Love track Versions

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Re: Love track Versions

Postby sonicstate » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:53 pm

Bredo wrote:You won't call it misleading, beacause you assumed ;)


Yes, I assumed. Misled by my own excitement... :)
Anyway, I'm sure I'll be able to find some use of track versions as they are. I mean, I can still switch midi and audio tracks by mouse and record to new track in real time, so there is some fun to it...
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby jules » Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:54 pm

f.e wrote:Oh god i didn't have time to check it does work for inserts too ! This is marvelous, i didn't expect so much.

No, it don't, or am i missing something ? What a great feature it could be, but probably causing loading times problems. Extanded to the whole mix console, it could be a dream for tryin different mix of a song.
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby MGil » Thu Dec 05, 2013 2:46 pm

For me, track versions is worth the upgrade!

Let's say you have a vocal track and you want to test this vocal with a little more compression and reverb, but you realize that the ssss sound is very prominent and you don't want to use a D-Esser.
You can now create a version track and adjust the effects and cut the sss sounds manually in this new version.

You could do this before duplicating the first track, but now it's more intuitive, cluster free.
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby Jalcide » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:27 pm

MGil wrote:For me, track versions is worth the upgrade!

Let's say you have a vocal track and you want to test this vocal with a little more compression and reverb, but you realize that the ssss sound is very prominent and you don't want to use a D-Esser.
You can now create a version track and adjust the effects and cut the sss sounds manually in this new version.

You could do this before duplicating the first track, but now it's more intuitive, cluster free.
regards


It doesn't appear this can be done. Inserts and routing don't "version," nor does automation.

This was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for, too.
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby papi61 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:38 pm

Jalcide wrote:
MGil wrote:For me, track versions is worth the upgrade!

Let's say you have a vocal track and you want to test this vocal with a little more compression and reverb, but you realize that the ssss sound is very prominent and you don't want to use a D-Esser.
You can now create a version track and adjust the effects and cut the sss sounds manually in this new version.

You could do this before duplicating the first track, but now it's more intuitive, cluster free.
regards


It doesn't appear this can be done. Inserts and routing don't "version," nor does automation.

This was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for, too.


Yes, it would have been great, but my main use for the versions is more "musical" than technical. In other words, I wouldn't use multiple versions for something radically different (for that I would still use different tracks), but for different musical ideas expressed within the very same context (i.e. same instrument, same FX, same levels etc.) I believe it's what this feature was designed for.
Last edited by papi61 on Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby MGil » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:42 pm

You are right #jalcide :-(
It can't be done.
Let's hope for an "Advanced Track version" feature in Cubase 8. :-)
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby Willie Green » Thu Dec 05, 2013 5:46 pm

It's more of a recording/editing/comping tool than something for mix moves. If you want to combine parts from different TrackVersions, just cut and paste to a master comp version.

This is brilliant for clean versions and alternate vocals takes. Instead of having to duplicate tracks and mute them, which could be problematic if you're using external inserts for example.
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby sonicstate » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:01 pm

Willie Green wrote: Instead of having to duplicate tracks and mute them, which could be problematic if you're using external inserts for example.


This is the first reason for track versions that makes sense to me - external fx. To keep the same fx routing, and only change "events" on the track. Kinda like a folder for ideas that stick to the same channel. But I fail to see how this differs from lanes. Maybe it is just another way to deal with lanes, while lanes worked more as comping tool, now track versions work as named fixed set of material that plays through track channel. Anyway, not at all what I hoped it to be.
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby papi61 » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:06 pm

It's more of a recording/editing/comping tool than something for mix moves. If you want to combine parts from different TrackVersions, just cut and paste to a master comp version.


Lanes is by far the best tool for that.
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby Jalcide » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:30 pm

papi61 wrote:Yes, it would have been great, but my main use for the versions is more "musical" than technical. In other words, I wouldn't use multiple versions for something radically different (for that I would still use different tracks), but for different musical ideas expressed within the very same context (i.e. same instrument, same FX, same levels etc.) I believe it's what this feature was designed for.


Yes, well said.

I guess my expression of "musical" has become inextricably tied to effects. I think this underscores my real concern with the missing feature set:

Is it simply work-in-progress, versionable automation is planned, or is the Steinberg product philosophy and target audience such that this feature is considered "done"?

To stick my neck out a little, as a so-called "EDM" artist (don't like that term, but will use it out of convenience to make a point), I'm slightly annoyed that a feature that is so painfully close to filling a common "EDM" problem -- versioning (an industry where different "versions" are common) -- falls short of its full potential. If it's simply work-in-progress, I'll rejoice.

Meanwhile, Steinberg has spend resources on a marketing-friendly "EDM Construction Kit" that I will certainly never use. I get it. I'm glad they're being savvy and I'm sure the Kits are great and many will love them. It would just be very worrisome to me if this is Steinberg's answer to useful, industrial-strength EDM-oriented tools, like: Studio One's batch track freezing and frozen-track arrangement features.

- Spoken with deep respect, as a 20+ year Cubase user (who has strayed, but always comes home)
Last edited by Jalcide on Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby JMCecil » Thu Dec 05, 2013 6:57 pm

I think it boils down to how I wanted lanes to work. Once I comped my takes, I wanted to save that as a version in a version list that I could then drop somewhere else in the project.
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby greggybud » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:26 pm

I watched the video explaining track lanes and was led to believe this is a new way of comping.

Maybe it would be best for someone to explain and point out the major differences between using The Audio Part Editor (lanes) and using track lanes?

I suppose the big difference is when comping in the Audio Part Editor effect processing is not possible other than what effects are on your original track. With track lanes, it's possible to apply different effects on different tracks taking in consideration of the limitations such as inserts, routing, automation?
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby boobar » Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:50 am

Hmmm majorly disappointed that inserts, sends and automation are the same in each version, first thing i tried after updating. Seems like a huge opportunity missed
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby f.e » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:17 am

Soul-Burn wrote:@Keith99 It works on *everything* the channel has, including inserts. It works on channels other than midi or audio, like chords track, tempo etc. Don't forget each version has its own lanes, which can be used for different takes of that version of the track.


Arghhh, you gave me false hopes, it's so disapointing. It does NOT work with inserts. At all.

Manual says : "Create, rename and manage parallel versions of the same track or tracks and use them to compare takes or create alternative versions of your recordings while keeping all track settings."
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby sonicstate » Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:49 am

f.e wrote:
Soul-Burn wrote:@Keith99 It works on *everything* the channel has, including inserts. It works on channels other than midi or audio, like chords track, tempo etc. Don't forget each version has its own lanes, which can be used for different takes of that version of the track.


Arghhh, you gave me false hopes, it's so disapointing. It does NOT work with inserts. At all.

Manual says : "Create, rename and manage parallel versions of the same track or tracks and use them to compare takes or create alternative versions of your recordings while keeping all track settings."


Yes, it is misleading a bit, is it.... Seems to me like Steinberg tried to sell it as a bit more than it really is.
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby Centralmusic » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:23 am

Jalcide wrote:
MGil wrote:For me, track versions is worth the upgrade!

Let's say you have a vocal track and you want to test this vocal with a little more compression and reverb, but you realize that the ssss sound is very prominent and you don't want to use a D-Esser.
You can now create a version track and adjust the effects and cut the sss sounds manually in this new version.

You could do this before duplicating the first track, but now it's more intuitive, cluster free.
regards


It doesn't appear this can be done. Inserts and routing don't "version," nor does automation.

This was exactly the kind of thing I was hoping for, too.


not correct... ;-) for > DeEssing (!) you can use the "Volume Envelope Events" in Cubase - a great solution to adjust "sss" in a vocal track...
drawing directly on the event with the pencil tool:

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Re: Love track Versions

Postby Soul-Burn » Fri Dec 06, 2013 3:21 pm

Sorry I mislead you. I was mislead by the Steinberg video. Well, too bad :(
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby Jalcide » Fri Dec 06, 2013 7:32 pm

From what I can gather from this video, from about 12:30 to 17:00, version-able automation appears to be planned!

W00t!

I think from something called "Mix Versions" perhaps? Can someone confirm?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qxKjU2eD_4#t=12m30s

(Btw, the CC Translate is mostly useless, but feel free to turn it on.)

It seems the host asks Helge the question we've been asking (is automation version-able), notice his reaction when Helge responses "no." :lol:

(Btw, did I hear a "Walking Dead" reference in there? Can someone translate this? Lol)

Helge then goes on to suggest it is planned. Someone German-speaking, please correct me if my gist about all this was incorrect.

I goes on, from what I can gather, that the reason automation was not included was related to memory footprint.

If so, I would argue that with modern computers able to wield Gigabytes of cached audio and video files in RAM, some automation data should be relatively trivial. I hope they find a way to optimize and add the feature. It's not lost on me how "snappy / instantaneous" the version switching is (which is awesome), so I realize they don't want this part to be sluggish.

But sounds like promising news!
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Re: Love track Versions

Postby MGil » Fri Dec 06, 2013 10:00 pm

Centralmusic wrote:not correct... ;-) for > DeEssing (!) you can use the "Volume Envelope Events" in Cubase - a great solution to adjust "sss" in a vocal track...
drawing directly on the event with the pencil tool:

Image


Hi Centralmusic,

When I want to cut the sss manually, I prefer to open the event in the Sample Editor, select the sss and just use a macro I've created to decrease the gain in 3 dbs.
It's a very fast way and you can even adjust an automatic pre and post croustade to turn the applied reduction a little more smooth.
Anyway, just different approaches.
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