Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Window

All feature requests and suggestions for upcoming releases of Cubase 7 and Cubase Artist 7 can be posted here.

Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Window

Postby suntower » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:08 am

I've finally given up on the background colour for each track name in the App Window. The lack of contrast between the text (track name) and the colour, makes it impossible to use 90% of the colours. Anything except really dark blues, brown, black, red are impossible to read.

There are only 2 ways around this as I see it (no pun intended)
a. Make the text colour user-selectable. Or perhaps BLACK. This off-white is like the -worst-.

b. Just give up and do what Sonar/PT do: use a single universally readable colour. It's boring, but it's legible. If you look @ MixConsole, the track names are VERY legible. That's an option: have the colour ABOVE the track name in black.

In short, the -concept- is GREAT. But we've gone through like .06 iterations and it's not getting better. It's a -real- drag and ironically, the larger the project the harder it is to see.

---JC
Primary: i7960 16gb RAM, SSD, 3 1TB HD, Win7/64 Ult
Second: Q8400 16gb RAM 3 1TB HD, Win7/64
Laptop: HP Pavilion i5, 8GB RAM 7200RPM, Cubase 7.5, iCPro, WL7,
Vienna Ensemble5, VSL, NI Komplete, EWQLSO, etc. CME UF8, Roland TD-12 VDrums
User avatar
suntower
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:53 am
Location: Seattle/Dublin
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby raino » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:45 pm

Can you post an image to show what you are seeing? I'm using both light and dark colors and they always seem readable. Perhaps not the greatest contrast, but nothing that seems problematic to me (see attached).
Attachments
track colors.JPG
(125.98 KiB) Not downloaded yet
rodger
Cubase7.5.2 Win7 Home premium 64bit, Halion5, BFD3, GPO, Komplete 9
i7 4771 Haswell Processor 3.5GHz, ADK LGA1150, 16GB RAM, RME Fireface 400, 2x UAD-2
User avatar
raino
Member
 
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:41 am
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby suntower » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:13 pm

There's no need. Your example are just the kinds of dark colours that work -OK- (not great.) But try that with -any- of the lighter colours (blues, yellows, greens). What we used to call pastels. Dreadful to read with white type... doubley so with off-white type.

Even if they could just choose one of the better SYSTEM FONTS that are now included in Windows 8 and Mac. About 200% clearer type. The fonts they are using are circa Win XP.
Primary: i7960 16gb RAM, SSD, 3 1TB HD, Win7/64 Ult
Second: Q8400 16gb RAM 3 1TB HD, Win7/64
Laptop: HP Pavilion i5, 8GB RAM 7200RPM, Cubase 7.5, iCPro, WL7,
Vienna Ensemble5, VSL, NI Komplete, EWQLSO, etc. CME UF8, Roland TD-12 VDrums
User avatar
suntower
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:53 am
Location: Seattle/Dublin
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby SteveInChicago » Sun Nov 17, 2013 11:52 pm

Do you have the Colorize Track Controls at full? Why not turn set the slider lower so all colors work with fonts. I have mine at about 20%.
Cubase 7.5.30 | Mac 10.8.5 | i7-3770k Gigabyte Z77-UD5H | 16gb | TC Konnekt24D
User avatar
SteveInChicago
External Moderator
 
Posts: 4802
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:42 pm
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Has thanked: 109 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby suntower » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:00 am

Wanna know when an application is too complicated? Subordinate clauses. When it takes like 5 subordinate clauses in a sentence to identify an object? TOO COMPLICATED.
Wanna know another way to know when an application is too complicated? When you need a SCREENCAP to explain something basic like this.


Look, I dunno about anyone else, but the three tracks I have circled so artistically are ILLEGIBLE. I don't give a *flower* about the events. I'm just talking about the NAME NAME NAME of thing. As it stands, you can -still- only use like 16 colours because the rest are simply unusable for naming. I was hoping against hope to FINALLY have like FIFTY unique colours I could use for various orchestral sections. And since there STILL IS NO TRACK FINDER KEY COMMAND! I need a super-easy, idiot-proof and VISUAL way to find and organise tracks in large projects.

The colours as they are are unusable for track -names- and thus, useless, simply because the NAME is illegible. It's like #BBB and it's fuzzy... just compare with a modern, TTF like Myriad Pro or any of the std fonts in Win 8.

