Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby Puma0382 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:28 pm

henceforth wrote:
The old (v6) cursor was a single black line I believe.

Yes - and even that was far, far better than what we have now; which is a horrible, ugly, flickering nonsense. I refuse to believe that SB devs themselves actually think its a better design.

No other modern DAW does/would allow this.

So, I give +1 for single-line cursor (and more options/customisation throughout the UI 'look' - as requested by others, and Paul White)
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby Tp3 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:31 pm

Bredo wrote:The younger ones seems to like the style I refer to as, the "iPad generation graphic design". But who am I to know?.

I share the EXACT same thoughts.

And when I look around me, and read about users... analyzing their ages and preferences... I'm come to the exact same conclusions.
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby Tp3 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:31 pm

EDIT : DUP
Last edited by Tp3 on Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby G-string » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:56 pm

well im sorry to stick a spanner in the works but im 48 and I do like the direction the mixer is heading , as I say , it's not perfect ,there are loads of things to iron out but generally I think it is a good concept .
The flickering cursor is annoying but no show stopper ,actually there are no show stoppers , I believe in the course of c7 the mixer will take great shape ;-)
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby ErikG » Sun Oct 27, 2013 6:34 pm

As for the cursor UI change in windows (the mac cursors have looked like this for a long time) I was told that the graphics code libraries that where used with the old XOR cursor is no longer maintained and simply could not be used any more, otherwise they could not support newer versions of OS'es.
So there was a really important hard reason to change. If it changed into something better or worse is in the eye of the beholder.
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby Puma0382 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:55 pm

ErikG wrote:As for the cursor UI change in windows (the mac cursors have looked like this for a long time) I was told that the graphics code libraries that where used with the old XOR cursor is no longer maintained and simply could not be used any more, otherwise they could not support newer versions of OS'es.
So there was a really important hard reason to change. If it changed into something better or worse is in the eye of the beholder.

Hmm... ok, thanks for the insight Erik; interesting - I'd not known this...

So, I'm presuming then, that you Mac folk are ok with cursor behavior (you've known no different). But, tell me, is it at all ugly and flickering for you, especially when zoomed in a bit..? I see the change as marked between C6.x and C7 over here on Windows...
(just to clearify, you reckon they have taken the Mac code ("..cursors have always looked like this..") and stuffed it into Windows, as their 'solution' to what you describe..?)
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby Stealth » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:16 pm

From reading this thread one might get the impression that its NOT possible to customize the colors and brightness/darkness of Cubase... smh :lol:
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby henceforth » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:14 pm

Puma0382 wrote:
ErikG wrote:As for the cursor UI change in windows (the mac cursors have looked like this for a long time).


But, tell me, is it at all ugly and flickering for you, especially when zoomed in a bit?

i personally like it but i do find it sometimes suffers from re-draw problems, which may or may not be related to the graphics driver.
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby cubic13 » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:52 pm

ErikG wrote:As for the cursor UI change in windows (the mac cursors have looked like this for a long time) I was told that the graphics code libraries that where used with the old XOR cursor is no longer maintained and simply could not be used any more, otherwise they could not support newer versions of OS'es.
So there was a really important hard reason to change. If it changed into something better or worse is in the eye of the beholder.


Few questions, here :
1) Where this information is coming from ? Source/link ?

2) Who is the designer of the 'graphics code libraries' ? Are there Microsoft or third party ones ? And what does the drop of the XOR attribute have to do with the sudden white mask apparition ?

Thanks for any precision. Beside this, if this is really the problem, wouldn't it be better for Steiny to state it clearly and explain the issue, instead of the disdainful silence on the subject despite all the posts/threads about it since its apparition ? :?
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby henceforth » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:07 pm

Erik is probably correct. A lot of stuff must first work on Mac (unix) platforms before it can function on Windows. In fact the entire VST specification is predicated on it by way of C.
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby henceforth » Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:34 pm

Bredo wrote:
cubic13 wrote:, if this is really the problem, wouldn't it be better for Steiny to state it clearly and explain the issue,

This is the biggest issue IMO.

why would an explanation be required, or indeed necessary; in particular if the situation is only temporary.
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby henceforth » Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:52 pm

In terms of programming, as previously pointed out; the libraries have changed and therefor it is only a matter of time before a new one is found.
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby Oedipus Driftpunch » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:05 am

NWP wrote:Having flashbacks of my grandparents complaining about not being able to deal with digital alarm clocks, vcrs, microwave ovens, etc... .

