Cubase 7 and Bay Trail Windows 8.1 tablets

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Cubase 7 and Bay Trail Windows 8.1 tablets

Postby papi61 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:20 am

OK, I've finally received my Dell Venue 8 Pro 64gb and proceeded with DAW tests. I know there are quite a few people here interested in such ultra-portable solution and this is my report on how such a device works with audio in general and with Cubase 7 in particular.

First, the bad news: the USB 2.0 port (micro USB, requires OTG cable, presumably it's the same with all the 8" W8.1 tablets) doesn't provide sufficient juice to power external drives and audio interfaces (tested with RME Babyface and Focusrite Scarlett.) Yes, there is a solution, but you will lose some "portability" there: you will either have to use powered external drives and interfaces, or you can use a powered USB hub. Since you'd need a hub anyway to hook up an interface and an external drive (you only have ONE USB port), you might as well get a powered one. It's true that this device comes with a microSD slot that can give you an additional 64gb of storage, but I'm not sure these cards are fast enough for audio recording, even the super-duper "X" types. I guess I will have to test that later (I have a 64gb SDXC on order, should get it next week.)

Since I had many licenses I never used, I installed Cubase 7 AI (the free version that comes with Steinberg and Yamaha hardware.) I really didn't want to bother loading the full version (or buying Essential...) and having to cope with the additional hassle of accommodating the dongle. So, that means I couldn't test Cubase's more advanced features. But seriously, you wouldn't be using Vari-Audio or Note-Expression on a tablet. After all, this is a super-portable solution for quickly sketching ideas and recording on the go. I also installed Sonar X3c, because so far it's the only DAW that has been optimized to run on a touch screen, and I just wanted to see how good the experience is.

Cubase loads fine and works fine. Of course this is not an RT app, but a "desktop" application that can hardly take advantage of touch, but you can still pin it on the start screen for quick access. Now FORTUNATELY the V8P (like all 8" Windows tablets so far) doesn't have a super-high resolution (it's 1200x800), which means that albeit tiny, icons and buttons aren't impossible to deal with, unless you have really fat fingers. But even if you do, you can still manage to accurately point, click and drag with the active stylus, which is quite precise and does the job sufficiently well (yes, there are few annoying bugs, especially with the inking, but Dell has promised a software update for next week that will take care of that.) Unfortunately, the stylus is NOT included with the V8P, it's a $35 accessory (rather pricey IMHO, especially considering it's not a top-quality Wacom device.) Don't bother trying with other active stylii, because they won't work (I read that on the V8P forum.) Sure, a capacitive stylus would work (the kind you can buy for $2 on EBay), but it wouldn't provide a better experience than your index finger.

Performance is quite acceptable. Of course I did not try to push this system by exercising ridiculous CPU demands, I just wanted to see how it would perform in a typical on-the-go "hotel room" session, where the system would have to handle maybe a dozen instrument tracks and a couple of audio tracks. And everything went fairly smooth. So, I believe Steinberg should definitely start working on a touch interface (assuming they haven't already done that), because this type of device will definitely become popular.

And here lastly a word on Sonar X3. Man, that was really FUN!!! Despite the tiny screen, pinching to zoom tracks in and out was more than doable and overall the experience was a hundred times better than Cubase's. Because the X3 interface is also scalable, I found no need to use the stylus at all, everything worked pretty well with my fingers alone.

To sum it up, if you want the "ultimate" no-compromise tablet DAW experience, definitely get a Surface Pro 2 or equivalent device with W8.1/64 and 8gb of RAM. Dell also has a Venue 11 Pro with either i3 or i5 CPU, which still costs a couple of hundreds less than a similarly-configured SP2, but consider that the latter comes with a Wacom stylus that's MUCH MUCH better than what Dell gives you. If you only use it as a pointing device, however, there will be virtually no difference. Bay Trail tablets provide a more limited experience, which is still acceptable within the parameters of an on-the-go session and way way better than what an iPad or Android tablet can offer. Particularly, the 8" tablets provide an unmatched level of portability. After the "briefcase studio", now we have officially entered the "coat pocket studio" era.