---JC
Attachments
Capture.jpg
(333.39 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Primary: i7960 16gb RAM, SSD, 3 1TB HD, Win7/64 Ult
Second: Q8400 16gb RAM 3 1TB HD, Win7/64
Laptop: HP Pavilion i5, 8GB RAM 7200RPM, Cubase 7.5, iCPro, WL7,
Vienna Ensemble5, VSL, NI Komplete, EWQLSO, etc. CME UF8, Roland TD-12 VDrums
User avatar
suntower
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:53 am
Location: Seattle/Dublin
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby SteveInChicago » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:15 am

I don't understand why you keep using Cubase.
Cubase 7.5.30 | Mac 10.8.5 | i7-3770k Gigabyte Z77-UD5H | 16gb | TC Konnekt24D
User avatar
SteveInChicago
External Moderator
 
Posts: 4802
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:42 pm
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Has thanked: 109 times
Been thanked: 294 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby JMCecil » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:25 am

Although I normally agree with a lot of suntowers complaints, I'm not completely in agreement here. The colors are extremely flexible now. The only problem I have is the dropdown color palette interface for editing the colors is really wonky and primitive. It sure would be nice if it worked out in the open so you could adjust things and apply the changes while still having the dialog open so you can see what you are doing. But, other than that, I've got very legible results I can live with. At least they work for me. I know everyone has different vision challenges.

Image
cpu:i7 980x - RAM:24gb - OS:Win8.1x64 - Interfaces:Lynx Aurora, Komplete Audio 6 - MIDI:Midisport 4x4, Quadra Thru
Steiny Suff: CMC:FD,CH,TP,QC,PD | Wavelab 8 |Cubase 6.5/7.5| H5, HS2, HSO, Padshop Pro
User avatar
JMCecil
Grand Senior Member
 
Posts: 3858
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:03 pm
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 169 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby raino » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:45 am

I agree, the colors you have circled are unreadable with the white unselected-track font. I just counted and I use 34 different colors (all I need and then a few extras just in case), and all of them are legible with plenty of blues, yellows and greens in the mix. Perhaps I'm not sufficiently pastel inclined, but I just picked colors that would have ok contrast against both black and white - seemed pretty easy to find them when I set up my color scheme.

Maybe you should just pick different colors, shades or saturation for the ones that don't work? After all there literately are millions of combinations. I bet you can find 50. And as Steve pointed out if you lower the Colorize Track control it makes it easier to read the font but you still get the full strength color on the left portion of the track.
rodger
Cubase7.5.2 Win7 Home premium 64bit, Halion5, BFD3, GPO, Komplete 9
i7 4771 Haswell Processor 3.5GHz, ADK LGA1150, 16GB RAM, RME Fireface 400, 2x UAD-2
User avatar
raino
Member
 
Posts: 713
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:41 am
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby suntower » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:52 am

Yes, if you choose DARK colours, you'll be happy with the track name. Unfortunately, that then makes the track -events- harder to suss out and I use that a LOT, LOT, LOT to get a visual sense of where notes are relative to one another on tracks.

Where else is this reverse text used in Cubase? Not too many places. Note that it's NOT used in MixConsole. So at the very least, Cubase could use the same motif as MixConsole.

OR... just give users a choice of text colour OR use a hard white #FFF or a hard black. Using off-white limits the range of colours by 50%.

I'm not stuck on 'pastels'. HOWEVER they -do- make the dividers (both horizontal and vertical) easier to see (and thus grab).

Why not simply re-choose all my colours? The colour library is so clunky... How do I know what will happen if I re-colour 'Colour 7'? I don't I have NO idea what will be affected in the CPR. And since I can't re-do the colour lib from the App Window, it's a tedious process.

Plus: I've got YEARS of CPRs I reference every day. (Which is the reason I stick with Cubase, Steve). Perhaps unlike y'all, I routinely work on material from 2 days ago and 2 -years- ago. Trying to 'standardise' is an ongoing battle. What matters MOST to me is being able to open old projects and -know- they'll work. And developing a work flow where I'm not re-learning everything every time I open a project.

What ruins MOST of my ruined music days are... opening a CPR from 3 years ago to drag an idea into the present and finding SOME roadblock. A plug-in barfs. OR I could've used different colours or different =something= back then and it takes me 2hrs to get back into 'now'. And by then? My fabulous new idea has flown away.

It's always a consideration: start using a new DAW and fight -that- battle OR just try to convince SB to spend less than a DAY of programming time to fix the 5-6 items on my list that are 90% of the time-wasters. Hard to read text is one of them, believe it or not. It's -maddening that these little things are SO annoying, easy to fix and.... either don't get addressed or get addressed in a 'unique' way.

I'll shut up with one thought: see this forum? Nice isn't it? Very easy to read. Why? A PROFESSIONAL designer used some standard rules of TYPOGRAPHY to make it so. It's nothing special. It just -works- for reading and typing. Black interfaces with lots and lots of icons and reverse text are FABULOUS for Halo and Duke Nukem. TERRIBLE for getting work done. All Cubase needs to do is copy Adobe or Microsoft or Apple's design guide. Nice n' easy to read.

