So 7.5 is here (almost)

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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby mcp » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:35 pm

edomago wrote:And while you are at it, could you revert to the good-old-clear event display?
The flat one.
Yes, the one that lasted to C5.


Oh yes, please! +1

Cubase' arrange window has become a lot more sluggish since the new event design was introduced in v6 - especially in big projects with many edits. Manual editing used to be much smoother in Cubase 5. Gradients are just annoying and selected events becoming black was also not a very smart idea.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby forthwith » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:42 pm

mcp wrote:Cubase' arrange window has become a lot more sluggish since the new event design was introduced in v6


Try getting a new graphics card.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby distante » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:47 pm

Svenne wrote:Is €49 really that expensive? It's not much more that what Steinberg usually charges for a free(?) grace period update!

Depends in what part of the globe you live! :cry:

Svenne wrote:If any criticism should be made on Steinberg's pricing policies, it that they charge the same for a boxed version as for a download version. Steinberg does save the the cost of manufacturing and shipping when a customer downloads a product. Most marketing vendors, particularly these who want to show that they are environmentally conscious ( a very important marketing argument these days) and not use it as an empty marketing ploy, pass on these savings to their customers.

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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby Rhino » Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:47 pm

edomago wrote:Steinberg used to be a very serious developing house. Back in the 90s, cubase was used by almost every studio in the world.
I thought they were among the last companies to retain a certain degree of professionalism.
Now they talk about "sweet gui", suggest to "play around" with plugins (whatch the magneto II section) and other marketing, childish nonsense.
I work with it, for c. sake, along with lots of other people here. We don' t need fancy graphics (those gradient, blurred, confusing things steinberg calls events), toys to play with and half made features like the mixconsole.
........
We need a reliable system, and C7 is NOT!
Steinberg, just fix the thing, would you??!?!

All in all that sums up the situation nicely.
I guess most of the folks using Cubase for more than occasional "beatz creation" would agree on the priorities you mentioned.
This is not directed against new features per se (the new mixer (minus the zoom failure) has huge potential once it will be fully useable without focus bugs and with working workspace integration), but against premature release of half-baked changes in vital (workflow oriented) areas, taking a year or more to arrive at a solid, reasonably bugfree state.
Experiment all you want on stuff like LoopMash for example, most of us wouldn't care about or even notice the most daring design experiments there. :P
Criticism aside, new game, new luck - 7.5 looks great on paper, I'm open-minded towards the release.
But it will be judged by two criteria - the new stuff itself, and even more important, whether the C7 bugfixing finally brings the program up to the (pretty high) level of professionalism C6.5 undoubtedly had, fortunately still has.
Steinberg, you could do it in the past, please surprise us in a good, no-nonsense way again.
Many of us need a flawless, fast tool, you know - not a lifestyle screensaver.
ymmv,
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby papi61 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:02 pm

Rhino wrote:All in all that sums up the situation nicely.
I guess most of the folks using Cubase for more than occasional "beatz creation" would agree on the priorities you mentioned.


It's like Cubase is the turkey that's never properly done, but instead of finishing to cook it, Steinberg just adds more and more gravy on top of it.

Here's an idea: instead of having multiple Cubase versions based on how much stuff comes included, how about multiple versions targeted at different kinds of customers? You know, like a version for sound engineers, with none of the "beatz" nonsense but great and solid FX and --most importantly-- a super-stable engine, or a version for film composers, which is also super-stable but offers professional scoring features (you know, like Finale and Sibelius), professional video features, professional syncing features etc. And then a version for the "beatzmakers", that can very likely be the most successful but that trades stability for more and more "gravy", like a ton of loops, a gazillion VST's etc.

I'm pretty sure I only use 10% tops of what comes included with Cubase (instruments, FX, loops --which I NEVER use-- etc.), but I'm still paying for it.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby forthwith » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:03 pm

papi61 wrote:instead of having multiple Cubase versions based on how much stuff comes included, how about multiple versions targeted at different kinds of customers? You know, like a version for sound engineers, with none of the "beatz" nonsense but great and solid FX...


