USB midi to external gear

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USB midi to external gear

Postby Strophoid » Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:54 am

A friend of mine bought a yamaha p105 stage piano recently. I warned her that it has no midi in/out so she couldn't connect external synths etc to it on stage. It does have MIDI over USB though. I was wondering if there was a simple (doesn't involve bringing a pc/laptop with midi interface) and cheap way of getting that USB midi to work with external gear. I know there are plenty of midi to usb cables but that's the other way around ;).
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

edit: to answer my own question:
http://www.thomann.de/gb/kenton_midi_usb_host.htm

that's quite expensive though :(
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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby SYNC » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:44 pm

I don't have an answer, but I know my Roland rack mount midi sound module has a USB connection to it....doesn't it mean that a keyboard with USB can connect to it? Or are these only designed to connect to a computer?

Personally, anything I've ever dealt with with USB is screwy ...exept say and external HDD
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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby Strophoid » Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:58 pm

I doubt it, and even if that's the case that wouldn't really help her because the synth she would be using doesn't have a USB port.
I personally also prefer using regular midi cables, I've got 11 USB ports in use without using any midi over USB (Except the MIDEX of course) and I feel that's enough ;)
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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby Patanjali » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:54 am

Strophoid wrote:A friend of mine bought a yamaha p105 stage piano recently. I warned her that it has no midi in/out so she couldn't connect external synths etc to it on stage. It does have MIDI over USB though. I was wondering if there was a simple (doesn't involve bringing a pc/laptop with midi interface) and cheap way of getting that USB midi to work with external gear.

You WILL need a host that can take MIDI over USB and an interface that provides MIDI out if needed.


Strophoid wrote:I know there are plenty of midi to usb cables
...
http://www.thomann.de/gb/kenton_midi_usb_host.htm

which the latter also is.
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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby SYNC » Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:27 pm

Strophoid, I thought you said your friend's keyboard has USB in your 1st post? Then you say it does not? Did I misread it :?

I bought one of those cheap USB to standard midi thingy's about a year ago +...I actually have never tried it.

Image

I think it's designed to go from a regular midi out, into a computers USB...if it works the other way around at all (?), it would obviously have to go into a midi router 1st...

BTW, I use Motu MTP AV's.. I have both serial & USB versions..but I connecte even the USB versions from it's regular midi ports to my sound cards regular midi I/O ports, which works fine & very reliably....unlike USB, where I get tired of issues not being recognized, losing connection, can't seeing connection :roll:
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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby Patanjali » Sat Jul 05, 2014 6:19 pm

SYNC wrote:...if it works the other way around at all (?)

A MIDI receiver is opto-isolated, which means that such a device CANNOT be used in reverse. MIDI is NOT a bus protocol like USB.
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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby Jarno » Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:36 pm

Patanjali wrote:
SYNC wrote:...if it works the other way around at all (?)

A MIDI receiver is opto-isolated, which means that such a device CANNOT be used in reverse. MIDI is NOT a bus protocol like USB.

Opto-isolation is irrelevant. This thingy SYNC owns (probably) has both MIDI IN and OUT, which makes it two-directional. But the problem is, it's USB must be connected to USB HOST (a computer) while Strophoid's problem is that USB must be connected to USB DEVICE (a keyboard)... which is exactly what the device Strophoid found (Kenton thingy) does.
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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby SYNC » Sat Jul 05, 2014 9:03 pm

Jarno wrote:
Patanjali wrote:
SYNC wrote:...if it works the other way around at all (?)

A MIDI receiver is opto-isolated, which means that such a device CANNOT be used in reverse. MIDI is NOT a bus protocol like USB.

Opto-isolation is irrelevant. This thingy SYNC owns (probably) has both MIDI IN and OUT, which makes it two-directional. But the problem is, it's USB must be connected to USB HOST (a computer) while Strophoid's problem is that USB must be connected to USB DEVICE (a keyboard)... which is exactly what the device Strophoid found (Kenton thingy) does.


I originally bought that cheapo USB/Midi thingy to experiment & connect to my laptop to run VSTi's from. I ended up building a 2nd desktop for that task, that's why I haven't used it. And yes, it's got 5-Pin midi DIN I/O.

I didn't think that Kenton was THAT expensive, if that's the solution needed. It's like $130 on ebay...at least here in the US. I don't know why Strop's friend bought that particular keyboard ...if midi out to other gear is needed in a 'LIVE' setting.

Personally, I would never buy a keyboard that 'only' had USB for midi, for any purpose. I have 4 Motu MTP AV 8X8's (got'em CHEAP)...enough to do anything I'll ever need midi wise.
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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby Patanjali » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:44 am

My bad :oops: re the Kenton thing (I misread something somewhere, which I couldn't find again), but from this description, it would appear to be EXACTLY the thing required!
Patanjali
Half of the folk music duo, DevaKnighT. Music available from CD Baby (MP3/FLAC) and the usual culprits. All recorded and processed on Cubase 7.x at 192k.
Comp: i7-4930K : Asus P9X79-E WS : 32GB : GV-N750OC-2GI : SSDx4+2 : UAD-2Q : Dell S2340Tx2 & Samsung 55" 4K.
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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby Strophoid » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:12 pm

Cheers guys, I guess the Kenton device is our best option.

@SYNC, I can see the confusion now, piano = master controller, synth is what she's trying to control over MIDI ;)
I agree I would've gone with a piano with native MIDI out, but the budget was quite tight and this Yamaha ticked all the other boxes. She was picky over the keybed and sounds so the options were very limited, and to be honest this is by no means a bad choice. She played it live today and she was clearly very happy with it :)
Software: Steinberg Cubase Artist 6.5.5 64-bit.
Hardware: HP elitebook 8530b with W7 Home 64-bit
Mackie Onyx 1620i - Steinberg Midex 8 - Steinberg CC121.
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Instruments: Yamaha DTX750k - Yamaha MO-6 - Waldorf Blofeld - Korg Wavedrum WDX.
3rd party plugins: Native Instruments Prism - Rob Papen Distort - Rob Papen Delay

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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby SYNC » Sun Jul 06, 2014 4:01 pm

Well, if she's happy that's all that matters then :) The price of the keyboard/controller must have been so fantastic, that having to now buy the Kenton midi device more than makes up for it :?:
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Re: USB midi to external gear

Postby Strophoid » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:28 pm

I guess so, I don't think she'd have bought a different piano if her budget included the additional €100,-.
Software: Steinberg Cubase Artist 6.5.5 64-bit.
Hardware: HP elitebook 8530b with W7 Home 64-bit
Mackie Onyx 1620i - Steinberg Midex 8 - Steinberg CC121.
Analog: Alesis M1 - Behringer Powerplay Pro-XL - Studio Projects C3 - AKG K612Pro
Instruments: Yamaha DTX750k - Yamaha MO-6 - Waldorf Blofeld - Korg Wavedrum WDX.
3rd party plugins: Native Instruments Prism - Rob Papen Distort - Rob Papen Delay

My humble contributions to what could be considered music.
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