7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

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7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby cmaffia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:21 am

Can someone confirm that there's something weird going on when you use Superior Drummer in multi channel mode?
It seems like S1/2, which is usually the kick drum in multi channel mode, is showing up as the Superior Drummer MIDI track on the project screen. It's as if the main folder track and Output S1/2 are one in the same when trying to name the track. The work around is to assign the kick drum from the default S1/2 to S17/18 from the SD mixer, activate S17/18 from the VST rack and hide S1/2 from the mix console. You are not able to hide S1/2 in the project screen as selecting hide has no effect. I've never had to do this before as I've done this hundreds of times in previous versions of Cubase. It should be the main MIDI track (named after the VST by default) and it's sub folders should be the individual instrument tracks as per the SD mixer.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby cmaffia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:14 pm

Has no one using Superior Drummer 2.3.2 tried this yet? I want to confirm first that it's not just me before I submit this as an issue with Steinberg. Thanks.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby cmaffia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:27 pm

Bredo wrote:I saw this post from an enthusiastic forum member:

viewtopic.php?f=181&t=51379

He refers to have saved 30 minutes in session today cause of setting up Superior Drummer.

Hope this helps. You may at least establish contact :)

OK.. well I never had a problem with multichannel outs with Superior Drummer since version 5 nor does this address my issue. I question WHY he couldn't do that before 7.5... wierd.

I am not saying it doesn't work, I'm saying it doesn't work correctly in 7.5 on the first output channel only...
Last edited by cmaffia on Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby Lundin » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:28 pm

Yes.. it loads the trackpresetname i believe as the first pair.. i tried this yesterday but didn't care that much about the naming as to get the output's right, and get the output's saved.. i have 15 other drumsamplers / libraries i will do trackpresets for so each of them has the same type of routing into CB to be able to work fast with my E-kit.. i noticed thought that you can't have separate quickcontrols on each separate track when using "Instrument-track" and multiple outs.. swithching to a regular "VST-rack-track" each separate output will have their separate quickcontrols.. I also use 8 CMC's with CB which makes it very easy when having comp's and stuff not having to open the GUI's to tweak settings..

Sorry for wandering off reggarding your question.. i will have to read it again and see if i can verify later tonight
Last edited by Lundin on Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby cmaffia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:29 pm

Thanks for the confirmation Lundin. You will see that your S1/2 outputs are the same as the MIDI track name. If you name S1/2 Kick Drum... then the MIDI track folder is now named Kick Drum and the real Kick Drum track reverts back to S1/2 in the project screen. In other words in multichannel mode, the name of the S/12 output is over riding the name of the VST main folder. It's never done this before and I can load up 6.5, 7.0.6 and it works as it should. To me this seems like an unfortunate byproduct of the new VST Rack.
Last edited by cmaffia on Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby Lundin » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:40 pm

EDIT: Oh.. i think i misread the question regarding what you wrote in the last post.. will have to check tonight what you mean.

I don't remember if the regular "VST-Rack-track" handled the output's the same way? I think i'm going to use the latter when creating my Trackpresets because of the way quickcontrollers are handled on each separate track though.
Last edited by Lundin on Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby cmaffia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:43 pm

I should be able to name S1/2 with Superior Drummer in multichannel mode to whaterver I want and 7.5 doesn't let me without changing the Main Folder name to the same name :-).
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby Lundin » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:50 pm

It's actually a few seconds away.. will check right now, hang on.

Confirmed: Renaming track name "1/2" to "Kick" will revert back to the name "1/2" if folding and unfolding the track even if you save as preset or trackpreset in between.. renaming track "3/4" to "Snare" is saved though.. maybe it has to be investigated a little further to see what the problem is, but it smells like a bug.. i Wonder if saving the preset in Superior will keep the name as it seems like it's getting the names from the plug

EDIT2: The outputs in Superior seems hardwired to the names so i guess the problem's still valid until someone at Steinberg could verify the intention here.
Last edited by Lundin on Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby cmaffia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:51 pm

Lundin wrote:EDIT: Oh.. i think i misread the question regarding what you wrote in the last post.. will have to check tonight what you mean.

I don't remember if the regular "VST-Rack-track" handled the output's the same way? I think i'm going to use the latter when creating my Trackpresets because of the way quickcontrollers are handled on each separate track though.


The old VST rack did handle the same way.. just using the older interface but it worked correctly. Maybe this issue goes beyond Superior Drummer.. just haven't tried Multichannel with any other VST yet.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby cmaffia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:19 pm

Lundin wrote:It's actually a few seconds away.. will check right now, hang on.

Confirmed: Renaming track name "1/2" to "Kick" will revert back to the name "1/2" if folding and unfolding the track even if you save as preset or trackpreset in between.. renaming track "3/4" to "Snare" is saved though.. maybe it has to be investigated a little further to see what the problem is, but it smells like a bug.. i Wonder if saving the preset in Superior will keep the name as it seems like it's getting the names from the plug

EDIT2: The outputs in Superior seems hardwired to the names so i guess the problem's still valid until someone at Steinberg could verify the intention here.


Thanks for the confirm! Now can someone confirm whether or not this problem exists when trying to name the first S1/2 output channel for ANYTHING in the VST rack in multichannel mode?

Steinberg looks like this is a bug.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby dr4kan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:19 pm

confirmed here too.

In addition to that I find that if I bounce to audio from within SD and then I import the output files back to Cubase, they are out of synch with the original midi. I don't remember of having had this issue in the past. Can somebody confirm?

EDIT: I tried the same operation (with the same kit, midi file, etc...) in Studio One and it worked perfectly there...
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby abyss » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:50 pm

don't you just hate that ... Track preset won't remember your routing and fx sends
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby willynanita » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:17 pm

dr4kan wrote:confirmed here too.

