Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

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Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby Ed Doll » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:32 pm

Hi all,

The ability to control Cubase 7 and Cubase Artist 7 intuitively by the command of gestures together with supported hardware and Cubase iC Air is Steinberg’s first achievement in this field of research.

If you not yet have downloaded the component it is freely available for download at the Steinberg website.

Now it’s your turn:
Please give us your feedback and ideas about Cubase iC Air!

Thank you
Your Steinberg team
Ed Doll, Support Manager
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby TheNavigator » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:12 pm

Here a few ideas:

* Use multiple fingers to control multiple faders
* Air piano
* Air drums (play with chopsticks)
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby Armand Rochette » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:37 pm

Hi there,


First of all thank you for this first feedback!

The good news is that our R&D department have already tried some of these ideas.

Controlling multiple things accurately (e.g. faders or keys) with each of your fingers pending in the air turns out to be almost impossible (trained pianist speaking here :D).
It's not really due to accuracy of the controller itself but more of a physiognomical problem which lays with the tensions that remain between your fingers' tendons, even after years of practice.
Try to move each of your finger independently in the air and you'll quickly realise that, no matter how trained your fingers are, the other ones tend to move as well. As a matter of fact, it's then very difficult to find a good threshold between the triggering detection's accuracy and the notes that your fingers would trigger mistakenly.
Our results show that it could be manageable for very easy pieces but it's still not accurate enough to be something very convincing for our users. We might have other ideas to improve it but so far it seems to be a bit of a myth.

On the other hand, an air drum is something we've been trying as well and our experiments are really convincing (trained drummer speaking here! :D)!
It can be amazingly intuitive and responsive after just a few minutes of practice.


Cheers,
Software Engineer
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby G-string » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:12 pm

first impressions I like it , the leap is pretty responsive and for the basic start and stop you don't have to move your hands much with the gestures .
Thumbs up here , it's a pretty smart idea .

nice one Steinberg ;-)
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby sming » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:01 pm

G-string wrote:first impressions I like it , the leap is pretty responsive and for the basic start and stop you don't have to move your hands much with the gestures .
Thumbs up here , it's a pretty smart idea .

nice one Steinberg ;-)


Thank you for the kind feedback. Appreciate that!
Note that tutorials are on their way, so hopefully that could help you picking up the additional ones more comfortably.
cheers,
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby JMCecil » Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:14 am

Using with Leap. It was ok-ish. Still very strainful to use. I can't quite get a good quick identification of my hand(s). It simply takes to long to identify and start tracking. It is slightly better than using Geco to do the same things though. I couldn't get the previous/next track swipping to work other than very randomly it would suddenly do 1 track move, but then ignore the next swipe(s).

Suggestions.

Tie a gesture to AI attach and release so you can ... |move the cursor to a control | gesture AI lock | modify value | release AI mode lock | ... default gestures now available.

Add gestures to open default editor of events under cursor.

Of course that means adding cursor control.

Other than that, keep at it .. should be fun.
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby sming » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:30 am

Hi there,


@ JMCecil: Thanks for your feedback and glad that you gave it a try.
Some tips for ya before the tutorials arrive: try to relax your hand when performing the gestures.
As for the swipe gestures, the illustrations in the Quick Start Guide are potentially misleading. The functions can be done comfortably when you swipe in this manner:
Try to orientate your palm such that it is more or less parallel to the Leap/table surface, while your fingers are comfortably wide-spread (Big 5) during the swipe motion. And, please don't swipe too quickly, moderate speed would do the best.
The catch is that, the Leap device needs to recognize your hand and fingers for optimal detection.
All in all, appreciate your kind inputs!
cheers,
SMing

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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby jcologne » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:30 am

Creating your own gestures and assigning them to certain shortkeys and macros would be great.
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby JMCecil » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:57 pm

sming wrote:@ JMCecil: Thanks for your feedback and glad that you gave it a try.
Some tips for ya before the tutorials arrive: try to relax your hand when performing the gestures.
As for the swipe gestures, the illustrations in the Quick Start Guide are potentially misleading. The functions can be done comfortably when you swipe in this manner:
Try to orientate your palm such that it is more or less parallel to the Leap/table surface, while your fingers are comfortably wide-spread (Big 5) during the swipe motion. And, please don't swipe too quickly, moderate speed would do the best.
The catch is that, the Leap device needs to recognize your hand and fingers for optimal detection.
All in all, appreciate your kind inputs!

