7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

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7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:20 am

Hi,

I´m experiencing some hefty peaking in 7.5. Please check the video for details: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx-FlOe8qWA

I have contacted Spectrasonics and they have checked in different DAW´s to see if it´s Omnisphere or this patch, but it´s not, so they think it´s Cubase related.

I tried turning off and on hyper threading and asio guard, but that doesn´t help.

Any suggestions?

Kind regards,

Charles
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby plectrumboy » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:04 pm

That seems really weird. It's difficult to imagine what general setting in a computer or DAW setup would cause such a specific problem with one synth patch. Your signature says you're using Windows 7 and your video looks like you've turned off visual effects in Windows. Have you tried changing this back to 'let Windows decide what's best'? Have you got up to date graphic drivers?

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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Tue Dec 31, 2013 3:45 pm

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, I found that weird too. I assumed - since it´s one specific patch soo far and the problem doesn´t occur when I turn off one of the two sound sources - it must have have been Omnisphere, but apparantly not.

I´ve switched the visual effects back on, but that doesn´t help unfortunately. I thought turning those off is supposed to save CPU power though? Graphic drivers are up to date...
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Keith99 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:03 pm

Could it be the patch loading a specific sample file that is corrupted / fragmented or something?
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:43 pm

Hi Keith, thanks.

No, I´ve tried opening a new instance of Omnisphere and loaded that one sample from the sound sources and it plays fine.

It must have something to do with the modulation going on and the way Cubase reponds to it? I´ve tried muting all the modulation going on and that reduces the peaking.

Can anyone who´s on a PC and has Omnisphere please try to see if he/she experiences the same thing? The patch is called "Organic Rhodes Chill". To me it happens in Cubase 7 as well. That might narrow things down further.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:13 pm

Anyone?
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Smedberg » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:07 pm

charlesvk wrote:Can anyone who´s on a PC and has Omnisphere please try to see if he/she experiences the same thing? The patch is called "Organic Rhodes Chill". To me it happens in Cubase 7 as well. That might narrow things down further.


I notice a huge load on this preset, much higher than any other.
Occationally it goes up to 50% when the rest is around 5-10...
i7 2600, 16 gb ram, w64, cubase 7,5
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby plectrumboy » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:56 pm

charlesvk wrote:Hi Steve,
I´ve switched the visual effects back on, but that doesn´t help unfortunately. I thought turning those off is supposed to save CPU power though? Graphic drivers are up to date...

I think you'll find different opinions about this - I've gone with the argument that says if you let Windows decide and it decides to run some or all of the visual effects, then this graphics load will be taken by your graphics card, with the perhaps unexpected outcome that your CPU has more power available for other tasks (such as Cubase).

Smedberg wrote:I notice a huge load on this preset, much higher than any other.
Occationally it goes up to 50% when the rest is around 5-10...

That's just baffling - at least two Omnisphere users having this one anomaly with one patch. Wouldn't it be interesting to know whether Spectrasonics have had a number of similar queries, and if so whether they are solely from Cubase users.

Steve.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby tex » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:05 pm

hi tried it and no spikes. mind you I have my audio (motu) set in the control panel to 44.1, 1024 buffer and "use wave RT for windows audio" ticked. I ticked this a long time ago instead of " use stereo pairs for windows audio" after I was getting crazy spikes all over the place. it seems to do the job...... so far not a single spike. im not over technical minded so... it may work for you, just dont know what the difference in sound quality etc. seems fine to me and my buddies though
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Brad Mize » Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:26 pm

Are you talking abou the VST Performance meter in Cubase or the meter in teh top right corner of Omnisphere?
I'm getting a higher reading than normal compared to other patches in Omnisphere but neither of my meters are going over 50%.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:04 pm

Hi,

@Smedberg: Thanks for trying and letting me know.

@Steve: Well I´m no expert on this. What you say makes perfectly good sense to me too. Unfortunately neither setting helps me here.

Yes, I hope there are some others users who are willing to try this too and let me know.

@tex: Thanks. Tried it but damn, that didn´t work for me.

@ Brad: Thanks. The meter in Cubase.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby bugishcompany » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:35 pm

This is completely 100% cubase related.

I did a 3day testing and compared cubase performance vs logic/ableton/protools/s1 and posted all data, specs, pics and hardware but steinberg removed the thread.

