User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,Click

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User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,Click

Postby SteveInChicago » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:46 am

(I edited the subject to focus attention on the benefits to implementing this.)

Please implement the facility to set the beat value ourselves, and to make grid be configurable for odd meters and compound time signatures.

As it stands if the sig is 11/16 the grid will be quarter, quarter dotted 8th, but the groove might not flow like that, and if I want to group it, say, 4, 3, 4, I am out of luck. Cubase just puts the grid lines at quarters and then truncates the measure. 11/16 yields 2 quarter notes and a dotted 8th; 12/16, 3 quarters; and 13/16 3 quarters plus a 16th note.

This is common in Greek, Balkan, Arabic, contemporary classical music, Flamenco (and many other musics I'm sure)

What I want to be able to do is configure measures using values. e.g.: (4,3,4)/16 or (4,3)/8, or (4,3,3,4)/16

Can we please have customizable grids in the project window and editors?

This could also satisfy the lacking support for compound time signatures, see below https://www.steinberg.net/forum/viewtop ... 49#p239649

edited to add Flamenco
Last edited by SteveInChicago on Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:36 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Postby SteveInChicago » Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:40 am

bump
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Postby mozizo » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:16 am

what about using as follow ?
from your example 11/16 with 4/16 - 3/16 - 4/16 then duplicate/repeat them in tempo track.

a pic example
tempo t.jpg
(256.78 KiB) Not downloaded yet


this way u also hear the click on the down bits u want
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Postby mozizo » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:20 am

but would be nice to have "sub time signature editor" to follow the groove and grids u want
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Postby SteveInChicago » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:33 am

mozizo wrote:what about using as follow ?
from your example 11/16 with 4/16 - 3/16 - 4/16 then duplicate/repeat them in tempo track

this way u also hear the click on the down bits u want


Yes! This is exactly how I do it now. And yes, it does give the right metronome.

However, it becomes problematic when I go to Score Edit. I can hide the time sigs on every bar, then I would have to hide barlines.

It would be nice to simply be able to set up the grid using numbers like: 4+3+4/16 or even simply 3+3+2, and have the metronome follow.

Digital Performer's metronome is can be configured exactly like this. (though whether it does custom grids like this I don't know.)
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Postby mozizo » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:35 pm

well i welcome this feature too.. didnt think about score, its going to be a mass and time consuming has it is now with odd meters and groove click/grids
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Re: Configurable grids for odd meter time sigs

Postby SteveInChicago » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:36 pm

Yay. I have been wanting this forever.

Also would like to be able to create a pattern based metronome, rather than have to create a click track. That's a separate feature request...
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Compound time, odd meter click and grid improvements

Postby SteveInChicago » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:13 pm

I thought I would bump this to point out an (obvious) additional benefit that would come from implementing this request: Compound time signatures.

An example would be: In 6/8 the beat can be either the 8th or the dotted quarter.

The heavy lines in the grid should fall on the beat, But Cubase doesn't do that, and the metronome just marks the numerator's number of beats per measure (top number in the sig)

While it is possible to go into metronome settings and adjust it to 3/8 count base to get the metronome simply on 1 and 4,activating the count base option means the click will not change along with the time signatures.

It comes down to the fact that we need to able to set the beat value ourselves.

I updated the OP and subject line too.
Last edited by SteveInChicago on Tue May 21, 2013 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: User defined the beat values: Compound time and odd meter

Postby r.u.sirius » Fri Mar 29, 2013 6:53 pm

such a feature would be great, no need to build an individual click track with my trusty cowbell sample anymore!
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Re: User defined beat values: Compound time and odd meter

Postby SteveInChicago » Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:22 am

bumpity
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Re: User defined beat values: Compound time and odd meter

Postby Crotchety » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:21 am

SteveInChicago wrote:In 6/8 the beat can be either the 8th or the dotted quarter.

You're right, the grid is wrong for a 6/8. It should be 2 beats of triplets. At the very least, the bold line should be at 1.4, even if they don't change the labels.

I don't want to get into the horrors of 11/16 (you into jazz or something?) but I wish you well with your campaign.
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Re: User defined beat values: Compound time and odd meter

Postby SteveInChicago » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:41 am

Hi Crochety.

Yeah, I play jazz, but the odd meter stuff is from Balkan, Romanian and other Oriental type musics.

Also, Metal heads are into odd meters, they are fun to play with. Thanks!
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Re: User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,Click

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Jul 20, 2013 3:47 pm

bump... for visibility of new Cubase users, and old ;)
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Re: User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,Click

Postby dr4kan » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:03 pm

+1

I also work very often with odd signatures. In addition to the request of the post, I would also ask the possibility od setting the click patterns of the metronome track. I try to clarify the point:

let's take a 7/8 signature. The metronome will play at every 1/8th, however we musicians often "count" a 7/8 as a 3/4 + 1/8...I almost never "count" all the 1/8th...it's a mess!

So, I'd like to set the metronome track to "count" in this way ;)
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Re: User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,C

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Jul 20, 2013 9:04 pm

dr4kan wrote:I would also ask the possibility od setting the click patterns of the metronome track.


Allow me to present my feature request for that! viewtopic.php?f=182&t=35976
Last edited by SteveInChicago on Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,Click

Postby suntower » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:31 pm

A big two snaps up.

Also: not just useful for 'odd' meters. Take something like Flamenco which may 'feel' like 12/8 or 9/8 to civilians but that's not how it's -counted- or =felt=.

On that note, I would LOVE to have the some sort of tie-in with the metronome so the accented note(s) would auto-magically change to reflect changes in the grid.
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Re: User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,C

Postby SeeWhat » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:44 pm

+1

And expand all meter improvement correction to MediaBay where the loop tempo analysis freaks out when we enter 12/8 ...... :cry: :evil:

come on Steinberg this compound meter mishandling is wrong since Cubase 1 on Atari ST

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Re: User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,C

Postby jpm999 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:10 am

+1, This would be super useful. Asymmetrical rhythms used so often in film scores, 7/8 can be (1,2) (1,2) (1,2,3) or (1,2,3) (1,2) (1,2) , etc.
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Re: User defined beat values: Grid,Compound time,odd meter,C

Postby MrSmith » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:09 pm

Bump
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