If it was your money?

I am no expert on accoustic treatment, but I doubt wallpaper does much for your sound. If it absorbs anything it’ll be high frequencies only and not by much.

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What about wall-ceiling traps ???

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Sorry about my above post: It’s too urgent…I was just excited about the new idea: wall/ceiling bass traps…
is it a forgotten space ?

…Apart from that, thanks to the forum for education…

It’s actually a bonus that there is more to learn…

newbie, eh ?


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No worries, at least you’ve got the fire.

Does your space happen to be carpeted? Beacuse if it’s not I can guarantee you are going to get some echo echo echo…so think about that too too too too too lol.

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Yeaaaaaah Man, lol…hey?..are we at the Grand canyon? Hello?..yes, and a very hard carpet at that
—but lots of litter on it.

The craftsman who did the ceiling, however, did those curlicues with the plaster—it nothing, but
what can you do about the ceiling?..i’m willing to attack that huge surface—but what would stick ?
…seriously, isn’t the ceiling the worst reflector ?



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hey man, 7.5 just came out…

Clouds on “allthread”. Easy DIY if you can source 703 ridgid fiberglass.

Gotta make a sound

eh ?

High ceilings are good! Carpets generally are not!
First you have to set out your goals. Soundproofing (preferably referred to as isolation) is extremely expensive and requires great deals of Mass and airtight sealing, and is thus usually out of the question for most except professionals with large budgets.

Most require only room treatment, as for many, the room in question is simply being adapted and very often is also a bedroom, rather than being built for purpose.
Decide too what your purpose is, the requirements for a recording studio are much different than a control room or mixing studio. For many of us we need to do all of the above in a single room - a so called Project Studio - in which case you may run accross the term “live end dead end” among others.

The answer to your question regarding paper is no - similarly forget any notions you may have heard regarding egg cartons!

There are numerous types of treatment from absorbers through traps and resonaters to diffusors. The absorber treatment is usually the most common. Being the cheapest and easiest to build, they are ideal for those on a restricted budget. Absorber panels when hung horizontally from the coeling are called clouds. The diffusor category should only be considered if you have a large space at your disposal.

First thing to do is make a ground plan of the room with accurate measurements, and then use one of the many room mode calculators to give you an idea of the frequencies that are going to be problematic and where. The plan may also help in working out reflection vectors.

Next decide upon orientation. Usually you’ll want the audio firing down the length of the room as opposed to across the width. Decide upon your Listening position and test this position with your ears or using a room profiling software (I recommend REW as it’s very effective, and FREE Optoma | Home Theater Forum and Systems)
and then consider the best position for your treatments.

For information and examples etc. visit John L. Sayers Forum John Sayers' Recording Studio Design Forum • Index page and also Gearslutz http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/, also check out the articles on http://realtraps.com/ and http://gikacoustics.com/.

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Hello BriHar

Thanks for more good news—are we saying not to treat the ceiling ? Yes, this ceiling is high–it would please
me to look up and say " You’re doing your job "…without clouds

You got me: I was going to mention egg cartons next !!!

Room sound is a topic i hadn’t considered…but, thanks to a poster early in this thread, the topic is now: What
can i do with the small cubicle i live in ?..a good challenge

Your post had a funny aspect:

"…Most require only room treatment, as for many, the room in question is simply being adapted and very often is also a bedroom, rather than being built for purpose. Decide too what your purpose is, the requirements for a recording studio are much different than a control room or mixing studio. For many of us we need to do all of the above in a single room - a so called Project Studio - in which case you may run across the term “live end dead end” among others. "

Is a bedroom not built for a purpose ??? Mine is a home, eh ??? My indoor life is all in here…I do everything
in it…It’s small—Maybe that is a bonus…i can’t say there is any inherent echo at all…but then, when
i sing, i must admit, i know ( eyes closed ) where i am…one just has to be sonically observant—no doubt an
acquired skill i’ll be acquiring more of…yeah, all purpose bedroom, eh ?

Thanks again for the wisdom BriHar—the high ceiling is ok right ?

