nuendo and cubase simultaneously

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nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby [k] » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:41 am

Hey folks, just wanted to check if anyone's running nuendo and cubase simultaneously on one machine.

To answer some questions I expect to be asked, this would indeed require two separate licences on the dongle, and in my config I'd have each host using a dedicated sound card. That's so I can have them set to different sample rates, and the main benefit compared to using two computers is that projects can reside on a single folder. Additionally, plug-ins, DAWs, utillity app licences and installs can again be on one computer, not spread across two... much easier to handle and backup.
Nuendo - RME AES32, and Cubase - Lynx AES16. Windows PC.
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby neilwilkes » Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:33 pm

No problems at all with both Cubase & Nuendo on same system here.
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby Festivalstudios » Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:37 pm

Neil --are you actually running them at the same time --Rick
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby [k] » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:53 pm

Thanks for your replies.
Indeed, *simultaneously* is the operative word.
It'd be greatly appreciated if someone from Steinberg could shed a light on this.
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby [k] » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:06 pm

I've had confirmation from another source; both software running at the same time on one computer.
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby neilwilkes » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:46 pm

Festivalstudios wrote:Neil --are you actually running them at the same time --Rick


Ah, no.
www.opusproductions.com
Intel E5-2687W 8-core Xeon, 32Gb RAM, Windows 7 Pro x64, RME RayDAT, UAD-2 Octo x2 & Quad x2 (fully loaded), Adam A7 x5, WK ID Console
Nuendo 1-6, Cubase 6-7, WaveLab 5-7, DTS/DD encoders, Surround Edition etc, Waves Mercury
Blu-Ray authoring, DVD authoring & high resolution audio specialists.

Detailed Specs on request
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby [k] » Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:50 am

I should also add that the fella who kindly tested this for me merely fired up both apps and selected interfaces and I/O in the config menus. 1 track with audio and one plug-in in each app, hit play and then closed everything down.
There wasn't any further testing, ie real sessions/days of work.
I'll post again once I try it on my system - by the end of the month.
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby [k] » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:08 am

Nuendo & Cubase running simultaneously (not just installed) on one computer at different sample rates:
It works perfectly.

I've been testing it for two days without a single hickup under full load, various session configurations, and irrational moves.

As a side note, I briefly tested UAD and Powercore cards that were available, and they also work inside both applications at the same time. In theory, any hardware powered plug-in should work fine.

Besides the two software licenses, a reminder again that in order to run each application at a different sample rate, you need two audio interfaces that each has its own driver and control panel. For example, if you tried to do this with two RME HDSP cards it wouldn't have worked. Same for the Lynx PCI's etc.

On a different note, I'll have to do some very similar tests with PTHD as well, but that's irrelevant here. If you want details, feel free to PM. Along similar lines, it might be of use to some if I mention that you can't fully resolve this configuration (referring to clock and transport sync) because of the different sample rates involved. MTC or analog LTC along with MMC is as far as you can go to sync the trasports because digitally transmitted timecode can't work in this config, and there's also nothing you can do about syncing the ADDA's. I had extensive discussions with most top designers of sync devices; this info is valid, unfortunately, and it's got nothing to do with the DAWs themselves. If both software are set to the same sample rate then none of these sync issues apply and you're all good. Again, as this is quite irrelevant to this forum, if anyone wants details, PM.
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby Brandy » Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:37 pm

I do it from time to time - working in Nuendo and using Cubase (simultaneously) to - for example - export tracks n stuff from different projects n C to import them in Nuendo.. without the need to switch/load projects all the time.

Because I hate having more then one projects open in Cubase OR Nuendo.. This gives still a lot of errors!

I never tried using different sampling rates cause I have a masterclock, but I would assume that this is possible - for example using the Asio driver in Nuendo and using the onboard-multimedia stuff in Cubase...

Only problem I had so far is the access of certain plugins... UAD2 stuff can come up with the message "one or more UAD2 plugins are disabled.. blabla" - same for Waves stuff. I can not recall it because I am under the impression as well that it can work. Same for Halion One - when used in Cubase I can not load in Nuendo in the same time. Must be a licenseing thing...
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby [k] » Sat Feb 02, 2013 9:23 am

I hear you about straight up session exchange facilities, it's often an issue.

Hadn't had any issue with latest Waves on ilok2. I checked a whole bunch of them, however very briefly because they're not really needed in the second software. Same for the dsp cards.