Im pretty sure they know this but will never acknowledge it.

Also:
People who dont use vstis will not see this problem, which is about 70% of this forum.
All they do is record some guitars/ vocals and think the app is perfect.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby delta » Mon Jan 06, 2014 6:12 pm

'but steinberg removed the thread'

it's here:

viewtopic.php?f=198&t=51997&p=317438#p317438
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:19 am

Hi,

@Bugishcompany: I saw your comparison with Studio 1, not any of the other DAW´s you mentioned, but I tried using the patch in PT11 and there was no problem there whatsoever. With your experience and mine, combined with that of the people at Spectrasonics, and probably other users as well, I guess it´s pretty save to say Cubase performs very bad on this point. Which is crazy!

A reaction from Steinberg would be appreciated: Can we expect better VST Performance?
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby smapmap » Thu Jan 09, 2014 11:59 pm

Seeing very similar problems here - the average load is spiking badly - and then maxing out for minutes at a time even when not playing - weirdly enough the real-time load is nowhere near this so not sure how the average can be higher? Anyway haven't noticed much in the way of dropouts - until this evening when I've had a few. Runs on 7.06 no problem. Think there is a bug in there somewhere. Other than this 7.5 has been ace.
Software: Cubase 7.5.20, Komplete 9, Sonar X2a, Alloy 2, Trash 2, Ozone 5, Fabfilter Timeless 2, Fabfilter Saturn, Valhalla Room, Lounge Lizard 4, Tassman 4, Kontakt 5, Reaktor 5, Guitar Rig 5, Z3ta 2, Z3ta+, Dimension Pro, Rapture, BFD3, Studio Drummer 3, Sonitus Plugs

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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby indiescore » Sat Jan 11, 2014 2:09 am

I am noticing the same issue here with VST perf. spikes, now resulting in audio clipping, redline.........I checked task manager and the CPU is running around 5-35%. my settings are 48KHZ 1024 buffer, PC i7 chip 3rd gen, 32 gigs memory. SSD and usb 3 drives run majority of plug ins.

I am noticing it now because I am building a big template in prep for a score, so ramping up with 7 instances of omnisphere, about 4 x Kontakt 5's, and an assortment of other Vst's, about 25 total ........about 100 midi tracks + audio tracks to mirror...........

also getting some bad behavior with an omnisphere exception error when I close a project, however my memory usage is under 50%..........spectrasonics support had no more to offer than re-install the latest plug in update, delete old DLL I will need to call them back.

So as much as I like the new features, this engine does seems to have a bug, as a long time Cubase user, this version is the most unstable in my studio environment when under the pressure of large projects.
John

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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby bugishcompany » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:19 am

I think we all just have to wait and hope for steinberg to optimize the new vsti engine and the asio-guard.
Theres nothing else we can do, I've tried to raise some eyebrows around here but no response from any official.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby smapmap » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:49 pm

I've done a bit more digging on this - I noticed when I opened the project in 7.0.6 I still saw the spiking. This made me thin kit may not be 7.5 related after all - coincidence maybe?

I fired up the instrument rack in 7.5 and disabled BFD3. The CPU meter immediately went back to normal. I've reinserted BFD 3 into the project and it the performance meter is behaving as expected again.

Also noticed a lot of quick controls had been automatically set up somehow for Battery and BFD3. Removed them as a precaution. Fingers crossed its OK again.

Not 7.5 related.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby eivind » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:29 pm

I find this thread interesting. I have similar - but not severe - problems with the play64-plugin (EastWest sample-playback engine, suing Symphonic Orchestra Gold, RA and Goliath libraries). I get spikes when clicking into the project during playback. I.e. a mouse-click translates into a digital spike.


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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby indiescore » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:03 pm

eivind wrote:I find this thread interesting. I have similar - but not severe - problems with the play64-plugin (EastWest sample-playback engine, suing Symphonic Orchestra Gold, RA and Goliath libraries). I get spikes when clicking into the project during playback. I.e. a mouse-click translates into a digital spike.


