Midi timing suggestion on recorded VST instruments.

Don’t use midi equipment that doesn’t come with a proper (non class-level) driver.

:unamused:
You are getting really annoying Padawan. You just fail to see the problem.
It’s not about the midi timing. What happens is that after recording midi notes appear EARLIER in the editor.
Better midi drivers will not let the midinotes appear where they should be.

It has to do with the latency of VST instruments. That latency is compensated for in Cubase, so because of that the midi notes appear earlier because they are not taken in the equation.

Can you please read carefully all replies and join constructively or shut up?

Greetz Dylan.

No greeting required Dylan, for I am not even sure that you are experiencing the problem?

I have never experienced the problem so it is quite likely one of those issues that are infinitely unsolvable without the purchase of improved hardware.

The only person whom as I see things (enemy or not) who really has any idea about this at all would be Como, as he has bitten the bullet long ago and purchased the proper kit as I have said myself in another post.

Oh and PDC was never invented or invisioned for use on the recording side of the DAW, it was, is and always will be a mixing paradigm.

Cheers

Okay,
Turns out you can’t read , didn’t realize that, sorry.

This thread is getting confusing because different problems are adressed but I want to stick with the original one.

Joel the OP wrote: And this is the part I am interested in:

When recording on a VST instrument’s track, Cubase
should move the timing of notes forward - equal amount of ms as is the
current output latency. This to give the player and the recorded take justice.

AFAIK, this would explain why midi notes appear earlier in the editor.
This also points out that mididrivers, sytem timestamp, hardware configuration are irrelevant in this scenario.

In my case, I have this behaviour since I start working with VST instruments.
When I used a Korg Triton as sound generator the midi was always in place.
Nowadays I solely work with softsynths.

All I want to know is if Joel has a point or not.
Arguing about midi hardware clutters up this important thread.

Greetz Dylan.

What I think should not be forgotten is systems are not systems unless their timing is accurate and any form of “compensation” in the record path is an indication that something is not right somewhere.

There are many examples of hardware, in particular USB type interfaces that have tried to overcome the inherint timing innacuracies of the USB (buss) but with limited success.

For example terratec, lexicon have both done this but for my purposes I simply tolerate what latency my system produces or use something else and sometimes the old way is the best way and herin lies the answer.

It has nothing to see with drivers, just let this go. The same controller recorded notes prefectly in time on other DAWs on the same computer. The same controller connected by MIDI and plugged to a MIDI interface with the 5-pin cable recorded early notes as well inside Cubase, so its something soft related and not dependant on drivers.

People who has this issueare having it for quite a long time (in my case, since Cubase 4 and with 2 diferent computers). The strange thing is that apparently, and at the same time unfortunately, not everybody suffers this problem. So it seems Steinberg wont fix it.

That’s right because not all DAW’s are the same, and nor do they use the same technologies.

whatever, but the point is this proves is not the driver.

All threads like this prove Ed, is that it’s the user and not Steinberg that is at fault.

Damn, you are right! I was pluggin the controller to the DVD-R unit! thats why the notes were recorded earlier!

Seriously, your last post is kinda funny :slight_smile:

Funny if you are aligned with the Dark Side of the force maybe but showstopping for those just trying to record their MIDI performances.

The thing about this situation is Steinberg have designed something, and were anyone to read the manual on this subject they would see that it was never made to be some kind of solution for all system ills, in fact it guarantees nothing so how can Steinberg be expected to “fix” anything when the service is a best effort?

Besides, there are way better MIDI interfaces out there than what has been touted thus far, that have addressed these kinds of problems with timing and none of them are USB, except maybe one company who was able to push the envelope a little more than what was previously the case, I’ll give a hint, they are the same people as those making the software, in relation to their personal (not professional) identity.

I really dont see where you are going man.

When you say: “it was never made to be some kind of solution for all system ills” what do you mean? Do you mean they released a major brilliant sequencer but they didnt guarantee it could record MIDI performaces as they are if there´s something introducing latency like a VSTi? Man this is the most basic feature on a sequencer, and they cant guarantee it working on all computers? Its like I sell you a tenis racket, but its not gonna place the ball where you aim too, just a little to the left (literally). For sure you can still play tenis but i sold you a expensive, PRO racket which should just place the ball as expected, cause you´ve been playing tenis since you were 5 yold and you know exactly where to place it.

