Cycle Markers Question

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Cycle Markers Question

Postby Keyplayer » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:04 pm

I am apparently misunderstanding the Cycle Marker Function and would like a clarafication from someone here using it correctly.

When I want to rehearse a section of a song for overdubs, making mixing choices, etc., I'd go to the master start and end sections and type in the parameters, say Loop bars 1 - 8 and then hit the cycle icon to activate the loop. This works great, but the down side was remembering to reset the original Left/Right points for the entire song.

So I THOUGHT that being able to insert a cycle marker into the Markers Master List would allow me to just double click that point and activate the cycle icon without having to re-set the master start/end points of the song. Since I can add mutliple cycle markers, this would be a huge time saver for me.

But when I actually tried it, it didn't work. I double clicked (as instructed in the manual) the inserted cycle marker, with its own start and end points set, activated the cycle icon and, when it got to the loop point, it kept right on playing the song to the end. As I was in a hurry to finish my project, I went back to the old way of doing it with the master locate points. But I'd really like to know how to make this feature work, or did I misunderstand it's purpose?
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Rickard » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:46 am

It sounds to me like you set it up correctly. It should work as you intend. I do this for saving multiple mix down possibilities. Anywhere you have set the L-R locators will loop if you activate the loop button and double clicking on a cycle marker should set the locators. There must be something else that is not right.

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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Tumppi Järnefelt » Mon Jan 13, 2014 9:51 am

Have you checked the "sync selection" in the markers?

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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Keyplayer » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:49 am

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:Have you checked the "sync selection" in the markers?

Bye / Tumppi


Yes, I checked "Sync Selection." It's looping BUT it only seems to want to loop 2 bars. Ican't get it to loop a larger section or start right on the bar in question because it keeps going into rehearse mode and starting a bar earlier tham I'd prefer. What else do I have to check/uncheck?
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Tumppi Järnefelt » Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:51 am

Weird. Works for me. Have done it a lot when doing ADR...

Now just a wild guess... Can punch in and out on transport window have anything to do with it?

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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Keyplayer » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:48 pm

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:Weird. Works for me. Have done it a lot when doing ADR...

Now just a wild guess... Can punch in and out on transport window have anything to do with it?

Bye / Tumppi


Possibly, I couldn't get it to do ANYTHING at all until I activated ADR mode. Then I got the 2 bar loop with the one bar lead in for rehearse mode. Could you talk me through how you do it step by step? Thanks
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Keyplayer » Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:57 am

This thing only seems to work in ADR mode. I'm no longer limited to 2 bar sized ranges. But I also don't have a loop. It will give me a one bar intro, play the section (however large) ONCE and then go back to the starting point and then shut off. I had the cycle icon activated so, it SHOULD'VE kept going between the defined start and end points. But it's not following the rules. I get one play and then I have to push the play button again.

Did it act like this in N5.5?
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Keyplayer » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:25 pm

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:Weird. Works for me. Have done it a lot when doing ADR... Bye / Tumppi



So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you can:
Set a project range from Bar 001 - Bar 200
Set up several locate points (Bar 001, Bar 20, Bar 36, Bar 150, etc)
Insert a Cycle Marker with parameters defined as Bar 10 to Bar 20 (WITHOUT CHANGING THE PROJECT SETTINGS OF 1 - 200)
Activate the Cycle Icon in the transport section, hit play on that activated Cycle Marker and it will contiuously loop between bar 10 - 20 even though the Transport Project parameters still say 1 - 200?
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Tumppi Järnefelt » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:16 am

Keyplayer wrote:
Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:Weird. Works for me. Have done it a lot when doing ADR... Bye / Tumppi



So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you can:
Set a project range from Bar 001 - Bar 200
Set up several locate points (Bar 001, Bar 20, Bar 36, Bar 150, etc)
Insert a Cycle Marker with parameters defined as Bar 10 to Bar 20 (WITHOUT CHANGING THE PROJECT SETTINGS OF 1 - 200)
Activate the Cycle Icon in the transport section, hit play on that activated Cycle Marker and it will contiuously loop between bar 10 - 20 even though the Transport Project parameters still say 1 - 200?


