Android version - coming soon!

Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby Lydiot » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:07 pm

papi61 wrote:Yes, but I'm pretty sure that things are going to change soon. Remember what we wanted when the iPad was introduced: laptop power in a smaller, lighter, more portable form factor. Since at that time it was an impossible feat, basically Apple went about a decade in the past with much inferior computing power and put in a PHONE operating system. Android was developed with the same concept in mind. Which means that none of these OS's can develop much more than they've already done. Now that 8-inch Win 8.1 tablets with Bay Trail are finally available (end of this month), the old dream of having a REAL computer in one hand is finally coming true and I'm pretty sure that sooner or later people will realize how primitive iOS and Android are compared to a fully-functional OS like Windows. Heck, even simple file management on iOS and Android is a hassle. Again, because they are PHONE operating systems and they were never meant to do anything harder than social media, video playing, e-book reading, email etc.

A Bay Trail tablet can actually run Cubase 7. What other tablet can do that? (I mean aside from i5 tablets, of course, but those will cost substantially more.)


I understand what you're saying. The problem is that right now Android is the biggest "portable" OS. People buy Android devices because they're the best value out there, and they buy them for general computing. People buy Apple for the style, for general computing, and it is also overrepresented in our industry (compared to general marketshare).

But where does that leave Windows? In our industry it'd compete with Apple products. And we all know how fond many people are of their iWhatevers. Not that people won't buy Win tablets, they will, but not in huge numbers all of a sudden. And similarly people won't all of a sudden get rid of their general computing Android tablets either, because they were bought because they were cheap relative to Apple's devices.

I too think it'll change, but my point was that Android isn't "dead in the water" now. I think we'll see big change once larger corporations start adopting Windows 8.x. Then people will be trying the new OS whether they like it or not, and IT people will start integrating other devices that represent the path of least resistance, i.e. RT tablets and Win phones.

So on second thought it was a tough choice for Steinberg in deciding which OS to focus on. iOS which is used a lot in media industries? Android which has the biggest market share? Windows which will be a strong contender in the future? I'd say Windows would have been the least smart choice simply because the market isn't there yet, and there's still time to port over to it. Will they? Who knows.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby JMCecil » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:16 am

papi61 wrote:
Lydiot wrote:It's the biggest portable OS out there.


Yes, but I'm pretty sure that things are going to change soon. Remember what we wanted when the iPad was introduced: laptop power in a smaller, lighter, more portable form factor. Since at that time it was an impossible feat, basically Apple went about a decade in the past with much inferior computing power and put in a PHONE operating system. Android was developed with the same concept in mind. Which means that none of these OS's can develop much more than they've already done. Now that 8-inch Win 8.1 tablets with Bay Trail are finally available (end of this month), the old dream of having a REAL computer in one hand is finally coming true and I'm pretty sure that sooner or later people will realize how primitive iOS and Android are compared to a fully-functional OS like Windows. Heck, even simple file management on iOS and Android is a hassle. Again, because they are PHONE operating systems and they were never meant to do anything harder than social media, video playing, e-book reading, email etc.

A Bay Trail tablet can actually run Cubase 7. What other tablet can do that? (I mean aside from i5 tablets, of course, but those will cost substantially more.)

Yeah, Balmer had a little help sacking himself because he was so on target with the windows mobile strategy. You keep waiting for that Windows Surface revolution. Oh and the dev community is sure buying in .. yep ... they love Surface + Modern ... uh well maybe not.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby TheNavigator » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:25 pm

Coming soon? :-)

So, when? :)
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby jimzepellin » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:39 pm

+1 for when? Why this wasn't a parallel build of all platforms is beyond me. In what magical business world does a company ignore the platform or possible customer base that is in the majority. I must applaud Apples marketing as it must be the best marketing ever. I'd say they went 110% and that is actually impossible even though personal trainers and executive team builder tell you otherwise. Apple have managed it.
I think it will probably be released in the future as it's very hard to make things happen in the past. That's just a guess though. Though if we got Apples marketing team on it , they would be able to manage 110% into the future. This would mean that we would shoot past the future and end up at the beginning , which will allow us to come hammering up our own backsides and deliver an android and windows version. Now wouldn't that be nice.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby rancho_molino » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:58 pm

Steinberg! Give us done kind of update on this, please!
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby Scrummy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:11 am

+1 on an update...
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby papi61 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:40 pm

Lydiot wrote: Not that people won't buy Win tablets, they will, but not in huge numbers all of a sudden.