Time marches on. Adapt, overcome or sit by the trailside waiting for the saber-toothed kitty to put you out of your misery.


Yes let's all be sheep and accept whatever's thrown at us even if it's a step backward.
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby mozizo » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:07 am

Oedipus Driftpunch wrote:
NWP wrote:Having flashbacks of my grandparents complaining about not being able to deal with digital alarm clocks, vcrs, microwave ovens, etc... .

Time marches on. Adapt, overcome or sit by the trailside waiting for the saber-toothed kitty to put you out of your misery.


Yes let's all be sheep and accept whatever's thrown at us even if it's a step backward.

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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby SteveInChicago » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:10 am

Can sheep even walk backward? :lol:
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby curteye » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:32 am

SteveInChicago wrote:Can sheep even walk backward? :lol:


Yes! 'Sheepishly'. :)
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby JMCecil » Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:51 am

I'm not 100% sure the theme is too dark. I don't like it, but I won't blame the darkness. It's all about contrast and positioning and structure so that you can find what you are looking for. I find the new mixer to be a morass of blobs of indistinct washes of color. I can't tell which channel goes with which fader. I can't tell which row goes with which column. I really just can't find anything without actively trying to look for it. Even with the faders grouped, I can't easily delineate one channels setting from the next. I have no such problem in C6.5 or prior. I find trying to use the mixer extremely fatiguing and cumbersome. That doesn't even take into account the clickfest, lack of positional/zoom memory, losing plugins behind the mixer, can't use hotkeys unless you click on the mixer, rack configs not working, workspaces not working, linking only partially working for solo/mute/record ... etc ... etc ... etc ... and that's after a year of patches ... wooohooo
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby curteye » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:06 am

JMCecil wrote:I can't tell which channel goes with which fader. I can't tell which row goes with which column.


+100000000000000
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby Elektrobolt » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:32 pm

I am by no means a mixing dude or anywhere near being a recording engineer, so these lines are simply an observation.

So it seems a few of things irritate many with the new mixer, two of them are darkness and disorientation. I've seen this discussed in several places now. So I went and searched for pictures real life mixers, and strangely enough there are a large number of dark faced mixers, and not at all bad to look at, I included a few in this post. I also saw many that "pleased" me more than others and some that directly displeased me. I think what pleasing translates to is an immediate understanding of what I saw. What JMCecil talked about above.

So in looking at them all, a few light ones too, but I concentrated on dark ones (for obvious reasons) and it appears to me that one thing is strikingly missing or rather I think it was supposed to be there by clever illusion (more in the bottom part of the mixer, with the sliders). I am talking about a very distinct separation of channels. The ones of most disinterest to me had very weak "lines" of separation between channels, where they were sort of disorienting, and the ones with lines (and I like many dislike a lot of lines in a UI, but) they immediately "registered".

sound_mixer.jpg
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16262_resized_sound_300.png
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mixer (2).jpg
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Instinctively I also went over to PT11 to take a look at its mixer (click on "Images") and I have to say it is by no means any better, at least not to my eyes. Way too busy. However, again, I am not mixing a whole lot, so these are just my personal opinions.
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby BriHar » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:25 am

More distinct delineation between mixer channels is a definite +1, regardless of colour.
...yes I think it can be easily done, just take everything down to Highway 61.

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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby cubic13 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:52 pm

Elektrobolt wrote:...
Instinctively I also went over to PT11 to take a look at its mixer (click on "Images") and I have to say it is by no means any better, at least not to my eyes. Way too busy. However, again, I am not mixing a whole lot, so these are just my personal opinions.


Sorry to say, but I much prefer the ProTools mixer over the new Cubase one... I don't think it's 'way too busy' by any means and the whole thing is sober ; everything seems streamlined and put at its right place. I especially like the graduations on the meters and channel faders and the sends ones. All this seems more 'professional' in a way...

Never saw ProTools at work, but I guess that its users don't have to deal with key commands behavior problems, clicking fest, strangely cut labels, hidden buttons and gain values, erratic sizing of racks, close to invisible strip separation between faders, etc.