VST3 files are fully self-contained, simply delete them if you don't use them otherwise use the core installer instead.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby vic_france » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:05 pm

Prock wrote:Is the as described upgrade to CB 7.5 worth the cost (approx $70 US) of a nice dinner (barely) for me and my wife? For me, YES. Just hope it works without the many bugs of the original CB 7.0. :)

(I'd rather find a bug in my upgraded software, than in my nice dinner :P )
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby papi61 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:06 pm

vic_france wrote:
Prock wrote:Is the as described upgrade to CB 7.5 worth the cost (approx $70 US) of a nice dinner (barely) for me and my wife? For me, YES. Just hope it works without the many bugs of the original CB 7.0. :)

(I'd rather find a bug in my upgraded software, than in my nice dinner :P )


Well, if you find a bug in your dinner, you can sue the restaurant and make quite a bit of money... :lol:
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby papi61 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:09 pm

forthwith wrote:
papi61 wrote:instead of having multiple Cubase versions based on how much stuff comes included, how about multiple versions targeted at different kinds of customers? You know, like a version for sound engineers, with none of the "beatz" nonsense but great and solid FX...


VST3 files are fully self-contained, simply delete them if you don't use them otherwise use the core installer instead.


Of course I delete them, but my point was that I'm still paying for them.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby forthwith » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:15 pm

VST3 files are fully self-contained, simply delete them if you don't use them otherwise use the core installer instead.


papi61 wrote:Of course I delete them, but my point was that I'm still paying for them.


Just because a plugin comes for free, doesn't mean it is developed out of the same budget as the application.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby StefK » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:27 pm

beerbong wrote:Well, if you think about it many new features affect almost all areas of Cubase. Audio, Midi, Chord tracks. Racks and VST Instrument tracks. Would it not be better to have a beta phase just in case? :?:


We do have a beta phase, this is the 7.0.0 upto the 7.0.6 (I will only just concede that 7.0.6 is fit for purpose and IMO considered close to GR (general release)) else, really the others have been release.candidates. [and still .RC on the MAC platform.. I still dare NOT use 7.0.6 on MAC].
We (the registered community) seem to be beta testing for them, for several releases, then the new x.5 release comes along, .. and we all jump on board this merry go round, for yet another spin ... "cue up that promo guy, telling us about the amazing feature set !" roll up, roll up!!

I often wonder (being a software developer myself) what testing/qa'ing really happens at SB dev headquarters?
If the specs+documentation cannot be realised in the software, then, the software is not fit for purpose, and (again IMO) the marketting and documentation that gets published with the ' released software ' should be ammended detailing to consumers that the feature sets are not avaialble.

...I'm tired of shelling out the 49 (or whatever) euro every year, in the hope / belief that this will be the stable release, I keep seeing, all these glossy new iDEVICE apps, and new synths, and tools, and bits and pieces, but
still not seeing a rock solid foundation and framework from SB.

.. Im tried of being an unpaid beta tester for SB, and more tired of their means to keep drawing me out every 12 or so months to pay for yet (potentially) another fresh set of new bugs ..

SB : please review your published doccumentation for 7.0.6. The details re feature set of the product, and ensure that it is functioning rock solid as you(SB) have listed and defined, and sold us, the idea that is how it should be correctly working.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby forthwith » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:34 pm

StefK wrote:If the specs+documentation cannot be realised in the software, then, the software is not fit for purpose, and (again IMO) the marketing and documentation that gets published with the 'released software' should be amended detailing to consumers that the feature sets are not available.


That's a joke, right?

...I'm tired of shelling out the 49 (or whatever) euro every year, in the hope / belief that this will be the stable release, I keep seeing, all these glossy new iDEVICE apps, and new synths, and tools, and bits and pieces, but still not seeing a rock solid foundation and framework from SB.


Maybe you misinterpret the meaning of .5, it is for features not improvements.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby Rhino » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:47 pm

forthwith wrote:Maybe you misinterpret the meaning of .5, it is for features not improvements.

As long as there are still issues left, any software release is about bugfixing first and foremost.
In case there are substantial new features on top of successful and thorough bugfixing, a reasonable fee is justified.
If the new stuff in 7.5 works correctly and nothing else was sacrificed for it, €49 are justified imho.
ymmv,
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby Svenne » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:49 pm

StefK wrote:Please review your published doccumentation for 7.0.6. The details re feature set of the product, and ensure that it is functioning rock solid as you(SB) have listed and defined, and sold us, the idea that is how it should be correctly working.

There is but one way to achieve this. Go into politics. Work to have a law passed, that stipulates that software manufactures are financially responsible for any losses that are the result of their software not working properly.

Then you'll see software as rock solid as the pyramids. ;)
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby jaslan » Sat Nov 30, 2013 2:56 pm

Svenne wrote:
StefK wrote:Please review your published doccumentation for 7.0.6. The details re feature set of the product, and ensure that it is functioning rock solid as you(SB) have listed and defined, and sold us, the idea that is how it should be correctly working.

