How to get audio via USB cable?

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How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby rcgldr » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:14 am

I just bought a Yamaha MOXF8 which includes Cubase AI 7. I downloaded a midi file to test the software and it plays on the synthesizer, and I can hear audio if I plug in headphones into the synthesizer, but I can't get any audio from the synthesizer back to the computer via the USB cable. I tried using the audio out to a line in on my sound card, but the sound ends up distorted. I'm running Windows 7 Pro 64 bit.

I've searched the manuals, checked out some web sites but no luck. There's mention of an Yamaha USB audio driver, but I'm only suppose to install the Yamaha Steinberg USB driver (version 1.8.4).
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby SYNC » Sun Jun 08, 2014 3:51 pm

Maybe you should try installing that other driver anyway (?) Maybe you can only do either midi or audio via USB, not both at the same time? Dunno, I don't use USB for much aside from powering devices, or USB hard drives, too finicky. That's why I prefer standard midi connections for midi, you just plug it in and they always work! USB midi doesn't always get recognized or get's disconnected. For audio, analog line or digital connections are more reliable in my own experience. I tried using my midi guitar controller recently via USB after I had been using the regular midi out for a while...it worked once before, but I couldn't get it working again :roll:

As for distortion on the audio line outs into your sound card, you must have levels set too hot somewhere, check them at all stages...from out of your keyboard, in your sound card control panel and in Cubase etc.
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby rcgldr » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:05 pm

My computer doesn't have a midi device, neither does the sound card. I can get a USB to midi adapter, but that would still be USB on the computer end, which seems to be the problem. The "audio" driver can't be installed, it stops with an error "no ... device found", although the MOXF8 device shows up in device list when it's connected and powered on, and also shows up as a sound device with it's own "line". Generally if software generates audio data, it will go through the sound card, so for some reason the Yamaha Steinberg USB driver apparently isn't generating audio data and I don't see a volume slider on any audio control panel.

Using headphones plugged into the synthesizer while playing a midi file, I'm also sometimes hear clicks and pops, perhaps after 5 to 10 minutes of usage. This doesn't seem to be a CPU usage issue, as none of the 8 "CPUS" (4 hyper threading cores) are running over 20%.

I sent a problem report to Yamaha support this weekend, but have to wait until Monday to get a response. If that doesn't resolve it in a few days, I'll just return the synthesizer to the store for a refund, as I only have 14 days to do a return.
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby SYNC » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:21 pm

Well, had a quick look at that keyboard. Interesting, apparently it acts as a sound card as well, so that you can plug in other instruments which send that audio to your computer (?) It does look like a very nice keyboard. I have to think you're doing something wrong, rather than something is wrong with it.

It has a regular midi connection, but your sound card doesn't have a midi in. What sound card DO you have? I believe every 'audio device' has it's own control panel where you can adjust it's levels...even the cheapo one's built into motherboards (don't use that). Once you select a sound card in Cubase as your ASIO device, or a device that acts as a sound card (your keyboard in this case I think) you should then be open it's control panel from that dialog box, adjust levels, pan, etc, etc.
Since you said you get distortion from your keyboards audio outs, you're either using the wrong outs, or the sound card's levels are too high...the card you're plugging it into, and you must likely have that one selected as Cubase's ASIO device.

At any rate, apparently it's USB carries audio & midi and I'm assuming simultaneously by my quick read. In Cubase, what are you selecting as your ASIO device? The other sound card, or the Yamaha keyboard/interface? What do you see in your VST inputs/outputs? (or rather VST connections) Your sound card or your Yamaha keyboard/interface? I believe with USB there is a 'power on' order, try turning one on before the other & visa-versa...it's worked for me before.

Do you see any audio activity coming in Cubase's activity meter? Do you have any audio tracks in this project or template? If so, have you selected that track by clicking on it with your mouse? Are you monitoring correctly on that channel? Try your 'monitor' button, you may have a speaker icon. Also, have you assigned an I/O to that audio channel?

If that keyboard does indeed act as an audio interface as it looks like, you probably can't use both that AND your audio card simultaneously, as only one ASIO driver typically can be used at any one time. So you'll have to select one or the other, depending on which you're using at any given time. If you're trying to use your keyboard, then you should have that selected as your ASIO device within Cubase in order for it to pass any audio through it's USB.