Win7-64bit, Cubase 7.5, 12gb RAM, intel quad core thingy(i7), EMU1616M


I should mention that I too am getting spikes and or digital audio popping when clicking on midi tracks in the piano view, it's almost sounds like an electrical short or grounding issue, so strange and not very comforting when your in a large project. I haven't tried to sort through plug ins , but many of us seem to have the same ones,and I doubt it's plug in driven, it appeared with c7 .5. We might want a new thread on this
John

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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Anando » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:22 pm

eivind wrote:I have similar - but not severe - problems with the play64-plugin

Ok, now we are three ;) (viewtopic.php?p=327983#p327983)
I get ASIO spikes when loading the latest version of Play (4.1.5 ), using the internal iGPU intel Graphics (HD4000) and then hovering with the mouse over GUI-Elements. Could be a combination of Play, Cubase and intel graphics drivers. I'm still investigating. May I ask if you have a similar configuration?
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Elektrobolt » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:58 pm

So I built a new computer just before x-mas (giving me some time to get used to new hardware over the holidays), and I had some issues "with Cubase" too. However, after some BIOS tweaking and a bit of fooling around Windows 8.1 settings, things are now as good as my other computers running Cubase. Mostly 64-bit stuff, with some older 32-bit plugins.

Now please, I am not saying that Cubase is not a resource hog, but in my experience, I have been able to optimize my systems (ALL of them) so that Cubase works "as I expect it to work". That does not mean that some other DAW couldn't do more than Cubase, run more plugins, whatever, I wouldn't know, because I only use Cubase, but I use it every day.

This is not an argument against the patch issue within Omnisphere at all, and since I don't use it, there is nothing I can say about it, but there is obviously an issue somewhere, in Cubase, OR in Omnisphere, perhaps even both. No one seems to know anything concrete as to what the actual cause is. However, keep talking about the issue, and someone is bound to search for it. I would be surprised if Steinberg isn't already looking into this.

People tend to digress (like me now) on topics and it often splits into "all these issues" (because people ARE experiencing things, whatever the cause). So I would rename the title to something like "Omnisphere/Cubase specific patch performance issue" to try and keep people to the topic. As the title stands now ("7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?") it really is an invitation to anyone to speak about their VST Performance issues (like me) in general.

Anyways, just my humble opinions.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby wcb123 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:26 pm

Im experiencing same issue.

viewtopic.php?f=181&t=53954
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Freddie H » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:58 pm

charlesvk wrote:Hi,

I´m experiencing some hefty peaking in 7.5. Please check the video for details: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx-FlOe8qWA

I have contacted Spectrasonics and they have checked in different DAW´s to see if it´s Omnisphere or this patch, but it´s not, so they think it´s Cubase related.

I tried turning off and on hyper threading and asio guard, but that doesn´t help.

Any suggestions?

Kind regards,

Charles



Same abnormality here too with Omnisphere! +1
***************

By the way, why is AERO disabled on your computer so it looks like ugly as Windows 95?
I'm pretty sure you are not using windows 95 from year 1995, right? :roll:

Has anyone told you its good idea to disable AERO? Its not, its a very bad idea. :)
Instead of using the GPU on the graphic card you use the CPU running all graphic-
And not just that, you are very likely to get all sort of errors, abnormal graphic errors + direct API calls that doesn't work because you have disabled AERO.


Activate AERO. Windows, Cubase, programs and plugins needs it to be on to work correctly.


Best regards
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby wcb123 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:14 pm

Freddie H wrote:
charlesvk wrote:Hi,

I´m experiencing some hefty peaking in 7.5. Please check the video for details: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx-FlOe8qWA

I have contacted Spectrasonics and they have checked in different DAW´s to see if it´s Omnisphere or this patch, but it´s not, so they think it´s Cubase related.

I tried turning off and on hyper threading and asio guard, but that doesn´t help.

Any suggestions?

Kind regards,

Charles



Same abnormality here too with Omnisphere! +1
***************

By the way, why is AERO disabled on your computer so it looks like ugly as Windows 95?
I'm pretty sure you are not using windows 95 from year 1995, right? :roll:

Has anyone told you its good idea to disable AERO? Its not, its a very bad idea. :)
Instead of using the GPU on the graphic card you use the CPU running all graphic-
And not just that, you are very likely to get all sort of errors, abnormal graphic errors + direct API calls that doesn't work because you have disabled AERO.


Activate AERO. Windows, Cubase, programs and plugins needs it to be on to work correctly.


Best regards
Freddie



Im pretty sure Steinberg suggest minimising Windows OS graphics in their optimisation article.
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Memory - 48Gb
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