There is but one way to achieve this. Go into politics. Work to have a law passed, that stipulates that software manufactures are financially responsible for any losses that are the result of their software not working properly.

Then you'll see software as rock solid as the pyramids. ;)

And it will cost five times as much.....
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby TheNavigator » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:11 pm

jaslan wrote:
Svenne wrote:
StefK wrote:Please review your published doccumentation for 7.0.6. The details re feature set of the product, and ensure that it is functioning rock solid as you(SB) have listed and defined, and sold us, the idea that is how it should be correctly working.

There is but one way to achieve this. Go into politics. Work to have a law passed, that stipulates that software manufactures are financially responsible for any losses that are the result of their software not working properly.

Then you'll see software as rock solid as the pyramids. ;)

And it will cost five times as much.....


No. Twenty times. And most software companies will instantly leave business forever.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby JMCecil » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:19 pm

None of the lawyer stuff is even half on target ... All that would happen is that idiot closet producers would try to bring claims and be laughed off the planet ... if they could even afford the time to get laughed at. The real businesses that use software that would actually have a loss that meets the threshold of being worth the time to bring suit, would continue to operate as they do now ... put new software on test machines, move to production very carefully, no loss incurred, no law suits, no change.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby edomago » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:32 pm

Fabio Bartolini wrote:
edomago wrote:For instance, i' ve location-recorded a rock band and i had to rely on reaper due to C7 instability with antelope orion32 (as also stated by antelope support).


Hello edomago,

the problem with the Orion 32 is fixed in 7.5, I've been reporting the incompatibility and followed the evolution of the report. This needed an updated version of a core dll.

QA informed me that they have been able to use the Orion 32 with ASIO4ALL - maybe not ideal, but worth a try.

Kind regards,


Thank you Fabio for the prompt reply.

As a matter of fact i too tested the orion in between the asio4all drivers.
C7 didn' t crash at startup 8 times on 10, but i got lots of cpu spikes and i couldn't access no more than 2 channels.
So, no go for me. :)

No worries though, i' ll wait for 7.5.
My rant was an attemp to get some attention to the real and actual problems we are encountering.
Bu please, don' t treat us like dumb sheeps.
We are customers who work with your software, dealing with deadlines, money and reputation.

In response to forthwith about graphics:
Mcp system specs in his signature seem more than adequate. The issue is not performance related, but ergonomics wise.
The events are not perceptible in the way it used to be,
The event name on overlay is confusing, while before there was a nice row at the bottom for that purpose, that also contributed to the vertical separation.
I can assure you that the event design is the reason i didn' t buy C6.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby Prock » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:42 pm

Bredo wrote:I really hope there are some, for now, undocumented fixes/changes. There usually are some.



+1 and amen to that!
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby Fabio Bartolini » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:23 pm

edomago wrote:Bu please, don' t treat us like dumb sheeps.


Uh? Did I?

I just wanted to let you know the status of the issue.
Suggesting to try the generic driver was just that, a suggestion in case you didn't try or seen the Orion 32 thread... or got in touch with Antelope (IIRC, they suggested this to at least one Cubase user). Can't know in advance what you did try.

I'm also a customer (have been for over 10 years regarding Steinberg and other 40 developers) and use the software myself to mix for clients - I know what the users need and wouldn't dare to be offensive.

Cheers,
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby mpayne0 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:31 pm

Rhino wrote:I guess most of the folks using Cubase for more than occasional "beatz creation" would agree on the priorities you
I don't understand the sentiment that people that write and arrange music have to be grouped and dumbed down that.

Without the musicians what exactly do you have?

papi61 wrote:
Rhino wrote:All in all that sums up the situation nicely.
I guess most of the folks using Cubase for more than occasional "beatz creation" would agree on the priorities you mentioned.


It's like Cubase is the turkey that's never properly done, but instead of finishing to cook it, Steinberg just adds more and more gravy on top of it.

Here's an idea: instead of having multiple Cubase versions based on how much stuff comes included, how about multiple versions targeted at different kinds of customers? You know, like a version for sound engineers, with none of the "beatz" nonsense but great and solid FX and --most importantly-- a super-stable engine, or a version for film composers, which is also super-stable but offers professional scoring features (you know, like Finale and Sibelius), professional video features, professional syncing features etc. And then a version for the "beatzmakers", that can very likely be the most successful but that trades stability for more and more "gravy", like a ton of loops, a gazillion VST's etc.