If you have questions on this setup, feel free to ask.
Desktop: i7 3770k, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX770 + GT640-DCSL fanless, 3 monitors (30" 2560x1600 + 2x 27" 1920x1080), 256 GB SSD (OS), 2 TB SATA III (audio), 3 TB SATA III (sample libraries), 3x 3 TB USB 3.0 (backup/archives), RME UFX, Win 8.1 Pro x64, Cubase 7.5, Sonar X3, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5.

Slaves: 2x i7 2700k, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, 3 TB SATA III, Win 8.1 Pro x64, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5.

Laptop: 17" HP EliteBook 8770w (i7 3820QM 2.7 Ghz/3.7 Ghz max OC, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, 1 TB SATA III), RME Babyface, Win 7 Pro x64, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, Cubase 7.5, Sonar X3.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Bay Trail Windows 8.1 tablets

Postby SteveInChicago » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:49 am

Great write up!
Cubase 7.5.30 | Mac 10.8.5 | i7-3770k Gigabyte Z77-UD5H | 16gb | TC Konnekt24D
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Re: Cubase 7 and Bay Trail Windows 8.1 tablets

Postby Norbury Brook » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:26 am

Thanks Papi61, it's great that the windows 8 tablet world might gather some ground against the whole iPad ruling the music world scenario we have at the moment.




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Re: Cubase 7 and Bay Trail Windows 8.1 tablets

Postby jxm » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:22 pm

Many thanks for taking the time to document your experiences.

I have a venue 11 pro on order and was wondering about your results using the 64gb SDXC.
Would a 40mbs card work well with the entire project on the card ?

Cubase , if you are listening : Please find a dongle-less solution so we can use Cubase 7 on these things in a reasonable way. I have Sonar X2 which is collecting dust since moving to C7, but I may need to upgrade to X3c for this bay trail environment.

John
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Re: Cubase 7 and Bay Trail Windows 8.1 tablets

Postby papi61 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:02 am

jxm wrote:Would a 40mbs card work well with the entire project on the card ?


I finally got the card this morning and tested it right away. Don't know if it's the fastest microSDXC on the market short of the "extreme" type, but the specs seemed pretty good (max read 50MB/s, max write 35MB/s.) Let's say that it averages out at 25MB/s, which is similar in performance to a typical USB 2.0 drive (if you have 10-15+ audio tracks, forget about it...) and about twice as fast as a conventional SD card.

My test project had 18 instrument tracks (with seven Kontakt instances) and two stereo audio tracks. It worked without problems. Since this is as far as I'm going to push this little "on-the-go" system, I'm not going to try cramming more and more tracks until it chokes. This is really good news for me, because I will not need to carry along any external drives. Unfortunately, I will still need to bring a powered USB hub with me, since the V8P will not power my Babyface or my keyboard controller.

If you need a faster card, you can buy the SanDisk Extreme Pro 64 GB SDXC (for a whopping $115), which is rated at 95MB/s. Maybe with that you'd be able to record 7-8 or more stereo audio tracks.
Desktop: i7 3770k, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX770 + GT640-DCSL fanless, 3 monitors (30" 2560x1600 + 2x 27" 1920x1080), 256 GB SSD (OS), 2 TB SATA III (audio), 3 TB SATA III (sample libraries), 3x 3 TB USB 3.0 (backup/archives), RME UFX, Win 8.1 Pro x64, Cubase 7.5, Sonar X3, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5.

Slaves: 2x i7 2700k, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, 3 TB SATA III, Win 8.1 Pro x64, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5.

Laptop: 17" HP EliteBook 8770w (i7 3820QM 2.7 Ghz/3.7 Ghz max OC, 16 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD, 1 TB SATA III), RME Babyface, Win 7 Pro x64, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5, Cubase 7.5, Sonar X3.
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Re: Cubase 7 and Bay Trail Windows 8.1 tablets

Postby jxm » Wed Nov 20, 2013 3:18 am

Thanks for that update. I usually have < 10 audio + midi/Kontakt (Drums & Keys) tracks .
I plan to do a small install of only the Kontakt items I need and store the content on the SD card along with the project audio/files. I guess I better start shopping for a fast SD card - thanks again.

John

Computers : I7 3770K Asus MB / 16gb OC to 4.3. Focusrite and Roland audio interfaces. Win 8.1 64bit. Late 2012 iMac / 24GB
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