Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

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Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Earl » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:34 am

Greetings,

I'm trying the Halion 4 trial and noticed that I am unable to edit a Halion Sonic Program. None of the zone, mapping or sample parameters are available. I also don't see any layers in the program tree for the Halion Sonic program. How would I route a kick drum of a Halion sonic kit to a program bus? Or use a separate envelope on any of the individual elements of the kit?
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Marcus » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:11 am

Hi there,

some HALion Sonic Programs (GM Set, etc) are not editable for users.
This content is in a locked container.

So this correct.


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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Cantankerous » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:11 pm

This is extremely limiting and I noticed this exact behaviour as well, but knew it was intentional. Is this something that will ever be changed Marcus, or are we stuck with this behaviour like this? With things being the way they currently are, we basically lost most of the value of the included content as they are barely tweakable and are more like set presets than anything else. It is a good thing I use my own sounds 99% of the time in Halion 4 so I can have the control I am after. I am hopeful new updates will being even more functionality and tweaking to our sounds through Halion 4.

Speaking of updates, when is the next one? Things have been kinda dry. Besides 4.5 being released like 15 months ago, little to no new functionality has been added to Halion 4 at all.
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Earl » Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:35 pm

Marcus wrote:Hi there,

some HALion Sonic Programs (GM Set, etc) are not editable for users.
This content is in a locked container.

So this correct.


Cheers,

Marcus


Hello Marcus,

Will Halion Sonic be able to edit the individual zones for this locked content that you mention?
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Marcus » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:37 pm

Hi there,

no, these locked containers (layers) are not editable in the HALion Sonic as well.

Cheers,

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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Earl » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:17 pm

Marcus wrote:Hi there,

no, these locked containers (layers) are not editable in the HALion Sonic as well.

Cheers,

Marcus


Ok, thank you for your replys.

Cheers,

Earl
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Earl » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:36 am

Cantankerous wrote:This is extremely limiting and I noticed this exact behaviour as well, but knew it was intentional. Is this something that will ever be changed Marcus, or are we stuck with this behaviour like this? With things being the way they currently are, we basically lost most of the value of the included content as they are barely tweakable and are more like set presets than anything else. It is a good thing I use my own sounds 99% of the time in Halion 4 so I can have the control I am after. I am hopeful new updates will being even more functionality and tweaking to our sounds through Halion 4.

Speaking of updates, when is the next one? Things have been kinda dry. Besides 4.5 being released like 15 months ago, little to no new functionality has been added to Halion 4 at all.


I agree that locking the content from editing is limiting especially when it applies to Drum Menu programs which have different drum elements mapped across the keyboard. Even though the sounds of the locked content maybe good, I always need a separate envelope and filter for each element used to help it fit in the mix.
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Marcus » Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:33 am

Hi guys,

I will talk about this in our next meeting and come back with further information.

Cheers,

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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Earl » Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:48 pm

Marcus wrote:Hi guys,

I will talk about this in our next meeting and come back with further information.

Cheers,

Marcus


I appreciate that Marcus!

Cheers,

Earl
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Guest » Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:53 pm

Marcus wrote:I will talk about this in our next meeting and come back with further information.

That would be much appreciated. Maybe also take the closed nature of the Flexphrases along with it in the meeting.
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby JMCecil » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:11 pm

niles wrote:
Marcus wrote:I will talk about this in our next meeting and come back with further information.

That would be much appreciated. Maybe also take the closed nature of the Flexphrases along with it in the meeting.

$$ yes please ...
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Marcus » Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:08 pm

Hi there,

unfortunately we can open the closed Layers for editing due to copyrights.
The same reason is for the Flexphraser, due to copyrights we are not allowed to "open" the Flexphraser.

I am sorry, that I do not have better news for all of you.


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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Guest » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:05 pm

Marcus wrote:unfortunately we can open the closed Layers for editing due to copyrights.
The same reason is for the Flexphraser, due to copyrights we are not allowed to "open" the Flexphraser.

I think you forgot the word "not" right?
Anyway, thanks for taking it in to account and communicating it back to us.
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby fstaudio » Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:17 pm

The same reason is for the Flexphraser, due to copyrights we are not allowed to "open" the Flexphraser.
Cheers,

Marcus

Understood, though could we at least have an import function opened up so we can import/make our own? In a similar manner to the way the midi import for the arp works in z3ta2. (failing that you could always just re-enable the 'Easter-egg' in the flexphraser that was present a few versions back... ;-) )
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Cantankerous » Mon Feb 04, 2013 7:53 pm

fstaudio wrote:
The same reason is for the Flexphraser, due to copyrights we are not allowed to "open" the Flexphraser.
Cheers,

Marcus

Understood, though could we at least have an import function opened up so we can import/make our own? In a similar manner to the way the midi import for the arp works in z3ta2. (failing that you could always just re-enable the 'Easter-egg' in the flexphraser that was present a few versions back... ;-) )


Care to share what this easter egg was?!?! I believe I missed it?

Terrible news indeed Marcus, these copyright issues have left some very important functions of Halion 4 very closed up and mostly useless as is. I sure hope other additions to the program help to gloss over this unfortunate shortcoming. Thanks for sharing however, bad news is better than no news.
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby JMCecil » Mon Feb 04, 2013 8:16 pm

I appreciate the effort.