I've always seen musicians as a practical bunch. Using a tablet instead of a laptop is a "practical" thing: when you're gigging, you want to get rid of as much excess baggage as you can. But until now, it came at a price: you couldn't use your regular DAW, you had to settle for something that wasn't even as good as the "lite" version. So, it was Cubasis instead of Cubase and GarageBand instead of Logic. HUGE difference. Apple is now making a fuss about the latest GB being able to use up to a whopping 32 tracks... Wow. Are we back to 1985? :roll:

So, the next "practical" thing would be to have a tablet that's just as small, light and ultraportable, but that can actually run the SAME DAW you use on your desktop/laptop every day in your studio. With the sole exception of Windows RT tablets (I've never understood why people would want to buy a "Windows lite" device...), every Win 8.1 tablet can do that, and IMHO it won't be long before musicians start to realize that.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby TheNavigator » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:45 pm

I have a song here which uses 39 tracks alone for drums and percussion. :D
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby papi61 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:48 pm

TheNavigator wrote:I have a song here which uses 39 tracks alone for drums and percussion. :D


Show off!! :lol:
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby TheNavigator » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:51 pm

It's just a lazy way to work, in my opinion.

Routed everything out from BFD 3, Geist and Battery, so I can handle all the volumes and fx (automation...) from the mix console.

Thats what the mix console is for, if you ask me. I would prefer plugins to route everything to separate outputs right from the start anyway. I'm a lazy guy.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby jimzepellin » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:54 pm

papi61 wrote:
Lydiot wrote:So, the next "practical" thing would be to have a tablet that's just as small, light and ultraportable, but that can actually run the SAME DAW you use on your desktop/laptop every day in your studio. With the sole exception of Windows RT tablets (I've never understood why people would want to buy a "Windows lite" devices...), every Win 8.1 tablet can do that, and IMHO it won't be long before musicians start to realize that.


I think you might be overestimating the amount of people that are going top dump their Desktops, laptops and platform to go use a tablet. Not everyone is on the move with their music stuff either. Even a laptop has a larger screen to work with. Storage? connectivity? etc etc etc. If you already have a bunch of gear that you have to move then a laptop is not that much of a hassle really and it has many advantages.
Android has a long way to go before it decides Microsoft are the bees knees and turns it's toes up.

I agree with you to the extent that there is great potential there and the points you make are relevant. I just don't think it's going to be that fast or easy a decision for the majority of folk.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby Benutzername » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:09 pm

papi61 wrote:
Lydiot wrote:So, the next "practical" thing would be to have a tablet that's just as small, light and ultraportable, but that can actually run the SAME DAW you use on your desktop/laptop every day in your studio.


And this DAW will look and feel like Cubasis or GarageBand or it won't work. You technically might be able to run a regular DAW on a tablet but it will be absolutely unuseable.

Simple experiment: Cut a piece of paper (A4 or letter) in half and tape it to your screen. Now resize the main window of your DAW until it's exactly the size of the paper. Remove the paper and look at how a regular DAW will look like on a 10" tablet.

But I hear you: "Modern tablets have a higher resolution than that!". OK, another experiment. Take a screenshot of the maximized DAW window and open it in the picture viewer of your choice. Now adjust the zoom level until the image fits the size of the paper from the first experiment. Much better: You will see a lot more from the arrangement and more plugins but now try to image how you would edit this song with your fingers and note how huge even the tip of your pinkie is compared to the buttons and knobs on the screen.