I don´t do music so no bars for me (except when I need a drink). I work with timecode.
I have a project. I set up needed cycle markers, add text (the line talent must replace). Have sync selection selected in the markers prefs. Then I can loop what ever cycle marker that is chosen. I choose which cycle marker I want from cycle marker window and start looping...
One question... Does your locators move to the start and end of the chosen loop when you select a loop?

Bye / Tumppi
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Keyplayer » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:11 pm

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:
Keyplayer wrote:
Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:Weird. Works for me. Have done it a lot when doing ADR... Bye / Tumppi



So, if I'm understanding this correctly, you can:
Set a project range from Bar 001 - Bar 200
Set up several locate points (Bar 001, Bar 20, Bar 36, Bar 150, etc)
Insert a Cycle Marker with parameters defined as Bar 10 to Bar 20 (WITHOUT CHANGING THE PROJECT SETTINGS OF 1 - 200)
Activate the Cycle Icon in the transport section, hit play on that activated Cycle Marker and it will contiuously loop between bar 10 - 20 even though the Transport Project parameters still say 1 - 200?


I don´t do music so no bars for me (except when I need a drink). I work with timecode.
I have a project. I set up needed cycle markers, add text (the line talent must replace). Have sync selection selected in the markers prefs. Then I can loop what ever cycle marker that is chosen. I choose which cycle marker I want from cycle marker window and start looping...
One question... Does your locators move to the start and end of the chosen loop when you select a loop?

Bye / Tumppi


Timecode and Bars are the same thing for the purpose of this discussion. Yes, my locators move to the star and end of the selected loop. The big question is do you have to reset the range (Timecode or Bars & Beats) in the transport window in order to create EACH loop? If you do, then both of our systems work the same and the description about the cycle markers is misleading. If you don't then, I am leaving out some kind of step that will make my loops engage in this mode.
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Tumppi Järnefelt » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:37 pm

Hi!
I don´t get this "range" thing? Do you mean time between left and right locators?

When I double click a cycle marker on the timeline it changes the locators to in and out points of that cycle marker and then I can loop...
Here is a screen capture of what it looks like after double clicking cycle marker. Then I just hit play when loop playback is activated.
Bye / Tumppi
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Keyplayer » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:16 pm

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:Hi!
I don´t get this "range" thing? Do you mean time between left and right locators?

When I double click a cycle marker on the timeline it changes the locators to in and out points of that cycle marker and then I can loop...
Here is a screen capture of what it looks like after double clicking cycle marker. Then I just hit play when loop playback is activated.
Bye / Tumppi


Yes, RANGE = The time/bars between the left & right locators.

My screen shot slooks the same as yours when I make a loop, even if I'm not using "inserted cycle mode." But I THINK I've finally figured it out. You tell me if I've got this right now.

1. You must first have a Marker track loaded to make Insert Cycle Mode (ICM) work.
2. The range indicator/L-R Markers WILL CHANGE AT EACH INSERTED CYCLE MARKER.
3. You can NOT overlap ranges (ie: (ICM-1) Bar 50 to 60 (ICM-2) Bars 58 to 72 not possible. But (ICM-1) Bar 50 to 60 with (ICM-2) Bars 72 to 80 will work just fine).
4. When you leave insert cycle mode YOU WILL HAVE TO RESET YOUR END LOCATOR POINT.

If all of the above is correct, then my question has finally been answered.
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Tumppi Järnefelt » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:30 pm

Keyplayer wrote:
Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:Hi!
I don´t get this "range" thing? Do you mean time between left and right locators?

When I double click a cycle marker on the timeline it changes the locators to in and out points of that cycle marker and then I can loop...
Here is a screen capture of what it looks like after double clicking cycle marker. Then I just hit play when loop playback is activated.
Bye / Tumppi


Yes, RANGE = The time/bars between the left & right locators.