Just to clarify, I've had my Leap Motion device through the tail end of the device beta program. I've written my own control apps (I wrote a plugin for Viso to flip through designs, zoom/scroll for example). So, I'm fairly proficient with it. Remember, I have already configured a large portion of the Air capability into Geco and have been messing with various combinations of gestures for controlling Cubase via GR that go beyond what Air is doing. And I've been doing that for about 6 months.

So, what I'm saying is, as a person who is proficient with the Leap Motion device. I could use the start/stop and scroll functions easily. The zoom function was very figity to get it to recognize zoom mode because it sucks at recognizing my 2nd hand isn't just fingers on my other hand. I can't get track select swiping to work. And, if I set the sensitivity to a point where I even have a shot at getting it to quickly recognize my hand that I'm trying to gesture, then it erratically goes into start/stop and the other mode (sorry there is a shuttle mode or something, I'm not at my computer and can't remember the exact mode it pops into).

I didn't provide the feedback as a complaint. I think it's great you guys are going down this path.
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby sming » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:21 pm

JMCecil wrote:Just to clarify, I've had my Leap Motion device through the tail end of the device beta program. I've written my own control apps (I wrote a plugin for Viso to flip through designs, zoom/scroll for example). So, I'm fairly proficient with it. Remember, I have already configured a large portion of the Air capability into Geco and have been messing with various combinations of gestures for controlling Cubase via GR that go beyond what Air is doing. And I've been doing that for about 6 months.


How nice, good to know that :-)

JMCecil wrote:So, what I'm saying is, as a person who is proficient with the Leap Motion device. I could use the start/stop and scroll functions easily. The zoom function was very figity to get it to recognize zoom mode because it sucks at recognizing my 2nd hand isn't just fingers on my other hand. I can't get track select swiping to work. And, if I set the sensitivity to a point where I even have a shot at getting it to quickly recognize my hand that I'm trying to gesture, then it erratically goes into start/stop and the other mode (sorry there is a shuttle mode or something, I'm not at my computer and can't remember the exact mode it pops into).

Seems like we have quite a different experience with the swipe moves. I just thought we could share some of the tips over, no offence :-) Anyway, let's hope the tutorials appear later could solve some of the confusions here.

JMCecil wrote:I didn't provide the feedback as a complaint. I think it's great you guys are going down this path.

Don't worry, we never see your feedback as complaints, but constructive responses that we appreciate a lot.
In any case, we apologize if we sound like defending occasionally. We hope you understand that we are trying our best to assist you here. Again, thanks for your kind feedback and support. :)
cheers,
SMing

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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby JMCecil » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:26 pm

sming wrote: We hope you understand that we are trying our best to assist you here. Again, thanks for your kind feedback and support. :)

Absolutely ... My response may have come across defensively as well ... that's the internet for you. I was just expanding to make sure that you understood that the problem isn't based on a beginner with the hand motions. You are going to run into calibration issues that have more to do with the performance than the actual hand motions. LM devices are extremely sensitive to the lighting in a room. Tiny changes can have a huge impact on their performance. At least that's been my experience.

So, I find them interesting more than useful. But, I think if we/you keep plowing the road, they will eventually be useful.
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby sming » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:09 pm

@JMCecil: You got the point, 120% agree! Thanks and keep up.