I've no doubt that the DAW makers will improve tablet usability but this will always be a compromise. There is no way around it: Tablets need tablet DAWs.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby TheNavigator » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:16 pm

This is Karl Ranseier on your profile picture, right? ;-)

I think that DAWs have to be reconsidered anyway. While the "bandmachine" idea surely can act as a starting point for non linear work (like we do with Cubase et al today), I think the future will bring more "hands on" concepts, like "combining partial patterns into songs", would work like this:

1. You record 4 measures of acoustic guitar strumming
2. Actually you record 6 measures, but treat it like 4
3. You can combine 3x6 measures into 12 (not 18) and all that

And you will be able to work on tracks in those patterns, etc...
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby TheNavigator » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:24 pm

But, back to topic:

Come on, Steinberg, I want to give you MOAR money!!
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby Benutzername » Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:19 pm

TheNavigator wrote:This is Karl Ranseier on your profile picture, right? ;-)


Karl Ranseier is dead... :cry:
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby papi61 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:16 am

Benutzername wrote: There is no way around it: Tablets need tablet DAWs.


Lots of people swear by their MBA 11" being an excellent ultraportable solution. And you think that a Surface Pro 2 or equivalent Windows 8.1 tablet wouldn't cut it? Why? It's the same screen size, only that the Windows tablets come with a higher resolution (i.e. more display real estate), a touch screen and a digitizer, which make handling tiny details a lot easier. Not to mention that, for example, Sonar is already multi-touch friendly and I'm sure other DAW's will soon follow.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby Benutzername » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:34 am

papi61 wrote:
Benutzername wrote: There is no way around it: Tablets need tablet DAWs.


Lots of people swear by their MBA 11" being an excellent ultraportable solution. And you think that a Surface Pro 2 or equivalent Windows 8.1 tablet wouldn't cut it? Why?


Because you don't have to operate your 11" MBA with a 2.5" by 0.5" sized mouse cursor (your finger). If you move your tiny tiny mouse cursor on a high resolution screen and use a lot of keyboard shortcuts then it might work. If you start to attach mouse and keyboard to a tablet then you don't need a tablet.

I'm not saying that a regular Windows 8 is useless. I'm just saying that some people here overestimate the need for such a tablet by far.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby TheNavigator » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:23 pm

More than 10 long months
not what "soon" means is, for sure
'nuff said, make it run!
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby papi61 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:21 am

Benutzername wrote:
papi61 wrote:
Benutzername wrote: There is no way around it: Tablets need tablet DAWs.


Lots of people swear by their MBA 11" being an excellent ultraportable solution. And you think that a Surface Pro 2 or equivalent Windows 8.1 tablet wouldn't cut it? Why?


Because you don't have to operate your 11" MBA with a 2.5" by 0.5" sized mouse cursor (your finger).


What you're saying makes absolutely no sense. Don't use your finger to move the cursor on your MBA on a MUCH SMALLER pad than the screen? And BTW, all Windows tablets have USB ports (unlike iPads), so if you want to use a mouse, you can do that too.

[I'm not saying that a regular Windows 8 is useless.


I think that's precisely what you're hinting. If OSX tablets were available, you'd probably consider them the best thing since sliced bread.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby Benutzername » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:04 pm

I'm an absolute Apple hater so you're plain wrong. :) But don't you think there is a reason why Apple has not released an OSX tablet yet?

If you start to attach mice and keyboards to a tablet then you don't have a tablet anymore, you have a notebook.

The finger argument was a simple test how it will look like if you want to edit 1/8" sized icons and buttons with a 2.5" sized mouse cursor. And the finger will be your mouse cursor if you start an antique DAW on a modern tablet. Again: If you use mouse and keyboard anyway for editing then then why buy a tablet?