If ProTools is so reputated for mixing tasks, there must be actual reasons and, seeing this, I guess that this UI has something to do in them...
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby Elektrobolt » Thu Oct 31, 2013 4:09 pm

cubic13 wrote:Sorry to say, but

Please don't be sorry, there is absolutely nothing wrong in disagreeing, let's keep a healthy discussion. :)

My comparison of the PT11 mixer was not with C7, but with the mixers I looked at. There is something about them that either of the two soft mixers do not have (yet), but I cannot quite put my finger on it. Channel separation is certainly one issue, though I think the PT11 mixer already is better than C7. So something else...

I am including a current PT11 mixer image here, purely for reference, as well as *the advertised* C7 mixer.
(That way in the future, we can compare with older versions.)


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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby Mauri » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:07 pm

Elektrobolt wrote:
cubic13 wrote:Sorry to say, but

Please don't be sorry, there is absolutely nothing wrong in disagreeing, let's keep a healthy discussion. :)

My comparison of the PT11 mixer was not with C7, but with the mixers I looked at. There is something about them that either of the two soft mixers do not have (yet), but I cannot quite put my finger on it. Channel separation is certainly one issue, though I think the PT11 mixer already is better than C7. So something else...

I am including a current PT11 mixer image here, purely for reference, as well as *the advertised* C7 mixer.
(That way in the future, we can compare with older versions.)

protools11_oview_featuredimage1_Enlarge(mixer).jpg






01_Stellar_mixing_01a_Mix_Console_Meter_zones.png



I much prefer the look of Cubase Mix Console, but I would like to see better channel separation.


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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby Centralmusic » Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:15 pm

Elektrobolt wrote:
cubic13 wrote:Sorry to say, but

Please don't be sorry, there is absolutely nothing wrong in disagreeing, let's keep a healthy discussion. :)

My comparison of the PT11 mixer was not with C7, but with the mixers I looked at. There is something about them that either of the two soft mixers do not have (yet), but I cannot quite put my finger on it. Channel separation is certainly one issue, though I think the PT11 mixer already is better than C7. So something else...

I am including a current PT11 mixer image here, purely for reference, as well as *the advertised* C7 mixer.
(That way in the future, we can compare with older versions.)

protools11_oview_featuredimage1_Enlarge(mixer).jpg

01_Stellar_mixing_01a_Mix_Console_Meter_zones.png


For me, PT´s Mixer is more readable and easier on the eyes - see fonts, colours e.g.
But I prefer Cubendo´s MixConsole - customizable solution, great features, better workflow, better overview...
Absolutely: this is a good step in the right direction!

I really love Nuendo 6.x´s Mixer:

http://rekkerd.org/img/201303/steinberg ... _Mixer.png

:)
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Re: Sound On Sound says it all: Too Dark

Postby cubic13 » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:43 pm

Elektrobolt wrote:
cubic13 wrote:Sorry to say, but
...
My comparison of the PT11 mixer was not with C7, but with the mixers I looked at. There is something about them that either of the two soft mixers do not have (yet), but I cannot quite put my finger on it. Channel separation is certainly one issue, though I think the PT11 mixer already is better than C7. So something else...

I am including a current PT11 mixer image here, purely for reference, as well as *the advertised* C7 mixer.
(That way in the future, we can compare with older versions.)

protools11_oview_featuredimage1_Enlarge(mixer).jpg

01_Stellar_mixing_01a_Mix_Console_Meter_zones.png


So, I misunderstood your post, sorry, and no harm done... ;)

To be honest, there are great ideas in the MixConcole concept, no doubt. But, as more and more usually in the Steiny way of doing, the whole thing seems half-baked, with too much issues left that should have been ironed out at first place. Other examples of this way of doing are the RCE or the ASIO guard : they are not actually working as advertised. We are at a point where 6 updates have already been delivered, this through a 10 months period, and still, the whole MixConsole thing (as other ones) seems clumsy, with a strange and erratic behavior (see my previous post and JMCecil one).

Back to topic : to be honest, I don't think that the overall Cubase UI darkness is the main problem. What is the most irrtating is the removal of efficient UI features without warning, more or less replaced by half-baked ones...
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