As far as having two software open just for track exhange or quick auditioning, you don't need any synchronization, and a third party master clock or any master-slave config will have nothing to do with it.

You can do different sample rates as long as you use two separate drivers-soundcards.
The only issue with that is fully resolving the two DAWs - if you need such a thing.

To be specific, there are two obstacles there:
- Transport sync: There's no unit/software out there that will decode the timecode information that is embedded in a digital audio stream and then encode it at another sample rate. Why digital signals for LTC? It's by far the most accurate option compared to MTC (over MIDI) and LTC over analog transmission.
- Converter/clock sync: There's also no sync device available that will convert incoming clock to a non-integer one that's in sync with the source frequency. What's available is integer division and multiplication of the source clock frequency. That leaves out most of the possible source-destination sample rate combinations (the converters are then free-running).

Re transport sync, I also want to try patching MTC and MMC virtually. MIDI-Yoke and/or MIDI-OX might do the trick; could prove to be a very neat solution. I'd be looking at a MIDIoverLan type of solution for a two computer setup.

Perhaps it's best to clarify again that if both software are running at the same sample rate then you've got none of these issues. That's because there's plenty of readily available solutions to accommodate the sync tasks. There's also soundcards whose ASIO driver lets you use them in more than one software at once - this works for a single sample rate.
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby [k] » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:15 pm

Modiyoke has been working as expected for MTC and MMC between the two apps. Obviously this being MIDI based, there's a bit of irregular offset of a few ms, but nothing that can't be handled with pre and post roll in this application (the second app acting as a stem recorder).

There were going to be a couple of edits and offline processes on the destination tracks anyway, so doing quick top and tailing to match the source session positions is not an issue prior to the final offline bounce, which is very quick and mostly automated with a coupe of macros. The deliverables are then batch renamed in the pool and fished out of the audio folder.

All in all, this works well to establish a great workflow that besides negating SRC of either source or destination files (one of the main requirements here), it keeps all audio and data on one computer. Session access and backup is a breeze now. The additional benefits are computer resourse allocation is much better with two apps instead of one (compared to using a single app, the ASIO meter in one app can max out while the second app is unaffected), as well as using single plug-in licenses instead of two, one for each computer. All utility apps are also in one computer now, which is much more efficient.

By doing this I've also gotten rid of two cumbersome kvm and monitor locking boxes along with all their cabling that made one side of the machine room look like a tortured mess, and of course now there's a spare computer too. The KVM was actually not working with wireless keyboard/mouse, so these have also been changed to wireless.

What's been incredibly helpful with the two app setup being open simultaneously was the change of Windows' window focus to ''focus follows pointer''. That's a linux inspired feature that makes a window active when you hover over it - without clicking on it. It's an easy registry edit that can also be handled by the TweakUI utility app in older XP machines. That along with having a transport controller permanently hooked to the MMC master makes working with this rig nearly as easy as working with one app, and a whole lot better than working with two computers.

Take care,
k
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby Breeze » Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:38 pm

[k] wrote:Nuendo & Cubase running simultaneously (not just installed) on one computer at different sample rates:
It works perfectly.
...
Besides the two software licenses, a reminder again that in order to run each application at a different sample rate, you need two audio interfaces that each has its own driver and control panel. For example, if you tried to do this with two RME HDSP cards it wouldn't have worked. Same for the Lynx PCI's etc.

Thanks for reporting this. It'll be interesting to see if different sampling rates would work using an RME card and the motherboard's audio via ASIO4ALL.
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby [k] » Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:57 pm

I'm a bit perplexed as to why anyone would touch onbrard cards and ASIO4ALL in a studio.
If I'm not mistaken, you and Brandy must be talking exclussively about having two sessions open just for data exchange, and the main session would be using your primary soundcard. This should work fine.

For anything beyond that, I'd read the ASIO4ALL and the card it's wrapping specs first, try it in practice, and examine the results' sound and relevant audio measurements very carefully under all possible configurations. Going by memory on the specs alone, it's certain that you'd run into issues of all sorts.
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Re: nuendo and cubase simultaneously

Postby Brandy » Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:02 pm

In my case I am not using different soundcards - I would never install Asio4All or similar on my studio daw... So I can not talk about running different sampling rates... But it works running Cubase and Nuendo simultaneous using the same driver and same in/out config. Just avoid hitting playback when the other application is in playback mode - will give you nice clipping sound :)
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