You can buy windows tablets since the 90s (even cheap ones) and run normal desktop applications on them (even DAWs). Absolutely no problem. You don't have to wait for the surface. But nobody ever wanted these devices because desktop applications on touch screens just don't work and never did. The new surface may have longer battery life and more horse power but the usability of the desktop side is no different to the first tablets from 1995.

I'm not talking about Metro/RT. If we see DAW for the tiled area of windows then it will of course look and feel like.Cubasis or GarageBand. But I'll doubt that Steinberg or any other manufacturer will ever write such a software. The latency for RT apps is much worse than even the first Android phones and MIDI is officially marked as "depreciated technology, supported in version: never" in MS's developer area and there is not a single hint that this might change in the future.
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby papi61 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:52 pm

Benutzername wrote:don't you think there is a reason why Apple has not released an OSX tablet yet?


Because Apple doesn't have a large R&D department like Microsoft, Google, Intel etc. and making something like Windows 8 would have been too lengthy, complicated and expensive for them. Apple is an image company that has sheep-like followers (including the tech media as a whole), so they tried the simplest, quickest and least expensive solution (adapting a phone OS to a tablet) and it worked. Look, Apple could make an iBookend that does absolutely nothing, but as long as it has a shiny apple logo etched into it, some people would still buy it for $200.

If you start to attach mice and keyboards to a tablet then you don't have a tablet anymore, you have a notebook.


That was just an example. If people can get by with the tiny touchpad of the MBA, they would be MUCH more comfortable with a 10" screen.

The finger argument was a simple test how it will look like if you want to edit 1/8" sized icons and buttons with a 2.5" sized mouse cursor.


First of all, most Windows tablets come with digitizers, especially the new Bay Trail models. And secondly, if the tiny touchpad of the MBA is sufficient to handle a DAW, then why would you consider the MUCH larger area of a touch screen insufficient? It makes no sense whatsoever. Heck, the touchpad of EVERY laptop ever made is still much smaller than a 10"" screen. So, that's why I hypothesized that behind what you say there is something irrational, like an irrational hatred for anything Microsoft (which is typical of Apple fanboys, you can't blame me for making the easiest assumption.)
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby G-string » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:51 pm

YAWN YAWN YAWN only another two months before it's a year for this COMING SOON apps . Win 8 tablets are taking hold now
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby TheNavigator » Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:57 pm

A certain duke comes to mind. :lol:
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Mobile cutlery: iPad Air 2, Cubasis (always the latest version), Audio Bus 2, Focusrite iTrack Dock, one or the other cheap USB MIDI keyboards

Favorite synthesizers: u-he DIVA, Padshop Pro, Halion 5

"Storms can't kill the faith in rainbows"
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby G-string » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:49 pm

looks like the 14th is the day then
I7 3770k - win7 64 bit - C7.5.20 - WL8e - Halion 5 - Padshop pro - Cmc - Midex 8 - Uad - Rme FF/ADi8pro - Automap 4.7.3 b
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Re: Android version - coming soon!

Postby TheNavigator » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:52 pm

G-string wrote:looks like the 14th is the day then


I don't think so.

The picture is of an i*.* device.
Chris, The Navigator... Keyboards, songwriting, CTO and aspiring coproducer for Visions of Atlantis.

PC watercooling and overclocking afficionado.

Main device: Cubase 7.5 64 bit on Windows 8.1 (4930k @ 4.1 GHz, 32 GB of RAM, 3 SSDs), Halion 5, Padshop Pro, RME Hammerfall DSP + Multiface, Avid Artist Control V2, Roland A88, AKG K701 headphones, lots of other nice stuff
Mobile cutlery: iPad Air 2, Cubasis (always the latest version), Audio Bus 2, Focusrite iTrack Dock, one or the other cheap USB MIDI keyboards

Favorite synthesizers: u-he DIVA, Padshop Pro, Halion 5

"Storms can't kill the faith in rainbows"
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