My screen shot slooks the same as yours when I make a loop, even if I'm not using "inserted cycle mode." But I THINK I've finally figured it out. You tell me if I've got this right now.

1. You must first have a Marker track loaded to make Insert Cycle Mode (ICM) work.
2. The range indicator/L-R Markers WILL CHANGE AT EACH INSERTED CYCLE MARKER.
3. You can NOT overlap ranges (ie: (ICM-1) Bar 50 to 60 (ICM-2) Bars 58 to 72 not possible. But (ICM-1) Bar 50 to 60 with (ICM-2) Bars 72 to 80 will work just fine).
4. When you leave insert cycle mode YOU WILL HAVE TO RESET YOUR END LOCATOR POINT.

If all of the above is correct, then my question has finally been answered.


What I know:
1. Yes, I always use marker track. Haven´t tried without.
2. L-R locators will change according to cycle marker selection.
3. You can overlap ranges. See another screen shot...
4. Don´t know about that as I just take loop mode off and go on to the next challenge...

Bye / Tumppi
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Tumppi Järnefelt » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:37 pm

Just tested, don´t work without marker track...

Bye / Tumppi
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Keyplayer » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:05 pm

Tumppi Järnefelt wrote:Just tested, don´t work without marker track...

Bye / Tumppi


For my purposes, I WILL HAVE TO OMIT THE MARKER TRACK. If the marker track is inserted into the project the insert marker mode will work. The problem is that, once it's on, you can't turn it off. By that I mean that even though the loop function is off, the locate points keep changing to current location with no end point listed.

Screen shot 1 shows no marker track L/R points go from Bar 003 to Bar 140.
N6 no marker track.jpg
(809.98 KiB) Not downloaded yet


I can jump to any of my 21 locate markers and those parameters will not change.

Screen shot 2 shows the same project with the marker track inserted. Note that the cycle icon is not activated. Yet, when I select a locate point (in this case Bar 31), both of my L/R markers now say Bar 31.
N6 with marker track.jpg
(766.27 KiB) Not downloaded yet


My end marker of Bar 1401 is now gone. Since you can't de-activate a marker track (as you can with an audio or MIDI track), my only option is to leave the track out and only insert it when I need to activate any of the cycle points.

It sure would've been nice to have those factors listed in the manual. Anyway, the mstery is now solved. Thanks so much for your help! :mrgreen:
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Tumppi Järnefelt » Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:36 am

What if you de-select sync selection. Then timeline won´t follow cycle markers list and the other way around...
And you can have multiple marker tracks. That might be useful to you.
I can´t really follow why you need to have range from start to end "on" all the time? But if you do why not make a cycle marker from start to finish. This way you can select it always when need to have that range covered.
And insert also all the needed cycle markers you need for recording etc. Cycle markers can overlap each other.

BTW I do always a start marker for my projects. This way I can jump there when ever I need. And I make another for two pop. And to start of every scene named accordingly.
I find it very useful to be able to jump to different locations this way in a project.
Then I divide the main edit window to two so that only marker track and possibly a guide track stay always on top of the screen. Excellent IMO.
I could not live without marker tracks. In big projects I have several marker tracks. One for each character so when doing ADR I can just select what marker track is needed that moment.

Bye / Tumppi
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Bassman » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:57 pm

I work with cycle marker only in my (music) projects.

All different song structures have a separat cycle marker, like intro, bridge, ...

If I hit "SPACE, song run from actual pointer position. For play a loop (e.g. refrain 1) , I mark related cycle marker and hit "P". For "P"-key command, I have made a macro, a la: select events, songpointer left, loop on, play ... or something like that (I'm not in front of my DAW). For play whole song from beginning to end, I have another macro on key command "STRG+Space", a la: select all, songpointer left (begin), loop off, play ...

For export the whole song use these keycommands + a export macro. Macros are magic ;o)

Don't know if it helps you.
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Re: Cycle Markers Question

Postby Lydiot » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:43 pm

I sent you a pm keyplayer...
Please PM for conversation.
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