Also, many devices that use certain I/O like serial & probably USB and others etc, you have to make the proper selection at the back of that device (in this case your keyboard) ...does it have a 'To Host', 'Midi', 'USB' 'Audio+Midi' etc or anything remotely similar to these? Read your manual, and make sure you have the proper selection made on your keyboard...I'm 'guessing' maybe 'To Host' if you're trying to get audio out of it's USB...???? I could be wrong, and that could be just for midi only for all I know. I know on my Yamaha DTXpress drum module, in order to use the serial port out for midi directly into my PC, I have to select 'To Host' and also install a special driver. Since then, I have been using standard midi into my sound cards midi in. Anyway, be sure you have the right selection...there's probably a small slide switch (similar looking to the forward/reverse switch on a standard celing fan).

Anyway, I hope this at least sparked some idea's for you, and made you realize you overlooked something.
Last edited by SYNC on Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby rcgldr » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:37 pm

SYNC wrote:In Cubase, what are you selecting as your ASIO device?
"Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO", so it's the proper device. If I start Cubase with the MOXF8 turned off, then turn the MOXF8 on after starting Cubase, I'll get a dialog box asking me which ASIO device I want to use, and I select "Yamaha Steinberg USB ASIO" / "MOXF6 / MOXF8".

SYNC wrote:What do you see in your VST inputs/outputs?
All of them are MOXF8.

SYNC wrote:Do you see any audio activity coming in Cubase's activity meter?
Yes, when playing midi files it shows activity. If I connect headphones to the MOXF8, I hear the music, and the volume control slider on Cubase functions. The only issue here is after 5 to 10 minutes of play I start getting crackles, clicks, pops, ... from the sound heard on the head phones.

SYNC wrote:Also, many devices that use certain I/O like serial & probably USB and others etc, you have to make the proper selection at the back of that device ...
I'm using an A (MOXF8) to B (computer) USB cable. The only A USB port on the MOXF8 is "To Host", so there's no switch to change. I checked the MOXF8 parameters, and they are set up to output audio on the USB cable according to the owner's manual and the reference manual.
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby SYNC » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:36 am

SYNC wrote:Do you see any audio activity coming in Cubase's activity meter?


Yes, when playing midi files it shows activity.


Just to be clear, I'm sure you know the difference between audio activity & midi activity in Cubase. Midi activity will be in the Transport bar meter. You should see audio in your mixer view.

To be able to hear audio in Cubase... in the Arrange Windows track lanes ....do you have corresponding audio channels? Are they set correctly? You should see at the left side of the Arrange Window when a track/lane is highlighted, a selection of the intending I/O from an audio device. Are they enabled & are you monitoring them correctly?

If I connect headphones to the MOXF8, I hear the music, and the volume control slider on Cubase functions. The only issue here is after 5 to 10 minutes of play I start getting crackles, clicks, pops, ... from the sound heard on the head phones.


Do you get these crackles & pops only when the USB is used, or do you get it when nothings plugged into your keyboard except your headphones? In other words, does it only happen when interfaced with Cubase? If it happens with your keyboard only with headphones and nothing else, I'd worry about the keyboard.
Buffers/latency settings? Samples rates matching up between your equipment & Cubase?
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby rcgldr » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:35 am

SYNC wrote:Do you see any audio activity coming in Cubase's activity meter?

Yes, when playing midi files it shows activity.

SYNC wrote:You should see audio in your mixer view.

It was audio, with headphones plugged into the MOXF8, I could adjust the volume slider in Cubase and hear the volume changing.

If I connect headphones to the MOXF8, I hear the music, and the volume control slider on Cubase functions. The only issue here is after 5 to 10 minutes of play I start getting crackles, clicks, pops, ... from the sound heard on the head phones.


SYNC wrote:Do you get these crackles & pops only when the USB is used
It only happened twice while playing midi files with Cubase and listening to headphones connected to the MOXF8, but I wasn't able to test much since the goal was to have the MOXF8 send audio data via USB back to the computer and have the computer play the audio.

