Mixing Headphones (Help ?)

Reply from Beyerdynamic


Hello Mr. Seaman,

thank you for your email! We offer a very nice headphone amp named A 1 http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/headphones-amps/a-1-220-240-v.html

and will soon show the new A 20 http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/hah/headphones-and-headsets/at-home/headphones-amps/a-20.html.

So if you want a beyerdynamic amplifier to drive your phones, this is no problem! But you don´t need one necessarily. Any headphone output can drive a 600 ohms headphone, the question is: does it supply enough voltage to drive it loud enough. Apart from “loud enough” being a very subjective factor, it really depends on the voltage, the headphone output is capable to deliver and there is no international standard for minimal requirements.

In general, many battery- or wall-wart powered units work with lower internal voltages (which also may limit their output voltage) as gear with an internal power supply, but as always, this is just a rule of thump. You can power your studio monitors with a 3W triode tube amplifier, a massive Bryston or Crown Reference (or whatever) amp or a regular hifi-stereo amplifier: all three will work, but propably differently.

To our ears, the 250 ohms headphone models are the best compromise between achievable level with “most” headphone outputs and detailed sound. Due to their thinner wire for the voice coil (and therefore lower moving mass), the 600 ohms model sounds even more detailed but may eventually play less loud than the lower impedance version on several “regular” headphone outputs. For maximum level, regardless of the impedance, you will need a dedicated headphone amplifier. Either built-in into a monitor controller / interface or as an external unit like A 1, A 20 and several other amps from other manufacturers.

Kind regards,

Klaus Kirchhöfer
beyerdynamic GmbH & Co. KG

im using audeze, you would need to extend the budget (they’re $1k), but if its the one and only source for mix judgements i think its justifiable, you can be sure of your mix decisions on those.

I was going to suggest you try the 250 Ω model as it would indeed be a good compromise. I would also suggest you try it without an amp first before you spend extra money if it’s not needed.

According to Beyerdynamic:
VERSIONS
DT 880 32 Ω, for portable players . . . . . . . Order # 483.931
DT 880 250 Ω, for home hi-fi systems . . . . Order # 481.793
DT 880 600 Ω, for high end systems . . . . . Order # 491.322

check out the Spec sheet PDF on the Technical Data tab.

:astonished: :astonished: :astonished: :astonished: :astonished:

Thanks !! i am only a novice and so am not on the level of ever earning a living from Mixing.

Brilliant advice thanks. i totally agree. :smiley:

Let us know how it works out, Kinda interested to see if you can get decent volume out of your headphone output on the 250ohm ones.

It will be used via my Steinberg C12+ for Mixing in the foremost, and then just plugged into a regular mp3 player for general listening purposes (though this will will useful in helping me get aquainted to the ‘sound’ of the headphones in different instances).

I asked in here before buying my last pair of cans, and I was told to buy Grado SR80. Street price is about $100, and I love them! Nice, flat response in my opinion.

Note that they are open ear headphones.

Ta mate, though i think i am going to go with the BD DT800 250ohm.

Availability of Grado’s really depend on where you live though, there are none to be found in my area :wink:

I bought mine online.

++

and while tracking vocals, you can keep one cup off your ear, sound muted. Magic.

As for mixing. If the mix sounds good on these, it must sound good on anything. Mixcube of headphones.

Thanks Arimus,

i will remember that one cup off the ear trick !!

Ta.

Paul

Great thread!

I came across this via another post and thought I’d add my 2-bobs worth!

I am an Ex-pat living in Santiago, Chile who was limited with what I could bring over and thus had to opt for some headphones to do everything!

My ‘local music expert’ (actually a guy I trust & have dealt with for many years) recommended the Beyer DT770 PRO 250 Ohm for me based on use/quality/budget/flat response. My primary use has been for tracking (hence closed), but also for everything else. I had to compromise the advantages of open headphones for the preference (and advantage) of less audio bleed while recording. And yes, as someone posted, closed ‘cans’ are fatiguing!

But, I have found Beyers excellent for my purposes. They are not perfect - there is a bit of a push around 4khz, but I try to take that in to account. I guess you’d need to do the same when using studio monitors in imperfect rooms anyway!