@John: This additional piece of Info may help narrow down the scope, will forward it internally. Thanks!
cheers,
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby cscompo » Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:18 am

Hi,

Can I use cubase ic air for control on cc midi like cc1 cc11 and cc7... for drawing midi curve ?

thanks for answer

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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby Armand Rochette » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:50 pm

Hi,


Yes you can use the Ai knob mode to easily learn any parameter available in Cubase. Just like the MIDI learn feature.
We've uploaded a video tutorial here: http://youtu.be/Ov42lKl_5b0?t=2m27s

Cheers,
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby sming » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:03 am

cscompo wrote:Hi,

Can I use cubase ic air for control on cc midi like cc1 cc11 and cc7... for drawing midi curve ?

thanks for answer

cscompo


Hi there,

To make things clearer, direct MIDI CC input is NOT supported by Cubase iC Air v1.0.

The mentioned virtual AI knob of Cubase iC Air enables you to attach it to most of the automatable parameters within Cubase only, these include most of the parameters from channel EQs, VST plugins, channel fader, pan, send level, channel strips, etc.
General Tip: As long as a parameter within Cubase is attachable to the virtual AI knob, you can control them via hand movement.
Thanks.
cheers,
SMing

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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby sebastick70 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:15 am

Hello! Congratulations on your initiative! but it is very basic. I would choose tools, open and close the edit window, slide the faders from side to side, open and close folders of tracks, and make my own gestures.
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby Rejean Lachance » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:25 pm

Hi, we should have a Record On and Record Off like the play/stop etc gestures. This way if you are playing as example a guitar, you won't have to engage the AI mode. But it should be a really concrete signs. Voilà!
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby fenderchris » Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:30 pm

Does it work for left-handed gestures?

I am left-handed and have trouble making the gestures that involve folding the middle fingers down with my right hand.
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby Keezix » Thu Mar 20, 2014 2:14 am

I've enjoyed using the Leap Motion controller with the Cubase iC Air for a couple of months now on a couple of computer systems. It is also a good way to impress clients. Here is my feedback:

I would like to be able to enable/disable certain of it's functions. As it stands, rewind and fast forward gestures work very reliably just about every time and is very intuative :D . The "stop" command has to be right in the sweet spot to work, which takes a little practice, but also gets a thumbs up. The "Start" command works same way, but takes more effort to get the hand gesture together, so I tend to not use that one so much. The gestures for "change track" commands works too damn easy and that is a problem :? . This is because I frequently set it off accidentally. Sometimes I'm using that gesture for reasons not related to remote controlling Cubase, such as if I'm wiping my face or something and the track changes midstream. Not Good :evil: . Often, after performing a "stop" gesture, merely moving my hand out of the way all to often causes the track assignment to change. This is actually rather dangerous. All of these functions are always live so long as the iC Air is turned on. So, it would be very helpful if a future version allowed for independent enable/disable of each of these functions (perhaps in the "Preferences" menu?). That way, I could for example disable the track change function, which would eliminate the aforementioned problem.

Concerning the AI knob: What would make this far more useful would be a "preset" dialog (like in many other places in Cubase) to quickly call up a saved configuration. Along with this, adding key commands to quickly turn the knob on/off and also maybe to call up different configurations would prompt me to want to use this cool feature much more than I currently do. Also, I think that the lowest setting for "sensitivity" is still not low enough for certain fine tuning tasks.

Thanks for listening!
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby islandmusicpro » Sat May 31, 2014 5:07 pm

A shameless bump from my own thread, just because I REALLY care about this technology:

Hi all,

if you haven't done so yet, head over to LeapMotion and download the 2.0 Skeletal Tracking beta version of their new software. And the demos, especially CubeWave and BlockPit.
And prepare to be blown away. This is it!
Nothing should stand in the way now of Steinberg realizing their vision for iC Air!