I'm a bit disappointed with the copyright interpretation. That's an extremely conservative reading of copyright. You might as well cripple all the effects and filters as well. It is the same reading of the rules. So, I can't use the tool that is for the job to alter the sound, but I can do whatever I want with it externally? That makes no sense at all.
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby bilekt3 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:08 am

@Marcus, there is also question about update from @Cantankerous.

Cantankerous wrote:Speaking of updates, when is the next one? Things have been kinda dry. Besides 4.5 being released like 15 months ago, little to no new functionality has been added to Halion 4 at all.


I know that Steinberg is very strict to information. But, please, it is possible to tell us if HALion 5 is in Steinberg kitchen and there is chance to be released this year? Or we need wait for next release cycle. I assume that priority in VSTi is on Grove

:idea: Some of us have limited budgets for "Sound toys" and we need to adjust it very carefully. This kind of information and feedback is very important for me. Of course I love surprises but sometimes you need to rely on something stable...

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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Marcus » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:37 am

Hi guys,

I am very sorry and if I could I would open everything for editing....but I can not.

Cheers,

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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Cantankerous » Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:23 am

Marcus wrote:Hi guys,

I am very sorry and if I could I would open everything for editing....but I can not.

Cheers,

Marcus


It's ok Marcus, you tried and we appreciate the communication. Halion 4 is still great in its own right, but luckily I rely on it more for my own samples and not the included ones and I don't use the flexphraser at all, probably never will if it is so closed up. There are still many, many things that could be incorporated into Halion to make it even better and I am hoping for some additions that will help ease the pain of its shortcomings.
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby JMCecil » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:58 pm

Marcus wrote:Hi guys,

I am very sorry and if I could I would open everything for editing....but I can not.

Cheers,

Marcus

Marcus, I know you are just passing on info. I do appreciate it. I know you would if you could. I even understand the "reasoning" behind the information. I just don't agree with it. This is just a tiny example of why copyrights are a broken misused thing these days. I mean think about it ... you write content for a SAMPLER/ROMPLER, but for some reason you don't want the people using the SAMPLER/ROMPLER from messing with the content? You've basically turned the H4 into a $400 mp3 player. Again, I know it isn't you and in a way, not even Steinbergs for the decision. It is the overly latigious industry that music has become.
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby bilekt3 » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:07 pm

@Marcus - And question about updates?
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Guest » Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:08 pm

At the end of the day copyrights are protected, but some potential customers stay away because those who heavily rely on (re)sampling, layering and mangling sounds, have very good and proven alternatives for years.

After the Wizoo debacle (also legal issues) I gave Steinberg the benefit of the doubt by early investing in Halion Sonic and Halion 4, mainly because of the good integration with Cubase. And I have to say, the integration is fantastic and I've learned it can really speed up your work when you can drag and drop directly from a Cubase project to your sample player (it feels like sampling 2.0 ;)).

But for me, Halion 4 doesn't come close to the sample player from Berlin I already own. And unfortunately I can't drag and drop from Cubase's project window to that one. Logical choice, change sequencer.

Customer gone, less business for copyright owners, but..... copyrights protected!
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby fstaudio » Tue Feb 05, 2013 9:48 pm

JMCecil wrote: ... you write content for a SAMPLER/ROMPLER, but for some reason you don't want the people using the SAMPLER/ROMPLER from messing with the content?


When people ask to 'open up the flexphraser' I don't think they're saying 'let me build an entire track by drag and dropping the phrases into my DAW in loop library-style' , far from it. What I think people would like is more the ability to introduce useful, relevant musical variations into the phrases somehow, either by editing them, or ideally even being able to roll your own - within an editor in the HAL GUI perhaps, or by import of MIDI data, or some other method. Simply being able to do this would actually make the flexphraser, well...more flexible ;-)

Being able to work with it like the arps in say an M3 would be very nice ... :)

<post self-edited>
Last edited by fstaudio on Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby Marcus » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:03 pm

JMCecil wrote:Marcus, I know you are just passing on info. I do appreciate it. I know you would if you could. I even understand the "reasoning" behind the information. I just don't agree with it. This is just a tiny example of why copyrights are a broken misused thing these days. I mean think about it ... you write content for a SAMPLER/ROMPLER, but for some reason you don't want the people using the SAMPLER/ROMPLER from messing with the content? You've basically turned the H4 into a $400 mp3 player. Again, I know it isn't you and in a way, not even Steinbergs for the decision. It is the overly latigious industry that music has become.


We are talking about the 148 GM- Set/ Layers, which are just some presets of over 2000 for all Sets.
The rest is and was FULLY editable.


Cheers,

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Re: Edit Halion Sonic Program with Halion 4

Postby JMCecil » Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:06 pm

Marcus wrote:We are talking about the 148 GM- Set/ Layers, which are just some presets of over 2000 for all Sets.
The rest is and was FULLY editable.

Yeah, I understand... I'm more worried about the continued misuse and "interpretation" of copyright, more than this particular set of sounds. Sorry, if my response seemed over the top.

EDIT: And in no way do I direct any frustration at you! I'm glad you guys are actually trying to discuss some of these touchier areas. Just remember that touchy subjects get touchy replies :D Also forums aren't the easiest method by which to impart subtleties or nuances ... my posts tend to sound angry for some reason and I'm not an angry guy :lol:
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