So, I do my best with what I have and hope that more attuned I get to the response of my headphones I can get the best out of my recordings!

I have the BD DT880 Pro’s for mixing, and the BD DT770 Pro’s for tracking. Sometimes for mixing I switch them just to hear things differently. They are both comfortable, sound fine, and of course have the reputation of being very flat/unflattering. They don’t sound identical, but I can’t verbalize what differences I’m hearing yet.

The 880s are 250 ohms, I drive them with my Omni I/O interface with a lot of volume to spare, and I can also plug them into my laptop and hear things great.

The hardest thing I found when mixing on cans was that I could hear sounds panned to the sides (reverb, or wide synths, for example) so much more prominently than when I put the same mix on speakers. I’m learning to compensate, very clumsily still, so that things sound good on both cans and speaker monitors. Man, this stuff isn’t easy!

Thanks Alexis,

I have the BD DT880 Pro’s for mixing, and the BD DT770 Pro’s for tracking.

Whats does ‘tracking’ mean please ??

The hardest thing I found when mixing on cans was that I could hear sounds panned to the sides (reverb, or wide synths, for example) so much more prominently than when I put the same mix on speakers. I’m learning to compensate, very clumsily still, so that things sound good on both cans and speaker monitors. Man, this stuff isn’t easy.

This is something which i am tryring to get to grips with, and why i am interested in the results you describe from your BD DT880’s. i am very new to mixing and until 6 x months ago i could not hear any recording techniques like ‘panning’ simply because i have never really listened out for such settings before. But since January i have started spending some time each day listening to the ‘panning’ of instruments on various cd’s (thru my current pair of Senheisser headphones). i am starting to hear things now but it really is not easy to say for certain the positioning of certain instruments. Obviously this is due to my ‘ears’ having not been trained in this particular area.

‘Tracking’ in this case means recording audio through a microphone. If someone is singing, while also listening to the rest of the song through headphones, it is possible that the music coming through the cans is picked up by the microphone, which is usually considered undesirable.

The DT 7700s are a “closed” design, with plastic all around the outside to help the sound stay “inside” the headphones and away from the mic. The DT 880s are “open”, so a lot more sound gets out. That’s fine if there is no microphone around, like when mixing, maybe not so much when tracking.

For the rest of it, sounds like you are on the right path, a little “listening exercise” every day! Others can give you far better advice than I, but maybe one exercise to try (if your version of Cubase supports it) is to listen to a commercial track with the pan controls full wide, then shrink the panning field so the blue area becomes smaller and smaller, until ultimately it becomes mono. At each stage of narrowing of the stereo field, it should sound different.

Happy tunes!

Thanks Alexis,

Thats very helpful mate.

For the rest of it, sounds like you are on the right path, a little “listening exercise” every day! Others can give you far better advice than I, but maybe one exercise to try (if your version of Cubase supports it) is to listen to a commercial track with the pan controls full wide, then shrink the panning field so the blue area becomes smaller and smaller, until ultimately it becomes mono. At each stage of narrowing of the stereo field, it should sound different.

Do you mean i import a regular mp3 recording from a cd, Pan the left and right hard, and then gradually bring the left and right to center ?? If i import a cd then will it not just be placed in one single channel ?? To perform what you are suggesting would i not need the song to be in two channels (one for the left audio and the other for the right) ??

Thanks,

Paul

Hi MJL - You’re very welcome!

As far as importing a CD, most of them nowadays are stereo, which means they have a left and right channel that are not identical. You will be able to visually confirm that when you compare the shape of the waveforms after you import the CD. But yes, the other part is what I meant - open up a panner with a separate left and right control, then stepwise bring them each to center, listening and comparing after each change.

Like I said, there are going to be much better ways to listen to panning which other guys here can help you with, but that’s just a way to get started.

Have fun! :smiley:

Thanks a lot Alexis,

But yes, the other part is what I meant - open up a panner with a separate left and right control, then stepwise bring them each to center, listening and comparing after each change.

i will have a try out over the weekend mate :smiley:

Paul