Here's what I'd like to see from the SB developers:
A fully and natively integrated gesture control option for navigation in Cubase!
To give you my specific usage scenario:
Approach the controller from above. Nothing happens until a certain hover height, but lowering further I can do two things:
1. Make a fist and emulate the mouse wheel click (=hand tool), i.e. pan up/down/left/right.
2. Make a flat outstretched hand. and in staying in the center nothing happens. Then push towards the screen to smoothly zoom in and stop zooming when I stop moving. zoom back out when moving backwards. Move hand to right/left and smoothly start scrolling right/left, stopping when I stop. The further I am from the middle/neutral position, the faster it scrolls/zooms. I can make a fist at any point to grab and drag, and I can zoom and scroll at the same time.
All of this needs to be smooth and seamless. Of course...

Me personally, I don't need transport controls, since I use a control surface for that and locating/marking and jumping around in my arrangement.

Seriously, I think we all are ready. This is the time for a killer app and a truly groundbreaking new way to interact with the GUI. What's the 99 US Dollars for the device compared to the rest of people's studio setups?
By the way, that Intel camera was just rendered obsolete, I'm afraid....

Anxious to hear your thoughts,

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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby Mike07 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:08 am

I use GECO with Leap Motion to control some parameters in Kontakt as a VST instrument in Cubase 7.5 and today I installed iC Air but I can't use GECO anymore even I put iC Air to OFF. I must remove iC Air in the Device setup :(
In a future update it would be nice if we can disconnect iC Air from the control panel.
Thanks and congratulations.
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby bolty » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:53 am

i am loving the leap facility
i can't help but wonder if you ought consider using the kinect as well
hope thats not a dirty word
for instance if a am mixing i want to be able to stand anywhere in the room and control volumes
with big gestures so i can get fine detail
and when at the back of the room thats when i need the transport options
if i am sat at the keyboard its easier to use that
I have been wondering if anyone has utilised 2 units to increase accuracy and overcome occlusion
this idea has been tried with the kinect and worked very well
my primary focus is music and am hoping to create air drums, guitars, bass, and keyboards etc
even if these gestures opened the drum sampler and loaded my samples would be a start
and my bass synths, guit synths etc.
but i am certain we can play them too
writing with a mouse in grid edit really
my coding skills are poor but my ideas are powerful so i am looking for help
having checked air drums and bongos etc i was quite impressed
but quickly realised they miss the point
when i play air drums i do not try to hit a target
(an invisible surface in a fixed location)
the strike or the hit is my arm movement changing from forwards to backward
that is the moment of impact
surely that is 100 times easier to identify by the optics and algorithmically
let alone giving it a training mode so it learns my style
drop in a tune and play along to it
and generate an algorithm between the tune and my performance
i am talented and my time is valuable ( to me anyway)
the computer should be watching everything i do
and recording it
ANYONE INTERESTED ?
if you are i have plenty more ideas like these
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby thedarris » Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:07 am

Firstly, this is looks like a great tool to help my workflow. One feature that I think a lot of Cubase composers would love is the ability to automate tempo on the fly. Basically a way to conduct our pieces real time during playback. This would allow us to create a more realistic tempo phrasing for our pieces. Other programs such as Sibelius have a tap feature that can do this but that is very wonky and counter intuitive to the idea of "conducting." Anyway, I would love to see this feature in a future update. If you have any question about my request please PM me. Thanks for your consideration.

Regards,

Chris
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby Keezix » Mon Jul 28, 2014 6:26 pm

Cubase has an excellent tap feature for tempo mapping as well. Frankly, I don't see how conducting in the air can ever be precise enough. You can hardly expect that conducting in a traditional manner towards a computer is going to get similar results to conducting humans. It just can't work until AI technology vastly advances!
Last edited by Keezix on Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cubase iC Air - Give us your feedback and ideas

Postby Keezix » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:09 pm

Thedarris:

Having given this some further thought, I realize that you are actually on to something! Inside the Cubase tempo editing window is a virtual fader for controlling tempo. Using a mouse to control it sucks, so I never do that. However, if this tempo control fader could be assigned to the IC Air, it could be controlled in the same manner as can already be done with volume faders. So it should be certainly be possible to do intuitive in-the-air conducting, albeit with a much lower energy requirement (no need to wave the arms around). That would indeed be cool!!
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