The second point is about Steinberg´s MIDI interfaces right? I´d be glad if someone having them can confirm they dont have this issue (on PC and working with VSTis).

Padawan, i am happy using cubase, i love it and i found a workaround for this thing. I am not a hater whatsoever and i dotn think i can quit using Cubasse, its now too late for me. I am just saying its really disappointing that some of us cant record MIDI correctly (is there anything more basic?) specially since the solution seems to be as easy as a checkbox on the devices setup with “delay recorded MIDI by the amount of system latency”.

I dont try to disencourage anyone using Cubase, i just have my opinion on this subject and i didnt blame Steinberg service or something. They wont be fixing this and they said it on the other thread, its not that i made this up .

******** OK!! IMPORTANT MESSAGE THAT STICKS TO THE SUBJECT HERE******

Thanks a lot Dylan btw. I saw you’re message while I was writing this post

I can see why this thing creates lots of confusion.
It seems even those in the know, get’s confused, whether this is a problem or not.
Some never really bother about this even it’s a true case while others do.
But we all could agree of that we don’t mind if our recorded VST instrument
would sound authentic without the need of further editing, right?

This is the first time I have a complain.
First time I write on a forum too :wink:

I want to believe that the number of folks that are bothered with this
should be many enough to encourage developer’s to fix this. Or join this discussion.

To be clear: This is about recording VST instruments. I’m not discussing Audio or outboard
midi because I think it works perfectly.

Looking at the recorded notes and controller data in the midi editor it seems early a bit.
And that’s correct in terms of that the notes and controller data actually are registered
at the same time we hit the keys or bent the wheel. We played them a bit
early - purposely, without thinking about it, because musically, we compensate for the
latency with our hands and rhythmic sense.

Now, when the sequencer plays it back - it’s prepared to play it directly (ZERO ms) from the
time we hit the key, or bent the pitch, stepped the pedal, wiggled the mod.

I think it’s wrong in a musical aspect.

After some posts and further readings around the web I still believe the best cure for this is that:
Midi notes and CC data should be registered by the sequencer - Later

Then we would sit back, press play and:

  • Listen to the take as we recorded it.
  • No need to nudge anything to make it authentic.
  • Quantize function gets more reliable.

Thanks for the link to that discussion EdCubasero. I think the discussion unluckily got out of focus in that thread.

1 Like

Hey Ed, classical troll that Padawan. He’s literally not responding to the actual subject.The way I see it, the only way to debate with an idiot is to sink to his level, and that is wasted energy. So ignore him, maybe he gets bored after a while and finds something else to do :smiley: (wasn’t there a new starwarsgame online?)

I just calculated that if I nudge every midi container .022 to the right via the info line after recording my performance locks right in. So for now I am happy.
The offset in the info line or the delay in the inspector are not much help.

So yes if Steinberg would implement a little application so that we can command Cubase to move every midi performance after a recording then all problems would be solved.

Greetz Dylan.

If you have this 0.22 you can created a macro (stop + move midi 0.22) assign to a keycommand and hit that key whenever you finish recording instead of stop. I tried it on the space bar but well…it was a mess cause you are used to play STOP so many times… :smiley:

the problem for me is this is not a fixed value. I go for lower latencies when composing then switch to higher ones when mixing and the composition is finished. That would make this 0.22 a higher value if i want to record something on the mixing stage. So the keycommand wont be accurate at some point.

Nah!! It should be done automatically. When do we not want it to happen?
I don’t remember me ever thinking Now I want my recording to be placed a little bit earlier than I intended.

You’re right, well then a button so that you can switch compensation on and off for those who don’t have the problem.

EdCubasero… That’s the smoothest workaround I’ve heard about. :laughing:

But as you say… It fails if changing the buffer size.

And… I can’t see why we even need to make those workarounds for this
to work properly.

I took away this comment - it was misleading sry…