Now it’s time to check out those links you cited…

jb+



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Yes of course a bedroom is built for the purpose of being a bedroom. My point was that most nonprofessional musicians, engineers, producers etc. do not or cannot afford the luxury of having a room specifically designed and treated for acoustics, therefore have to make do with what they have.

A high ceiling as I mentioned is usually good, and if you have a carpeted floor, then a reflective i.e. untreated ceiling may be ok - at least for a recording point of view - a mixing area may still want clouds. Typically a (recording) studio will have a treated ceiling and a reflective floor simply because the distance between your ears and the floor is a reference constant for your brain, whereas ceilings can vary in height. Check out some of the resources I mentioned if you want to get deeper into this.
Only by acoustically testing the room can you be sure of it’s qualities.
Try this simple experiment. Generate (Cubase signal generator is ok) a single sine frequency (say something between 150Hz - 500 Hz) and send it preferably to a single loudspeaker in the room. Now walk around the room slowly and you will notice there are certain places where the tone sounds louder, and others where it sounds very faint (maybe even seeming to disappear altogether). These are nodes and antinodes resulting from standing waves. Obviously you don’t want these to occur at the place where you choose to listen otherwise you won’t be hearing it correctly and will tend to falsely EQ or otherwise compensate. To flatten the frequency response for at least a given position in the room is the goal of acoustic room design and the reason we apply different treatments. Absorbers help in that - they “absorb” sound energy, Too much however and the room will sound too dead. They also help cut down on relections, so need to be placed strategically.

You say:

Unfortunately a microphone is not possessed of this “skill”. It will be your job to ensure that the recordings, when played back in entirely different environments convey the necessary acoustic (psychoacoustic) information - something called translation. This will be exceedingly difficult if you overcompensate for deficiencies in the recording environment.

This subject is vast, and we’re only touching it lightly here. Again, the resources referred to previously should make this much clearer.

I don’t think spending most of the money on room acoustics and high-end monitors is a good choice for a beginner, especially one on a very limited budget. The Focusrite VRM system is a very acceptable replacement, especially on a temporary basis, that is until funds become available for serious near-fields and room treatment.

On the other hand, I would spend on decent monitoring headphones, like the AT ATH-M50 ($150), which works fantastically with the VRM system ($100.) $250 will get you nothing as far as good monitors and room treatment go.

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Hey folks and friends…

I think we exasperated room policy as it should be —i get it…to a degree sufficient unto the project, but it’s
cost prohibitive to ‘the project’ my audiophile friends…

But the bonus news is i’ll have vocal booth to get a really dry voice sound…recorded for precise effect transformation and maybe more…If you have the driest vocal track—it’s the easiest to tweak, true—don’t want to toy with original tag along echos, boo…

NB: this is a purist doctrine of recording—get the most genuine sound possible…and work with it—that way nobody can accuse you of ’ forgetting-the-source-in-technology ', eh ?

BONUS: Why not make the closet ( along the hall ) into a cosy vocal booth…one that can do acoustic guitar along side any vocal…it’s already quiet in there—burlap and whatever might make it an erased signature…If treated,
my closet will be a place for vocals, anything acoustic…

I realize this treatment only serves recording or tracking—not wide open mixing…but i am enthusiastic to record some interesting vocal signatures/effects…and acoustic guitar the same way too…

So besides getting all the poop out of the closet…How do i built it ?—What materials ? what know-how ? what
principles of sound, etc…?

jb+





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Not a big fan of using closets (or clauset as in claustrophobia (closetrophobia) :wink: )
Might I suggest rather using a local absorber

Also, see this article: RealTraps - Vocal Booths

I think we exasperated room policy as it should be —i get it…to a degree sufficient unto the project, but it’s
cost prohibitive to ‘the project’ my audiophile friends…

You are naive.