I got email from Yamaha support, and confirmed all my settings are correct, but the audio via USB isn't working, and there's an impedance problem (clipping / distorted sound) trying to connect the MOXF8 audio out or headphone out to the line input of the sound card. As for the audio via USB, I think I read that the MOXF8 sends 24 bit (or 23 bit if 1 of the bits is used for another function) samples, and perhaps my sound card, a Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty, can't handle the 24 bit format. I can't upgrade / replace the sound card because I multi-boot between Win XP and Win 7, and Creative no longer makes Win XP drivers for their current sound cards. (I use XP more than I use Win 7).

After spending probably 8 or more hours on trying to resolve this issue, I gave up and returned the MOXF8 back to the store for a refund. I might try again in a few years when I get a new computer.
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby SYNC » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:45 pm

Ah well, you gave it a good try. Frustrating I'm sure.

Actually you 'can' upgrade your sound card to a much better one for use with Win XP...one that does 24 bit, and for a really good price if you buy used and know what you're looking for. Originally I bought an Aardvark Q10 'in the day' for nearly $800, they have just about every feature & connectivity options one needs...Aardvark is out of business now, and I bought extra Q10's & Aark 24 cards for about $100 or less each on ebay, I have 5 in total. Hey, another mans trash (for those that have gone 64 bit) is another mans treasure. That's one of the best deals going on used audio cards (also stopped drivers at Win XP), but you can find deals on other brands in the used market too.

I too still use, and am staying with Win XP for all my music machines, though I use Win Vista & Win 7 on my laptops for general use). I'm running multiple XP machines as my resource limitation solution in lieu of 64 bit, and I don't have any plans to upgrade ... not my OS, not my machines, and definitely not my audio cards. I can run everything I'll ever need to do with my set up.
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby rcgldr » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:37 pm

The sound card on my system is a SB X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Champion Series

http://us.store.creative.com/Creative-Sound-Blaster-XFi-Titanium-Fatal1ty/M/B001BDPLJA.htm

I have it in audio creation mode, and it does support 24 bit, as I have the record option set to record .wav files at 44.1khz, 24 bits. I can also choose 48khz or 96khz rates. The sound card's software app called Creative Console Launcher includes an ASIO tab, so the card does support at least some ASIO features.

The issue was that Cubase AI 7 did not include the sound card it it's list of ASIO devices (it only showed the MOXF8), so I was unable to select the sound card as an audio output device. I could not determine how to get a list of sound cards that should work in ASIO mode with Cubase AI 7 from the Steinberg web site.

Regarding Win XP versus Win 7, the Yamaha Steinberg USB driver documentation indicates that it's Win 7 only.
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby SYNC » Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:58 am

I don't know about Cubase AI 7, but it should be that ALL sound cards/audio interfaces with ASIO capability ought to be recognized by ANY version of Cubase. If Cubase could see one ASIO device, it should see any other. Or is that only for ASIO 2(?) Even my fairly old Aardvark cards are ASIO 2 compatible.
Though I tested a USB audio interface once and it wasn't recognized 'every time'....neither was a USB midi interface. Once it actually get's connected, I had no trouble with the DAW making use of it. You'd think USB with all it's capability wouldn't be so finicky & unreliable.

About staying with Win XP... that's the thing, you must be sure anything you get ... DAW software's, VSTi's, all drivers & hardware, is compatible with Win XP. Was just looking at a new Digital Mixer on line and was very surprised it works with Win XP as well as Win 7. If your DAW partition uses Win XP, you should research similar keyboard controllers that 'are' actually XP compatible.
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby rcgldr » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:11 am

I was using Window 7 Pro 64 bit when I was trying to get Cubase AI 7 to work. I could click on devices and get to a menu showing a tab for audio input, and the two device (left and right channel) select boxes were set to the MOXF8. Then I clicked on the tab for audio output, and in the two device selection boxes (left and right channel), the only choices were "not connected" or MOXF8.

The sound card did show up as an option for some of the MIDI inputs or outputs, but the audio selections were restricted to the MOXF8 or "not connected".

I couldn't find any documentation or manuals for Cubase AI 7 that indicate what devices are supported for audio input or output.
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Re: How to get audio via USB cable?

Postby rcgldr » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:20 am

I got a response from Yamaha support and the issue is that Cubase can only work with one ASIO device, but that doesn't explain why Cubase can't take the audio received from the MOXF8 and output on the host computer using Windows direct sound (directx). What's the point of the MOXF8 being able to send audio data back to the host, if the host software can't output that sound?
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