I'm pretty sure I only use 10% tops of what comes included with Cubase (instruments, FX, loops --which I NEVER use-- etc.), but I'm still paying for it.
Again, without "beatzmakers" who are you sound engineering for? This attitude and lack of respect would not get a dollar from me.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby mrjixies » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:28 pm

Steve Helstrip wrote:I have no words. Cubase 7.0.6 is full of bugs and crashes frequently and now a paid upgrade??? Steinberg, what planet are you on?


Indeed! You have to be absolutely mental to buy this upgrade?!? But I bet there are a lot of people out there dont mind being a cashcow...
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby NWP » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:41 pm

What version hasn't been left with "issues"? Just the way it is. Wish I had a dime for every user that said they were done with Steinberg and were the first in line to get the latest flavor, I'd have enough dosh to buy C93 and all updates in between.
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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby vintagevibe » Sat Nov 30, 2013 5:48 pm

mpayne0 wrote:
Rhino wrote:I guess most of the folks using Cubase for more than occasional "beatz creation" would agree on the priorities you
I don't understand the sentiment that people that write and arrange music have to be grouped and dumbed down that.

Without the musicians what exactly do you have?

papi61 wrote:
Rhino wrote:All in all that sums up the situation nicely.
I guess most of the folks using Cubase for more than occasional "beatz creation" would agree on the priorities you mentioned.


It's like Cubase is the turkey that's never properly done, but instead of finishing to cook it, Steinberg just adds more and more gravy on top of it.

Here's an idea: instead of having multiple Cubase versions based on how much stuff comes included, how about multiple versions targeted at different kinds of customers? You know, like a version for sound engineers, with none of the "beatz" nonsense but great and solid FX and --most importantly-- a super-stable engine, or a version for film composers, which is also super-stable but offers professional scoring features (you know, like Finale and Sibelius), professional video features, professional syncing features etc. And then a version for the "beatzmakers", that can very likely be the most successful but that trades stability for more and more "gravy", like a ton of loops, a gazillion VST's etc.

I'm pretty sure I only use 10% tops of what comes included with Cubase (instruments, FX, loops --which I NEVER use-- etc.), but I'm still paying for it.
Again, without "beatzmakers" who are you sound engineering for? This attitude and lack of respect would not get a dollar from me.


This is all over this thread. If you are an engineer then Cubase should only have features that you personally use. Away with all this creative compositional nonsense. I'd have to question how professional an "engineer" these people are if they think this way. In fact most of this thread is "how dare Steinberg design this software for anyone but me me me.
Windows 7/64, Intel i7 2600K, 16G RAM, 6TB 7200RPM storage, and bunch of software.

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Re: So 7.5 is here (almost)

Postby Svenne » Sat Nov 30, 2013 6:29 pm

Steve Helstrip wrote:Cubase 7.0.6 is full of bugs and crashes frequently and now a paid upgrade??? Steinberg, what planet are you on?

Is it? Does it? I find 7.0.6 reasonably stable. That not said there isn't the original crash, but on the vast majority of the crash occasions some third-party plug-ins were involved. Try this: Install only the OS and Cubase on a second drive (no drivers, no 3rd-party plugins, etc). Is it still unstable? If not, then something else is causing your crashes! Install your drivers one by one test and restart you system between each install. Note the install order. If Cubase becomes unstable after you've installed, let's say "x1.vst".

Remove all plug-ins. Now reinstall "x1.vst". Is Cubase still unstable? If yes, this plug-in is not fully compatible with Cubase. If not, then proceed and install and test the other plug-ins on your list in the reverse order, until Cubase becomes unstable again with, let's say "y1.vst".

Now remove all 3rd-party plug-ins again and reinstall "x1.vst" and "y1.vst". Is Cubase still unstable. If yes, you've found the cause "x1.vst" and "y1.vst" are incompatible with each other. If not, you may need to test with adding other plug-ins between "x1.vst" and "y1.vst" on your list. Sometimes a combination of 3 or more plug-ins are needed to cause the problem.

Yes, this is quite a bit of work, but you'll find the real culprits. There is no point in bantering on Steinberg or Cubase for problems caused by someone else. I am sure that the majority of crashed that Cubase is blamed for is actually caused by rouge 3rd-party plug-in.

mrjixies wrote:Indeed! You have to be absolutely mental to buy this upgrade?!? But I bet there are a lot of people out there dont mind being a cashcow...

If you're going to criticize a Cubase version then first.....Install it!! And stop insulting the other members on this forum.
Cubase 7.5.20 [64bit] + IC Pro, WaveLab Elements 8, Mac Pro 2.8GHz 8-core 8GB, 10.9.4 Mavericks, Firewire Audiofile (to be replaced)
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