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Woodcrest,

Naive about what? Room sonics ? —yes, true…but the point is moot without any money for it—don’t forget
i have to buy every piece of gear, eh ?..so, for the time being i must satisfy with a $1200.00 computer, $400.00
interface, $700.00 digital piano controller, $300.00 condenser mic, $300.00 or so for monitors, and whatever miscellaneous, etc…The forum insists, so do i, on treatment—but it also said JUST GET STARTED…i think this is wise…



.

I still disagree with you and in fact, you are disagreeing with most of the people here that have advised you. You most likely have gear lust and a hole burning in your pocket. Hey, I was once like that too. Nothing wrong with it! :smiley:

The bottom line is you are just getting started and you are new to this. Everything is relative too and the weakest link in the chain brings everything else down. You should really assign a line item in your budget for treatment. Here’s why:

You are an aspiring musician and recordist. Sound needs stable environment to gather in order to listen critically and make good judgment calls. When you are able to listen critically, you will be able to discern more qualities in the sound that you are mixing and recording. In doing so, being a self recorder, the nuances of your performance will be further exposed. This will bring an awareness that should lead you to optimize your voice for instance:
“Wow, I really hear my lisp when I sing that way.”
Then you will alter the shape of your mouth next take and draw closer to what you want becoming a better singer.

Apply the same to mixing. And don’t rule out: the room you mix in can also be the room you record in too.


Well, that’s all I have to say on this. I will always disagree with anyone that has a startup budget that says there isn’t enough money for any treatment. That is BS BS BS considering how inexpensive a duvet is at a goodwill on up to mineral wool or compressed ridged fiberglass and burlap to store bought ready-made panels. Sure, gear is sparkly with ooh ahh… drooooool… but there is so much to gain with a stable environment.

I said and still feel you are naive because you took one single and very important piece of advice and threw it out the window with: it’s cost prohibitive to ‘the project’. The advice was given by many different people, some with many years experience, like myself, all on their own time and right on the mark in my opinion. Now go and buy what you see fitting to the ‘project’ and don’t even think of any acoustic treatment! :mrgreen:

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Everybody

No, No, No…I want good treatment—just need the cash…Woodcrest and everybody are right:
Monitors and room sound are key

…so let’s put it in the budget with all the other expensive things—we all
know my budget by now: $3000.00 to 3,500.00…what percentage for monitors and treatment would
you designate ???

I know what gear lust is…but it’s for rich people…i think of outcome, eh ?
I’ve investigated all components i plan on buying, and yes, i am thrilled, all the while thinking of the produced song…but not to the point of making a mistake with my sponsors gift of money…that is, buying too soon, or irresponsibly…

FLASH BACK: If when you began you had only $3000.00 and you wanted to record your songs…what did you
do to make it ( acoustically and otherwise ) to where you are now…?ASK YOUR IMAGINATION: How did you play out this game…if it was your money ( and of course it was only $3000.00 )…???

Buy me a studio…i’ll pay ya

Thanks again to Woodcrest

john



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to Whomever knows computers and Cubase

This is the best computer i can find in my locale…Question: Is it adequate to run Cubase 7 ???
What about the AMD CPU ?
I’ll store apps like Cubase in the solid state drive and all sound data on the 2TB drive

I think this company has also made a PC tailored to music production—but $4K…boo
In any case it has the only blurb that mentions " music editing "

The important need is that it talk the talk with Cubase 7…is it compatible ???

In our time all powerful PCs are built for gaming first, but alternate purposes are OK i assume…

What do you think about the specs on this as a Music Computer ???


The CYBERPOWERPC Gamer Supreme SLC6200. An Eight-Core Gamer’s Dream Machine.
Enlarge Image

The Gamer Supreme SLC6200 was designed to be powerful enough to take on any task. At the heart of the system lies a liquid cooled AMD FX-8320 Octa-Core processor, with enough performance to handle demanding tasks like music editing and HD video playback. An NVIDIA Geforce GTX660 graphics card has been installed to provide stellar graphics, and 16GB of RAM ensures the SLC6200 can multitask stutter-free. The Gamer Supreme SLC6200 is a monster computing platform ready to take your gaming and productivity to another level.


Specifiations
Brand CYBERPOWERPC
Type Personal Computer
Form Factor Tower
Unit Dimension (DxWxH) 20.1" x 9.2" x 18.2"
Shipping Dimension (DxWxH) 25" x 12.5" x 21.5"
Unit Weight 32 lbs
Shipping Weight 35 lbs
Chassis Thermaltake Level 10GTS Snow White Mid-Tower Gaming Case
Processor AMD FX-8320 Vishera 3.5GHz (Max 4.0GHz)
Processor Socket Socket AM3+
Processor Main Features Turbo Boost Technology
Cache Memory 8MB L3 Cache
Special Features Liquid Cooling
Motherboard AMD 970 Chipset
Expansion Bays Total (Free) 4 ( 3 ) x External - 5.25"
1 ( 1 ) x External - 3.5"
1 ( 0 ) x Internal - 3.5" or 2.5"
4 ( 3 ) x Hot Swap Bay - 3.5" or 2.5"
Expansion Slots Total (Free) 2 ( 1 ) x PCI Express x16
3 ( 3 ) x PCI Express x1
2 ( 2 ) x PCI
4 ( 2 ) x DIMM 240-pin
Interfaces 1 x PS/2 Keyboard
1 x PS/2 Mouse
4 x USB 3.0 (2 front, 2 rear)
8 x USB 2.0 (2 front, 6 rear)
1 x RJ-45 LAN
1 x Front HD Audio
1 x 3 in 1 Audio Jack
RAM 16GB / 32GB (Max)
Storage Controller SATA III
Hard Drive 1 120GB SSD
Hard Drive 2 2TB SATA III 7200RPM
Optical Storage 24X DVD±RW Dual-Layer Super-Multi Drive
Graphics NVIDIA GTX 660 - PCI Express x 16
Video Memory 2GB Dedicated Video Memory
Digital Video Standard 2 x DVI / HDMI / DisplayPort
Power Supply 800 Watt - AC 120/230 V ( 50/60 Hz)
Audio Output 3 in 1 Audio Jacks
Networking Integrated - 10/100/1000 Ethernet
Accessories Included USB Gaming Keyboard & Mouse / Driver Discs / Power Cord
Operating System Provided Microsoft Windows 8.1 64-bit Edition
Manufacturer Warranty 1 Year Limited Warranty & Lifetime Toll Free Tech Support Services
Technical Support E-mail: techteam@cyberpowerpc.com
Technical Support Hotline: (888) 937-5582
Country of Origin USA

Feature Spotlight

Octa-Core Monster: AMD FX-8320 Processor

For the user who needs more cores and high multi-core performance, the AMD FX-8320 Vishera CPU checks all the right boxes. Featuring some of the latest technlogy from AMD, this powerful octa-core processor has a max turbo frequency of 4GHz and comes unlocked for ultimate performance control. System intensive tasks like HD video editing and gaming are no match for this powerful processor. To keep it cool, the SLC6200’s CPU is water cooled for maximum heat dissipation.
Enlarge Image

Graphics Powered by NVIDIA

The Gamer Supreme SLC6200 is ready to game, utilizing the NVIDIA Geforce GTX 660 2GB graphics card. This insane video card has all the performance and technology you need to power through the most graphically demanding games with ease. NVIDIA’s Kepler GPU architecture ensures you’re getting the best perfromance in the most efficient way possible. With the Geforce GTX 660, the latest DirectX 11 games don’t stand a chance.

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16GB of Memory

This system is decked out with 16GB of RAM in a high performance dual channel configuration. This allows the Gamer Supreme SLC6200 to handle memory demanding tasks like multitasking easily and stutter-free.

Optical Drive

The 24x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Super-Multi Drive will allow you to read and burn DVD and CD media.

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The world’s best operating system just got better. The Gamer Supreme SLC6200 comes preinstalled with the latest Windows 8.1 64-Bit operating system. Windows 8.1 is faster and more secure than ever. Windows 8.1 comes loaded with new features and apps but maintains that familiar desktop you love.

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WOULD YOU BUY IT IF IT WAS YOUR MONEY ???




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