---JC
Primary: i7960 16gb RAM, SSD, 3 1TB HD, Win7/64 Ult
Second: Q8400 16gb RAM 3 1TB HD, Win7/64
Laptop: HP Pavilion i5, 8GB RAM 7200RPM, Cubase 7.5, iCPro, WL7,
Vienna Ensemble5, VSL, NI Komplete, EWQLSO, etc. CME UF8, Roland TD-12 VDrums
User avatar
suntower
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:53 am
Location: Seattle/Dublin
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby mpayne0 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:54 pm

Clearly Steinberg needs a little respect for something called typography, graphic and navigational design.

The further you get away from simple console and tracker functionality, the more this becomes a multilayered, multitasking, ever growing all-in-one Adoce CS Everything style DAW, you NEED to incorporate designers from other trades that have been designing multilayered, multitasking, efficient and ergonomic for decades.

That said, I have a feeling that the arrangement page is going to follow suit of mix console, it's just next in line. We only have 50% of the redesigned Cubase 7 right now. It certainly feels silly working with what seems like 2 separate generations of Cubase stuck in C7.
mpayne0
Member
 
Posts: 610
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:07 pm
Location: Brooklyn
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 62 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby suntower » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:23 pm

Exactly. What I find curious is that they used a FAR better type for the Inspector plug-in (the same true white reverse and clearer font) as in MixConsole... but never applied it to the Track Name... which is -key-. The 'pastel' track colours I like make it -much- easier to see the details of events. The dark colours everyone else seems to use make reading the track name easier, but make the events a PAIN. Rather than tweak all the 'modulation' effects and gradients? Just give the track names a simple BLACK background. Problem solved!

It's a great innovation... having the colours... but it also shows how one can make things MUCH worse if you innovate without respecting basic rules of design and consistency. It feels like giving someone a synthesiser but then, just for fun, making -some- knobs operate Neve style (in reverse) while others use Arp sliders.

It matters to -me- because I have vision and hand issues and the recent 'innovations' make it increasingly difficult to operate. I never used to grouse about it before, but after 13-14 years, I've become somewhat more activist---software in general needs to follow accessibility rules, if for no other reason than it makes it easier for -everyone-.

Here's the thing: When they get this sorted, -everyone- will work noticeably faster, but virtually no one but me, will say 'Hallelujah'. Instead, everyone will focus on the brand new 'Rhythm Master 5000!' that no one will actually make anything useful with. I complain so loudly because the community seems to want a whole lot of crap. These little details, which -do- matter, rarely get the attention they deserve. My proof is that we've had .06 swings of the bat and IMHO it's not -significantly- better than .0. Different. Not better.

---JC


mpayne0 wrote:Clearly Steinberg needs a little respect for something called typography, graphic and navigational design.

The further you get away from simple console and tracker functionality, the more this becomes a multilayered, multitasking, ever growing all-in-one Adoce CS Everything style DAW, you NEED to incorporate designers from other trades that have been designing multilayered, multitasking, efficient and ergonomic for decades.

That said, I have a feeling that the arrangement page is going to follow suit of mix console, it's just next in line. We only have 50% of the redesigned Cubase 7 right now. It certainly feels silly working with what seems like 2 separate generations of Cubase stuck in C7.
Primary: i7960 16gb RAM, SSD, 3 1TB HD, Win7/64 Ult
Second: Q8400 16gb RAM 3 1TB HD, Win7/64
Laptop: HP Pavilion i5, 8GB RAM 7200RPM, Cubase 7.5, iCPro, WL7,
Vienna Ensemble5, VSL, NI Komplete, EWQLSO, etc. CME UF8, Roland TD-12 VDrums
User avatar
suntower
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:53 am
Location: Seattle/Dublin
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 67 times

Re: Abandon Track Colouring OR Text Colour Option In App Win

Postby suntower » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:34 pm

This is an example of something that would work well... and take about an hour to implement.

I think the only downside is that it would create the impression that it was an edit-in-place field, rather than read-only, but I'd bear that small inconsistency.

Why I act so snippy is that it doesn't take Norman Rockwell to get this. You just have to -value- usability and it happens all by itself.

---JC
Attachments
Capture-Modest.jpg
(319.6 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Primary: i7960 16gb RAM, SSD, 3 1TB HD, Win7/64 Ult
Second: Q8400 16gb RAM 3 1TB HD, Win7/64
Laptop: HP Pavilion i5, 8GB RAM 7200RPM, Cubase 7.5, iCPro, WL7,
Vienna Ensemble5, VSL, NI Komplete, EWQLSO, etc. CME UF8, Roland TD-12 VDrums
User avatar
suntower
Senior Member
 
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:53 am
Location: Seattle/Dublin
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 67 times


Return to Feature Requests and Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest