Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby cmaffia » Sat Dec 21, 2013 1:17 pm

Most of my serious musician friends have moved from Mac to PC. The advantage of the Mac is gone nowadays unless you call paying more an advantage. All of my music apps and hardware work fine, never ever had a crash on several of my machines so reliability was never a concern.
Tascam DM3200 - IF-FW/DMMKII - IF-AN/DM - Tascam DA-3000 Mastering Recorder - Cubase 7.5.20 32/64-Bit - i7-3770, 3.4GHz Quad Core - 8GB RAM - Windows 7 Home Premium 64 - UAD-2 Solo - UAD-2 Duo - Steinberg CC121 - Frontier Tranzport - Wavelab 8.03 32/64-Bit

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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby papi61 » Sat Dec 21, 2013 9:13 pm

Graham_Simmonds wrote:To answer the original question, things to look out for with Windows 7 64bit are:

1. Avoid Windows 8 - Windows 7 is much more stable as a music platform.

2. Firewire - if your audio interface is firewire then take care with the choice of motherboard. I have a MR816X and it has caused problems in the past with clicking and popping. I use Gigabyte motherboards as the firewire on those seem to be compatible.

3. Buy a PC not a laptop. If you are hellbent on a laptop then seek out the DPC Latency Checker app and test it before you buy. It could save you a lot of money. You can also overclock a PC.

4. 64 bit plugs - make sure that you have the 64 bit version of every plug you need. 32 bit/64 bit mix does not work.

5. Noise - Some PCs are incredibly noisy when under load. If you build your own, look for a fanless graphics card, quiet CPU fan and power supply.

When you look at the list above, the MAC concept is quite appealing. No hardware compatibility issues for a start and as someone said, plug and go. MACs suit the non-tekky who just wants to get on with it. But that ease of use comes at the price of compromise. There is no MAC available that is custom built for audio like the PC that I have under my desk.

Good luck with your migration.


1. Not true. Actually Win 8.1 performs slightly better than 7 and it's just as stable. But it's true that it's not "officially" supported by Steinberg yet. Anyhow, I've been using it for a while now, with zero issues.

2. All my desktops use ASUS mobos. No problem with FW. What you're saying might have been true some years ago, but it no longer applies.

3. The tip here should be "buy a GOOD laptop and not a cheap one" ($500 laptops most likely will give you trouble.) My Elitebook has extremely low latency and works fine with FW. But yeah, good desktops with top-notch parts are still way better. Not to mention way more flexible because you can configure them as you please.

4. jBridge solves virtually all issues with 32-bit VST's and it only costs 20 bucks.

5. Again, the tip here should be the same as above: don't go for the cheap stuff and you'll be fine.
Desktop: i7 3770k, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX770 + GT640-DCSL fanless, 3 monitors (30" 2560x1600 + 2x 27" 1920x1080), 256 GB SSD (OS), 2 TB SATA III (audio), 3 TB SATA III (sample libraries), 3x 3 TB USB 3.0 (backup/archives), RME UFX, Win 8.1 Pro x64, Cubase 7.5, Sonar X3, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5.

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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Wolfie2112 » Sun Dec 22, 2013 6:00 am

Freddie H wrote:
dr4kan wrote:
As you perhaps know, its not a computer for any professionals either. 4 USB ports, no second display, no ability to add a hard drive internal, no ability to add a PCI express card, no ability to add a SSD drive, no ability to use high-end graphic cards. Its very clear, that its not made for any serious professional even though if the name still state, "PRO". So perhaps its "PRO" of something else? Perhaps "pro" on cost money?

Best Regards
Freddie


Come on man, do your homework. The new Mac Pro is a killer machine. If you knew anything about Mac, you would know that the Thunderbolt ports (for one example) are for display, I have 4 connected to my Mac. They also offer one the highest grade video cards available. Are they expensive? For the average hobbyist, yes. But for a pro composer who needs a power house right out of the box, it's a worthy investment. If you don't like them, don't buy it.

And as already mentioned several times, I work with Pc's as well....of course they are reliable, I never said they weren't. I can't speak for Win 8, but 7 is solid. Just because I switched to Mac doesn't mean I'm bashing Windows LOL!! I just love the no-nonsense approach of Mac, and I love how Mavericks works. Why? I can explain, but it's just so simple...no screwing around with drivers, etc..

Actually, I still use Sonar X3 on PC, and do all of my Pro Tools work there as well. However, I do all my composition on Mac with C7 and Logic. I love it...nuff said.

And Merry Christmas to all!
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Mirco Zappaterra » Sun Dec 22, 2013 8:56 am

thanks to all, really thanks

 types and choices.

1: mac mini 2012 i7 , 2.6, 16 gb ram, 256 ssd 2
2 : pc I build ...
 components:


Motherboard ASUS Maximus V Extreme ...
cpu .. Intel Core i7- 4770K Haswell
ram ... Corsair Vengeance 16GB CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10
ssd .
            Samsung MZ- 7PD256BW , SSD 840 PRO Stand Alone 256 GB x 2
video card ..... ASUS 90- C1CS61 -
power supply .... Corsair CP- 9020061 -EU Corsair Builder Series Modular Power Supply Cx750M CXM 750 W - 80 Plus Bronze
win 7 64 bit ...

At present, he use rme Fireface 800 + rme adda 8 converter


on mac mini would go on a Fireface ucx
while on pc would opt out of rme pci expres AIO with a converter adda 8 that I have already in my studio

a little checking on the Internet both Mac and PC systems costing exactly the same .. EUR in 1500 for mac 1560 for pc build ...
  time :
 I am already having my macbook I would use for internet , photos, youtube videos , etc. etc..
I would use it exclusively for the PC to make music ...
would install only cubase 7.5 and halion 5 and I've already ..
for both systems have an external usb hd with libraries of 10 years of work ...
Mainly I carry 2 different types of work ,
1. 'm Writing soundtracks and background music for video screenings of documentaries
and audio montages in general for photographic exhibitions .

2 music for the theater of my city

for my future I want to work in the world of music for video games ..

I've tried over the years all platforms : logic , cubase , protools ... I miss digital performer, but can not find anyone that has ever had.
logic sounds very good , even protools 10 has a phenomenal mixer , but for audio \ midi and the speed of work, cubase is unmatched.
 then : I am not very techie and I do not buy many plugins to have the problem of the 32 bit ..
until now use those cubase and I have bought the Sonnox limiter and the fab filter delay .... I'm not interested in having 10000 plugins and does not drain from the network, I focus a lot on the sounds and effects.
noise, soundproofing videos, short films.
I thought the uad 2 quad core, powerful and compatible plugin for 64-bit with cubase. I would take out pci pci express on mac mini with firewire uad satellite.
  'm really indecisive ..........
  anyway thank you to all
Merry Christmas to you too
mirco
That the world would be without cubase 7 and cmc six pack?
  I love this combination, a perfect marriage.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby dr4kan » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:24 am

@mirco: I noticed that for the configuration 1 you put 1 SSD while for configuration 2 you put 2 SSD.

just in case you didn't know, you can add a second internal HDD/SSD to a mac mini. I have a mac mini with 2 Samsung 840 Pro (2 x 512 GB)...

Ciao.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Mirco Zappaterra » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:13 am

ok

thanks,
as you are with the mac mni and 2 ssd?
  thanks
That the world would be without cubase 7 and cmc six pack?
  I love this combination, a perfect marriage.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby dr4kan » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:37 am

Mirco Zappaterra wrote:ok

thanks,
as you are with the mac mni and 2 ssd?
  thanks


Yes I have the 2012 Mac mini (the latest one) with 16 GB of ram and 2 SSD (2 x 512 GB Samsung 840 Pro). To install the second SSD you need a kit you can find here:

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Installing+ ... +Kit/11713
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Mirco Zappaterra » Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:35 pm

What services do you have with cubase 7.5? thanks
That the world would be without cubase 7 and cmc six pack?
  I love this combination, a perfect marriage.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby dr4kan » Sun Dec 22, 2013 2:27 pm

Mirco Zappaterra wrote:What services do you have with cubase 7.5? thanks


services? what do you mean?
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Mirco Zappaterra » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:14 pm

I'm sorry
I wanted to say that you have with the performance macmini?
That the world would be without cubase 7 and cmc six pack?
  I love this combination, a perfect marriage.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby dr4kan » Sun Dec 22, 2013 9:22 pm

Mirco Zappaterra wrote:I'm sorry
I wanted to say that you have with the performance macmini?


zero performance issues. low cpu and asio usage...so very good experience in my case.
Cubase 7.5, Mac i7 16 GB ram (512 + 512 Samsung 840 pro), OSX 10.9.0
MR816X, Motu Ultralite, UAD 2, MCU Pro, CC121, Adam A7x, Axiom 49...
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Graham_Simmonds » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:31 am

papi61 - my friend from your answers on this forum you seem to enjoy ripping into other people's experience as if it is meaningless and wrong. I am not going to waste my time taking exception to what you wrote but you need to learn some respect. Some of us have been around a long time.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby uarte » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:25 am

No question: Bang for the buck = Windows. Having said that, I am in the process of moving from Windows to Mac and I don't regret the decision so far. :) There are many reasons why I'm going to Mac, but adoption of platform is definitely a personal preference thing and your needs will be different than mine. The great thing is, that migration either way is not that difficult, so you can always move back if you dislike Windows.

For someone who is moving FROM Mac TO Windows, I strongly suggest that you do NOT build your own machine the first time around. I'd suggest going with a professional DAW builder. I can recommend ADK, who from personal experience, I can say really know what they are talking about. I'm not affiliated with them, but I have trusted them in the past and would trust them again to put together the type of computer you need and it will be tuned for DAW work. They know DAWs inside and out.

Also, as far as interfaces go, I'd also suggest you go with RME for their superior driver stability and performance. Unless you need some specific features they don't offer, RME drivers have worked best for me over all other interface products (and I've owned and used quite a few). Lynx is a close second.

Good luck with your switch! You'll definitely get more mileage out of a Windows machine for the same money. Personally, I'm quite happy going the other way -- from Windows to Mac -- and expect that when I need more CPU horsepower, I'll just run VEPro and slave one of my remaining Windows machines. :) I have yet to need it, although I have it for when the time comes. (I bought it a while back and used it on Windows.) The OSX workflow is better IMO, and most of my clients (including every filmmaker I work with) use Macs, so it was just a matter of time before I switched. But it's very possible to make the jump, and Windows 7 is a totally stable platform for professional audio/music production, given the proper setup. So no worries there: Cubase has been and is fantastic on Windows. I now prefer C7.5 on Mac OSX, however, but it will work beautifully (and in fact will have even better low-latency performance) on a properly configured Windows DAW.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Mrhehon » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:50 am

Graham_Simmonds wrote:papi61 - my friend from your answers on this forum you seem to enjoy ripping into other people's experience as if it is meaningless and wrong. I am not going to waste my time taking exception to what you wrote but you need to learn some respect. Some of us have been around a long time.


That was very politely put Graham. I’m sorry but I did take exception from this gentleman’s rudeness and will not be spending much time on this forum.
Also just for the record it is not only on this forum.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... ion-2.html
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Jalcide » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:00 am

Ah yes, the age-old Mac vs PC debate returns and I'm glad.

It wasn't until just recently that Apple even graced us with the knowledge that they'd be making pro-level Macs, again. Three years was a long time to wait.

I'm glad Apple hasn't dropped the Mac Pro line.

I'm also grateful Cubase works on both platforms, many DAWs don't.

I desperately needed to upgrade a dying 2006 Mac Pro right around mid 2011, but with the at the time overpriced 2010-era Apple hardware looking less sweet, I waited it out ... painfully ... until 2012 when I couldn't wait and had to switch platforms, completely.

I was not pleased (understatement). This was a BIG change (it was more than just audio-related for me). It affected my business and personal life.

I felt betrayed. We creative professionals stood by Apple in its darkest hour. So where was this more-cash-than-a-government company now, once it had completed world domination; an iOS device in every hand?

Totally and completely missing in action. The Mac Pros, and the future of Apple-based professional content creators was to be a past era, or so it appeared.

Summer 2013: Well, well, well. Finally, I guess someone at Apple realized someone had to make all the fancy content to fill its iPads' screens.

For me: Too little, too late.

I will never put myself in that situation again. For me, it will be cheap, easy to upgrade hardware, here-forth.

But, the fact we're having the classic Mac vs PC debate does make me feel that somehow order in the universe has been restored.

Choices are good.
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Rack-mounted DAW2 (Real-time Mastering Chain connected to DAW1 via ADAT Optical): Reaper 64-bit, Win 7 64-bit, i5-4670K @ 4.0GHz, 16 Gigs DDR3, Focusrite Saffire Pro 40, One 20" ACD
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby uarte » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:58 am

@Jalcide - I know many people who felt betrayed by Apple, and some of them ended up switching to Windows. After a while, some switched back to Macs. Some stuck with Windows, though. The last blow for some of them came with the introduction of Final Cut Pro X, which at the time was very upsetting to some of my filmmaker friends. But many of them stuck around with Apple, despite the grumbling and frustration. In the end, most of them stuck with Apple (or returned to Apple) and adapted, often dumping Final Cut and moving to Adobe... partly to hedge their bets so they could be OS agnostic in the future if needed. In fact, all my filmmaker *clients* are still on Macs, and amazingly, some of them have even stuck with Final Cut, despite the mess. Most of the studios I work with or know are still on Macs too. If anything, the Final Cut Pro X fiasco was a great wake-up call in a lot of ways... and it also showed me that people will adapt to the situations, but mostly stick with old patterns. The OS itself was generally not the primary issue... but rather the apps they needed to use for business. Business stability and day-to-day continuity trumps a lot of things... making a platform change is not "convenient" for most businesses to make, so they tend to stick through the tough times.

Frankly, if it weren't for my clients, I'd still be on Windows. But just as one giant of the industry screws up (as Apple has done), so does another industry giant screw up ... and Microsoft had to take a turn too. For me, that was Windows 8, which I can't stand to use. Fortunately, Microsoft appears to be learning its lesson (slowly), and supposedly, more changes are coming to the next iteration of Windows beyond Windows 8.1.

What I've learned from all these recent developments (aka failures/mistakes), at least as it relates to DAWs, is that the real solution is not in picking the right OS platform per se, but rather in picking the right DAW software! Right now, I primarily use Pro Tools and Cubase (with a number of other DAW licenses as well, as needed), and they work great on *both* Windows and OSX platforms. So if anything, I can look at my OS platform as a secondary element... or rather as a "support framework" for my chosen DAW apps. So really, in one sense I'm also OS agnostic, since what really matters to me, above anything else, is the core DAW app.

Having said that, I have been making the transition to OSX from Windows, and I definitely prefer the workflow, and it fits my business, clients and projects better for now. But everyone will have their own unique needs that will influence them one way or another. What works for me may not work best for you, obviously.

As for being "betrayed" by one company or another, I've been around long enough that every single company I've worked with (or better said, purchased products from) for more than 7-10 years has "betrayed" me in one sense or another. Apple can get in line with the rest of them. I can tell you horror stories about Apple, Microsoft, Avid, Steinberg, etc., you name it. They've all done it at one time or another if they've been in business for a while. The key is using the tools that work best for your needs *right now*. Apple will no doubt "betray" some market segment again... as will Microsoft, Avid, etc... We sure hope that Steinberg WON'T do that again.... they've been doing pretty well under the ownership of Yamaha... but you never know... management could change again, and we could be in a mess again. I don't see that happening any time soon, but I try not to hold grudges too long against companies if they have a tool that helps me get my work done and make a living.

For now, my preference lies with OSX, but if Apple blows it, I can easily jump back to Windows if I have to -- or use both with VEPro. If Windows works best for you -- for whatever reason -- go for it. I certainly will keep a couple of Windows machines around...

In any case, we truly live in an amazing time, where the tools we use are so incredible and powerful, we don't really need to argue platform issues any more. It's really just a simple preference. And while Windows will certainly win the bang-for-buck equation, I've found great performance so far from my Macs -- I even bought my son one and he's already doing more with it than he ever did with his Windows machine. It's just a tool, though. If the tool helps get stuff done, doesn't matter if it costs 25-30% more if he does 100% more stuff on it. As for me, I could have stuck with Windows, but I'm definitely enjoying the Mac platform... for now.... :) Main thing is, Cubase is great on both platforms. :)
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Jalcide » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:03 am

Thanks, Uarte. I appreciate the thoughtful response. I too, consider myself platform agnostic. I have a mixture of PCs, Macs and Linux. I have a four monitor spread (Apple Cinema Displays) and use Synergy to span my mouse and keyboard across them.

Yes, Windows 8, is definitely a work-in-progress. I find Metro nice in concept, but annoying in its current state.

But I think the unique distinction and strong-worded "betrayal" is fitting to Apple and Apple, alone. Because they did something unprecedented in the industry. They provided an end-to-end solution for creative and IT professionals, went out of their way to lock down that solution such that only their hardware could be used, and then proceeded to effectively pull the plug on the entire solution.

It wasn't just the proprietary workstation-class hardware and its apps that "ended" without warning, it was their server-based solutions, and distributed network products that also ended without warning.

No business owner should be put in the position of having to invest in almost three year old hardware, that worse still, was at a premium price and under-performing from day one, and worse still, at that same premium price years later, and worst still, could have been a complete dead end -- we didn't know until Summer of 2013 that it was not the case!

Three years, in tech industry years, is a very, very long time. It's tantamount to ending a platform.

It was not just a few months, it was years!

It was an outrageous position that Apple put many of us in. Few business owners in 2012 needing to grow by 10 or more workstation-class seats would have made a decision to not switch, lightly.

I'll still buy Apple iOS devices and laptops (as bootcamp works very well), but won't ever again invest in their workstation-class hardware, nor rely on any apps tied to that hardware.

That said, audio software wise, I still continue to hedge my bets in one small way: I won't buy an audio plugin that's PC-only. While it's impossible for the PC hardware industry to "disappear" like Apple's did, I still like the idea of having an Apple choice and safety net. For example, right now in fact, I have an old Mac Pro set up as a dedicated mastering chain.

Which btw, case-in-point: this perfectly fast enough hardware (a 2006 Mac Pro) will run the plugins I want for the chain (just), but because Apple has arbitrarily and artificially decided not to allow Mavericks to run on it (it does run if you hack around), I can't install Slate Digital's VBC because of a bug in the installer.

Should the VBC installer work on an OS three versions behind? Maybe.

But certainly Apple didn't need to artificially prevent my Mac Pro from running the latest OS when it's fully capable of doing so. In fact, part of the hack to get it to run (which I don't have the inclination to try) is to edit a file that has the original "Mac Pro 1,1" identifier "blacklisted"! So frustrating, and very "Apple."
Last edited by Jalcide on Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby uarte » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:19 pm

@Jalcide - I hear you, and I have some friends that took Apple's actions (or non-actions) as hard as you did following the Final Cut fiasco. But I respectfully disagree with you about the magnitude of the "betrayal" in this case.

I used to to be a Mac user -- something I don't discuss regularly on this or other forums since it's been such a long time -- and at that long-lost time of yet another Apple "betrayal" I said "never again" to Apple. Well, here I am, back on Macs and totally enjoying them... The problem is not that Apple stopped supporting "pro" users. They didn't. The weren't about to. The problem was that they were so secretive about their plans that they created a PR problem, that many people interpreted as a sign of waning support for pros.

Now, I won't disagree that their support on the surface for pros has became ambiguous, but let's take a look at a few facts:

1) The Mac Pro line of 2009-2012 was and still is pretty dang powerful. If you picked up an 8-core during that time, your music and audio production needs are still being met for almost any type of project requirements, starting with Nehalem CPUs, which initiated the current generations of CPU awesomeness. Those machines run Mavericks beautifully, and run Cubase, Pro Tools, etc., just great. Unless you need to create massive orchestral templates, they will *still* be fine, in which case, you're already looking at VEPro anyway. I've personally benchmarked my Mac Pro 8-core against my much more recent Windows 6-core machine, and it is roughly comparable performance (within about 20%) on average latencies. On low latencies, the Windows 6-core machine will of course smoke the Mac 8-core, but for my types of projects, the 8 core Mac is more than adequate and does surprisingly well at low latencies too with RME hardware/drivers. And I own a business, so I am particular about getting my money's worth. Yes, true that bang for the buck = Windows. However, there's plenty of bang still in the aging Mac Pro platform for most music/audio guys for extremely large projects, no problem, as long as you went 8-core or higher. And again... there's VE Pro when more is needed. And BTW, there's no need to buy the *new* 2013 Mac Pros, at least for now. I expect in an iteration or two, the prices will come down, and things will change yet again. There is plenty of life left in other Macs (older Mac Pros, or current Macbook Pros, high-end iMacs, etc.) for music production to have to go and drop $3000-$9000 on a new 2013 Mac Pro that is more aligned with the video production pros than audio pros at this point. Although, time will tell...

2) Apple was never going to abandon the "Pro" market, although the definition of what "pro" actually means is becoming irrelevant, or at least very blurry with many users. In any case, they were not about to lose their elite cache. They just didn't handle the PR well as they publicly moved heavily into the consumer market. Many people overreacted, including many of my friends, swearing "never again" and here most of them are, still using Macs. You and a few of my friends decided to stick with Windows, and I absolutely understand that reasoning... having done so myself several years ago... before I started switching back after a long absence. :)

3) Intel CPUs made a huge shift in 2009, and the iterations after that were mainly about power/performance ratio as opposed to just purely performance. So what we saw with CPU iterations was that a quad core of today could be slapped in a powerful laptop that competes with Xeon Mac Pros and Windows workstations of yesteryear. That also applies to iMacs and Mac Minis. The gap that emerged with the aging Mac Pro platform was indeed filled with top-of-the-line iMacs. As much as I hate to admit it, and as much as I hate the word "iMac," some of my friends started buying these beautiful 27" iMacs and top-of-the-line Macbook Pros with nice current Core-i7 quad cores and could largely do what I could do on my custom Windows workstations. The CPU performance war has basically ended, in my view! There just isn't a need for *most* composers/producers to get something more powerful than a current-gen quad core i7, a bucketload of RAM and a big SSD. The shift is almost complete, and most pro audio users can easily go that route and get all the power they need. For the fringe cases of people who actually do need more CPU power, there is VE Pro, which is already part of the workflow of many pros. Yes, the pendulum may shift once again for ever-more-greedy CPU-eating plugins, but for now, the CPU war is not that important, as long as you run a recent Core-i7. For those who want to get very technical, they can easily build a much more powerful Windows machine for less money. But we're not talking a vast difference for business owners who look at 2-3year price structures and longer-term hardware investments.

So Apple's slow response on the Mac Pro line really had several things impacting it... Apple's insane secretiveness, poor PR to "pro" users, Intel's shift of focus to power/performance CPU design, the fact that CPUs had basically caught up with pro audio needs somewhere in 2009-2010, and ultimately, a shift in the paradigm of computing anyway.

So in my view "betrayal" is too harsh a word. But I do understand the "sting" of it after so much time and money has been invested and people were left wondering what Apple's real strategy was. This "betrayal" is really a communication problem intersecting with the crossroads of technology trends. Not nearly as dire, at least in retrospect, as many people proclaimed. And keep in mind such levels of "horror" stories can be told over and over again for Avid/Pro Tools users. Talk about platform, strategy, pricing and abandonment issues! :) Trust me, I run Pro Tools here too, and rely on it for business. No one, not even Apple, can come close to the drama with Avid, in my view.

In any case, I definitely do agree with you on some points -- the most important being that I also no longer buy products that are on one platform only! That's a great strategy. All the main apps and plugins I use now are cross-platform. That covers that platform base.

But more importantly, I have finally decided that the term "never again" really can't apply to the technology industries today. This industry -- and the the sub-industry of pro audio companies -- has so many pressures on it, so many changes that sweep through, so many unpredictable variables, that I'll "never again" say "never again." Apple has its share of problems, but so do the other players, and what matters most to me, personally, is just having the right tools to get the job done *today*. If I could, I'd run my whole studio on Linux and be done with Microsoft AND Apple. However, I tried that many times, and I keep fairly current on Linux developments, as well as run a couple of Linux servers, but it just doesn't cut it for pro audio work when all the best plugins, DAW apps, etc., only run on Windows and Macs. What little does run well on Linux is just, frankly, not what my clients want... so I'm stuck with Windows or Macs. :( Practicality and working with clients has trumped my higher ideals. :)

Anyway, I appreciate your point of view. You need the right tools for your projects and peace of mind, and your current configuration works best for you. Best of luck with that, and may our paths cross again! Here's to making great music with all these amazing tools! :)
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Svenne » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:43 pm

Jalcide wrote:Ah yes, the age-old Mac vs PC debate returns and I'm glad.

I'm not. It's a total waste of time. There may have been a time when Macs were better suited than Windows PCs for A/V and graphics work. But that was a long, long, long time ago.

Both OS:es have their pros and cons. Arguing which is better is as futile as arguing about which is the most beautiful colour! It's a personal thing.

The only truth is: Use the OS you feel most comfortable with.

Only be aware that switching OS takes quite a bit of time and effort, so make sure you take the plunge for the right reasons. Is the other OS really "better" or does the grass just look greener on the other side of the fence?

Well, well, well...I guess people will continue this futile argument a hundred years from now. Think about how much time will be wasted. Time that could've been put to much better use, making music.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Freddie H » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:06 pm

Merry Christmas! :D

Best Regards
Freddie
Last edited by Freddie H on Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-Highly developed spirits often encounter resistance from mediocre minds. -It really matters!
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby HarrySound » Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:29 pm

Yeah well each to their own.
I used windows since 1992ish right up until April this year.
I have parallels for Windows 8. Windows 8 is horrible. It's disgusting
(I even have an XBOX One and if thats not crystal clear proof of microsoft completely dropping the ball I don't know what is.)

Windows 7 is a lot better, but after using it for 3-4 years it was depressing.
I don't miss all the problems with Windows and the constant threat of disaster , the fact you need to buy all these 3rd party programs to do simple things like capture desktop video etc etc.
I also think Cubase runs better on Mac, but that might just be me.
I love how I can turn on my CC121 or even my UR28m while in a cubase session and have it recognised. In Windows you have to restart Cubase. Little things like that.....
Also the ability to do hybrid sound card devices is legendary, inputs from your interface and outputs of another interface....if you so please.

I honestly can't think of any benefit Windows has over Mac.
Yeah....i like this green grass! :D
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby uarte » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:02 pm

Hi Freddie, as always, an enthusiastic statement (EDIT: referring to a controversial post which Freddie deleted), which I enjoyed reading. Naturally, I respectfully disagree with you on many of your points, but not for the obvious reasons.

1) In 5-6 years, according to many predictions by people who know a lot more about it than you or I do, the personal computer as we currently know it will radically change -- that applies to both Windows and Macs. A "desktop" operating system of today will be obsolete.

2) However, even those experts can't predict too well what the replacement of current personal computers will look like, although if current predictions hold, it may look something like a cross between an iPad, Kinect/PrimeSense device, Oculus Rift and/or Google Glass. Those same people predicting a radical shift in the industry also completely missed the iPad, Kinect, Oculus Rift and Google Glass! So who really has the answers? I suspect no one in this forum. :)

3) How DAWs will fit into that new paradigm is anyone's guess this far out, but the overall PC picture will be very different than what we have today.

4) #1, #2 and #3 are essentially irrelevant to people who need to make music right now, today, this minute, in 2013. Because your version of 2019 is a long, long, long way away... an eternity in tech land. Current DAW users need to use the best tools available *today* to help them get their projects done *today*.

5) Both Windows and Mac platforms run Cubase beautifully *today*, and I can vouch for that personally. You can get great, professional hardware that run both platforms, so that is not an issue. The choice of platform is a personal preference issue now, no fanboyism is needed on either side... and the performance wars are over, Freddie. You may have missed the memo. A "typical" Windows machine and a "typical" Mac running the same software will produce the same results in the hands of the same person, and performance is no longer a primary issue. Sure, Windows will always win the bang-for-buck equation, and no one is going to argue that you can get a certain % more plugins running on the same cost of Windows machine, but so what? Even a cheap Mac Mini, as humble as some people might think it is, can work miracles in the right hands... including with Cubase. There is no need to bash either platform now.

6) In 5-6 years not only will the entire personal computer landscape change, but so will the DAW software landscape change. I can guarantee that the only DAW developers left standing in 5-6 years will be the ones who are embracing the coming paradigm shifts. The ones that will come out on top will likely be making bold bets and taking some risky moves, and more importantly, they will be AGILE to the coming changes. That's actually why I think Steinberg will still be standing... they've been doing well on mobile and now getting into gesture recognition. That's where UI stuff is headed, according to many predictions, and they're already allocating resources to experiment in those areas. Even if those areas don't pan out, they have invested in and are aware of the coming technologies and trying to be agile. I hope they keep it up. Or Cubase will become the next Opcode Vision.

7) Whatever happens in the future will involve a LOT of change for everyone, not just Mac users, so the best advice someone can give to users in the "here and now" is not to jump on or dump on Windows or Mac, etc... but rather to build a platform-independent workflow and make sure you have a solid strategy to archive older projects/content to a lowest-common-denominator (such as wav stems), so that in 5, 6, 10 years you can still access your projects to some degree or another.

8) In the end, what matters most is the music you are making *now*. Who could have predicted the rapid rise and fall of recent tech trends? The same holds for music technology. But let's not engage in platform bashing. We all use Cubase here, and we all know it's an incredible DAW.

EDIT: This post was in response to Freddie's post which he deleted.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby Wolfie2112 » Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:01 am

Graham_Simmonds wrote:papi61 - my friend from your answers on this forum you seem to enjoy ripping into other people's experience as if it is meaningless and wrong. I am not going to waste my time taking exception to what you wrote but you need to learn some respect. Some of us have been around a long time.


Well said, it's just plain childish and unprofessional.

I really appreciate the input from the other members who have chimed in here, very interesting perspectives on the age old Mac/Windows debate. Nice to know I'm not the only one in the industry who recently moved over to Mac!
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby PeterKorcek » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:12 am

I did not migrate or anything, but for the last couple of weeks Ive been torn between going either all Mac or all PC.
This debate showed me that such a radical decision might be uncalled for, it comes down to personal taste and preference and whats the best working environment for you - the goal is the same I think - creating epic songs :-D

However, you have to prefer one of these systems, currently I for example run my DAW on my custom built PC, recently updated to Windows 8.1, which I find fresh and nice. For other tasks I use my MacBook Pro (plus iPad and iPhone). I realised in order to do serious scoring work it is a good idea to have at least 2 computer setup, so I can't really decide between waiting for new Mac Pro or building again killer PC machine (either way will use VEP5)...

Nevertheless, this debate is interesting as there are many opinions and many of them come from experienced users, but when you reading it, it all comes down to that particular story and reasons that led someone to change the platform or try sth new - that and how do you like to work, in which environment.
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Re: Mac-osx to win7-64 bit migration

Postby dr4kan » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:38 am

HarrySound wrote:I don't miss all the problems with Windows and the constant threat of disaster , the fact you need to buy all these 3rd party programs to do simple things like capture desktop video etc etc.
I also think Cubase runs better on Mac, but that might just be me.
I love how I can turn on my CC121 or even my UR28m while in a cubase session and have it recognised. In Windows you have to restart Cubase. Little things like that.....
Also the ability to do hybrid sound card devices is legendary, inputs from your interface and outputs of another interface....if you so please.


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MR816X, Motu Ultralite, UAD 2, MCU Pro, CC121, Adam A7x, Axiom 49...
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