME FF400+800 : M-Patch-2 : Tannoy Reveal Active+TS-12.
SW: Win 8.1 Pro 64 : Cubase 7.5.20 64 : iC Pro : RX3Adv : Ozone5Adv : Goliath/SO PP/Pianos/Gypsy : Sup.Drum 2.0 : AT7.
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