Your Orchestral Templates - Workflow - Grouping ?

Yeah, it gets real messy in there; that’s why I get it all setup in VEP instead. I use 4 or 5 instances of VEP, so that’s only 4 or 5 of the VEP interface loaded into Cubase’s VI rack, which makes it easier to organize all the ins and outs for articulation-heavy libraries like LASS.

Could put all the strings in one VEP instance, so they all fit where they need to be in Cubase’s mixer.

I’m not sure what you’re doing wrong. You can definately move whole folders and individual outputs. I do it all the time. Just checked (make sure I’m not losing my mind!) and it worked fine. Moved in the project and the mixer.

Perhaps ther is a preference selection for the mixer order to follow the project . . .?

I can create, say, 4 x 8 out instances of Kontakt. Then move any instance of Kontakt to any position (the whole folder). Or if you want to get crazy you can tacke individual outputs and place them anywhere outside of the folder - with your audio tracks . . . next to a MIDI track . . . whatever. And the mixer follows.
Cubase 7.03.

I’m using Rack Kontakt instances also. Very rarely use Instrument Tracks.

Are you grabbing the Kontakt folders on the name (of course, silly, I know)?

Hugh

Well jose7822 immediately knew the problem i have re: vst Instrument/mixer sorting so im obviously not alone. Perhaps it’s in the preferences but im almost certain the reordering issue has been mentioned quite alot to Steiny. I shall try and make a screencast to show you what i mean.

Maybe I’m not understanding you.

Pic1 the Piano and Kt Unass. . (2 stereoouts) are first in Project and mixer.


Pic2 the Cello is are on top.

2 different Kontakt instances.
Is this what you were talking about?

Hugh

And here I moved the Piano output out of it’s folder and up between an Audio Track and a MIDI Track.


Mixer follows.

Sorry for all these sloppy pics . .
There’s 3 Kontakts open, etc but it makes the point.

Hugh

A clearer example:




Hugh

Thanks for that, i am quite baffled now though because that does not work for me. Can Steinberg chime in and suggest perhaps why not? I will make a screencast soon though to demonstarte it does not work in my daw.

Quoting Helge from a similar discussion

Maybe this is why its not working for me, i use Stereo Out on the right hand zones and usually just disable Input, Midi, and Rewire on Channel types.


Helge please answer :wink: :wink:

Well i didn’t go through all posts in this thread, but just to make sure u do the right thing.
to move “VSTi outputs” channels in the order u want to show up in the mixer , u should move those outputs up or down from project window inside the vsti instruments folder. inside that folder u can move vsti folder up or down or move specific output channels of the vsti in subfolders (those who have the keyboard sign next to them).

** maybe there is an option in preferences to synch mixer and project though, (im not next to cubase right now to check)

Well thankyou Mozizo that was it. Are people putting their tracks in that aswell? Ive always sequenced outside of it, i just used to use that subfolder for outside automation


When making a Vst Instrument instance Cubase asks if you also want it to create a track, i always decline because id rather make it later on.


It seems abit illogical that you cant do the same thing outside of that folder.


Here’s how im usually sequencing.

http://imageupper.com/gi/?galID=S0200010011Q13679478971882589&n=1&m=1

Yeah, I looked for an option and didn’t find one.

I also never create MIDI tracks when adding an instrument to the rack.
There is an option to turn off that prompt in preferences. I also believe you can have it ALWAYS create a MIDI track.

I, also, lock my output channels (stereo and 5.1) to the right of the mixer.

When Helge talks about locking tracks and hiding them - he just means if you lock them to the right in the mixer they won’t move when you move them in the project window. and if you hide them . . . well . . .you won’t see them at all. But they still are seen and move in the list of available tracks in the mixer.

Also, VSTi outputs do not have to stay in ANY folder. You can put them anywhere.
See my third example above (pic6) where I moved the first output from all three instances of Kontakt to the top of the window - no folder.

Hugh

Welll thanks guys thats saved me alot of time. Cant believe I didn’t try it. Still, i would have thought it made more sense for the reordering of tracks to work outside of that vst folder where people are doing the sequencing.

I guess now i can only ask Steinberg that they allow arranging tracks within the Mixer itself. Although Ive seen people requesting that for years!

And

It would be really nice to be able to name each VI instance upon activation, instead of 50 Kontakts - you can name them - Choir, Bass, Strings etc.

Thanks,
Will

Also do any of you know why Cubase is limited to 64 Virtual Instrument Slots ?

I’m still not quite clear on what you were doing wrong . . .

Were you trying to move them somewhere other than the Project Window?

Personally, I don’t really mind moving tracks only in the Project Window (though you’re right - this has been mucho requested). On my dual monitors it’s always open and accessible . . .so . .

What I REALLY want to see is the same “hide/show tracks” thing and “agents” implemented in the Project Window.

Hugh

as for moving track order directly in mixconsole,i saw a topic where helge says its not yet implemented which means they are going to do it i future i guess.

as for the subject. the midi channel as nothing to do with the actual audio output signal of that vsti.
think the vsti in rack as an hardware synth, u use the midi track to sequence(record the midi info) and that synth(or vsti) has also other audio output that goes to audio channel to hear it.

on the other hand Instrument Track is combined, u can record midi to it and also the audio output is there, the disadvantage is of course that is limited for one voice/output. so u cant use for example record/use more then 1 channel in multi timbral vsti as kontakt. see here the differences.Cubase 5.5: Instrument Track vs Midi track - YouTube

yes, and nowadays it doesn’t seem to make much difference if you use 16 separate instances of Kontakt/EW Play/Halion etc each with one sound or 2 multitimbral versions with 16 channels. In the past multi timbral VI’s were a necessity due to low power/memory computers of the time and probably as a legacy of hardware devices. I’ve been using multiple versions of VI’s now for a while with no performance issues.

I will point out though my template isn’t as large as your guys and I tend to use key switching in EW play so will load all articulations for each instrument track.



MC

Thanks for the explanation, i used vst5 score for so long and jumped ship throughout the sx series, then dived in at Cubase 5 so must have missed some glaringly obvious changes. I was using those outputs for automation, didn’t register they would serve to reorder but when you put it like that its obvious :confused:


Hugh i was trying to reorder project Midi channels instead of the ones inside of Vst Instruments. So in the image below i thought i could just reorder the channels outside of the vst instruments folder - my main sequenced stuff - spics/stacs/drums/synths etc.

http://imageupper.com/i/?S0200010080011Y1368017543684452


I would find that way of doing it far quicker and cleaner, especially considering you can’t rename the VST Instrument instances (have to count through 50/60 channels that all say kontakt!). I noticed you can move them but it would be nice for those outputs to be combined (like instrument tracks) for a cleaner UI. Although i can imagine some cons aswell as the pros to that.

Hi Norbury,

Although Its abit OCDish the main reason i need so many outputs is because i just cant mix nowing i don’t have full control of a multi with just a single out (plus i hate keyswitching), and with the ammount of Instruments in strings libs such as Lass and huge woods/brass libs it adds up. I realise you can use VSL/Play etc to mix, like kontakt, but i like everything inside of the DAW mixer. With only 64 counts of Vst Instrument channels in Cubase im forced to combine everything in patches.


Steinberg - why only 64 instances of Vst Instruments ?