In addition to that I find that if I bounce to audio from within SD and then I import the output files back to Cubase, they are out of synch with the original midi. I don't remember of having had this issue in the past. Can somebody confirm?

EDIT: I tried the same operation (with the same kit, midi file, etc...) in Studio One and it worked perfectly there...


Bouncing works fine here... I will keep testing though.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby cmaffia » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:22 pm

I didn't try bouncing but FWIW wow I had that happen once in 7.0 and it ended up being a corrupted project.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby Lundin » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:10 pm

@dr4kan: Hmm do you mean bouncing from - within - Superior and not bouncing from Cubase? It sounds like your missing the latencycompensation that way?.. or maybe i didn't understand the question correctly.

I seem to remember that they added latencycompensation for MIDI as well in 7.** that would take care of that problem with audio not lining up with midi in some cases.. i haven't really had that issue... yet... so i don't know if it's even close to what you experience.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby dr4kan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:15 pm

willynanita wrote:
dr4kan wrote:confirmed here too.

In addition to that I find that if I bounce to audio from within SD and then I import the output files back to Cubase, they are out of synch with the original midi. I don't remember of having had this issue in the past. Can somebody confirm?

EDIT: I tried the same operation (with the same kit, midi file, etc...) in Studio One and it worked perfectly there...


Bouncing works fine here... I will keep testing though.


Thanks for checking. Interesting. Can you please tell me if "Record-start at MIDI", in SD settings, is checked? because I have that problem when "Record-start at MIDI" is unchecked.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby willynanita » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:22 pm

dr4kan wrote:
willynanita wrote:
dr4kan wrote:confirmed here too.

In addition to that I find that if I bounce to audio from within SD and then I import the output files back to Cubase, they are out of synch with the original midi. I don't remember of having had this issue in the past. Can somebody confirm?

EDIT: I tried the same operation (with the same kit, midi file, etc...) in Studio One and it worked perfectly there...


Bouncing works fine here... I will keep testing though.


Thanks for checking. Interesting. Can you please tell me if "Record-start at MIDI", in SD settings, is checked? because I have that problem when "Record-start at MIDI" is unchecked.


Record-start at midi is unchecked and the resulting audio is in sync with the original midi.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby dr4kan » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:34 pm

willynanita wrote:
Record-start at midi is unchecked and the resulting audio is in sync with the original midi.


Just to be 100% sure. Are you using the bouncing function in Superior Drummer or are you bouncing with Cubase?
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby willynanita » Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:36 pm

dr4kan wrote:
willynanita wrote:
Record-start at midi is unchecked and the resulting audio is in sync with the original midi.


Just to be 100% sure. Are you using the bouncing function in Superior Drummer or are you bouncing with Cubase?
Thanks.


Yes, bouncing from Superior, then adding the files back to Cubase, everything is in sync.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby dr4kan » Fri Dec 06, 2013 8:46 am

willynanita wrote:
dr4kan wrote:
willynanita wrote:
Record-start at midi is unchecked and the resulting audio is in sync with the original midi.


Just to be 100% sure. Are you using the bouncing function in Superior Drummer or are you bouncing with Cubase?
Thanks.


Yes, bouncing from Superior, then adding the files back to Cubase, everything is in sync.


Thanks. One last thing :). As it looks like also a guy at Toontrack have this issue, I'd like to understand why it works for you and not for us. So, I make a step by step guide to reproduce it:

- "Record-start at midi" is unchecked in SD
- the loop in the project is NOT at the beginning (for example make it start at bar 2)
- enable "R" in the bounce window of SD, start playing FROM THE BEGINNING (bar 1) until the end of the loop and then bounce with SD (24 bit, all bleed on)
- import back in Cubase and move the tracks to the beginning (bar 1)
- if everything works, all your SD audio tracks start at bar 1 and are perfectly in sync with the midi loop which start at bar 2 (and this is what I find in Studio One but not in Cubase 7.5)

Can you please confirm that if you follow this you obtain the expected result?

Thanks for debugging.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby jose7822 » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:15 am

I've been having the out of sync problem with SD2's internal bounce since before C7.5. I don't think this is a new bug, so I would simply line up the audio to the MIDI manually. I remember the audio used to line up correctly in C6.5 though. But I admit I don't use SD2 as much as I used to.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby willynanita » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:41 pm

dr4kan wrote:Thanks. One last thing :). As it looks like also a guy at Toontrack have this issue, I'd like to understand why it works for you and not for us. So, I make a step by step guide to reproduce it:

- "Record-start at midi" is unchecked in SD
- the loop in the project is NOT at the beginning (for example make it start at bar 2)
- enable "R" in the bounce window of SD, start playing FROM THE BEGINNING (bar 1) until the end of the loop and then bounce with SD (24 bit, all bleed on)
- import back in Cubase and move the tracks to the beginning (bar 1)
- if everything works, all your SD audio tracks start at bar 1 and are perfectly in sync with the midi loop which start at bar 2 (and this is what I find in Studio One but not in Cubase 7.5)

Can you please confirm that if you follow this you obtain the expected result?

Thanks for debugging.


I was bouncing from mixer.
If I do not check "bounce from mixer" in Superior, the tracks are not synced.
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby willynanita » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:53 pm

I just made another test again, moved all events one bar, bounced and the resulting files are in sync.
Nothing different from my last test.
Is this a random thing?
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Re: 7.5 - Superior Drummer Multi Channel Issue

Postby willynanita » Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:59 pm

I can't reproduce the problem anymore I also loaded another kit in Superior and the tracks start at bar 2 and I start to bounce from bar 1.

The resulting tracks are all in sync and starting from bar 1 (audio starts at bar 2 as expected, but the files start at bar 1).
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