Please drop the x32bit versions of all your new softwares.

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Please drop the x32bit versions of all your new softwares.

Postby Freddie H » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:11 pm

Please drop the x32bit versions of all your new softwares.

All programmers can concentrate on making x64bit softwares only.
If you think about it "why they should end it", its not a bad idea! We have no need of any x32bit softwares anymore. ;)

You would get = less bugs + more time for the programmers apply new features instead of address backward and x32bit compatibility.


Best Regards
Freddie
Last edited by Freddie H on Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby iBM » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:41 am

Freddie H wrote:Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Concentrate all programmers on making x64bit softwares only.
No need to have any x32bit softwares at all. And those that don't know better and still use x32 Cubase should use the x64 version instead.



Best Regards
Freddie

+1
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby Elektrobolt » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:25 am

Freddie H wrote:Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Concentrate all programmers on making x64bit softwares only.
No need to have any x32bit softwares at all. And those that don't know better and still use x32 Cubase should use the x64 version instead.

+1
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby trashdinner » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:53 am

I was thinking of a 64bit cubase that can run 32 and 64 bit plugins like Bitwig!! The plugins run independently from the DAW so it's also a plugin crash protection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwekCqQT-t8
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby distante » Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:00 am

trashdinner wrote:I was thinking of a 64bit cubase that can run 32 and 64 bit plugins like Bitwig!! The plugins run independently from the DAW so it's also a plugin crash protection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwekCqQT-t8

Cool stuff
Last edited by distante on Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby Hooksound » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:48 am

Hello.

It's a very bad idea to drop the 32 bit version. Both from a technical and marketing p.o.v.

Technical: A lot of users still relies on older plugs and discontinued systems like e.g. Focusrite LiquidMix, TC Electronic PowerCore. There are no 64 bit versions of these.

Marketing: Grumpy users because of the above mentioned statements. I would definitely be one of them.

AVID did it with Pro Tools 11 and AAX. Steinberg, please do not make the same mistake.
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby Elektrobolt » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:17 am

trashdinner wrote:I was thinking of a 64bit cubase that can run 32 and 64 bit plugins like Bitwig!! The plugins run independently from the DAW so it's also a plugin crash protection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwekCqQT-t8

Yes, very cool indeed, especially for people that want to continue using plugs from the olden golden era.
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby Freddie H » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:50 pm

Hooksound wrote:Hello.

It's a very bad idea to drop the 32 bit version. Both from a technical and marketing p.o.v.

Technical: A lot of users still relies on older plugs and discontinued systems like e.g. Focusrite LiquidMix, TC Electronic PowerCore. There are no 64 bit versions of these.

Marketing: Grumpy users because of the above mentioned statements. I would definitely be one of them.

AVID did it with Pro Tools 11 and AAX. Steinberg, please do not make the same mistake.



What AVID did its not a mistake. Its the best move they have done in a along time.
The big mistake were those that get fooled into buying x32bit technology like Focusrite LiquidMix, TC Electronic PowerCore and UAD1.

Focusrite LiquidMix will never go x64bit and has been drop by Focusrite completely.
TC Electronic PowerCore will never go x64bit either, in early 2011, it were decided to cease all further development of the PowerCore product range.

So you are saying that Steinberg need to continue build into this old and outdate x32bit technology softwares and hold back all possible new features that would only work if you build a x64 version only; that can't be accomplished in x32bit version too, because you still want to use your old Focusrite LiquidMix, TC Electronic PowerCore? Get real!




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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby BriHar » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:18 pm

Let's not forget that those who need to use older/discontinued plugins can similarly retain an older version of Cubase (e.g. 6.5) concurrent with the current version for this purpose!
...yes I think it can be easily done, just take everything down to Highway 61.

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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby iBM » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:28 pm

Besides that, Avid announced it 2 years ahead (success in my book, and they have "forced" plugin vendors to go 64-bit). Here is where Steinberg has something to learn IMO, as they have a tendency to drop news like that on release day.

Give us heads up in advance, get rid of "old" technology (only takes focus away from current important issues), and the noise will be at a minimum (didn't take long before we forgot the Direct-X plugin format).

So Cubase 8/Nuendo 7 should get rid of the x32 versions IMHO (those who have not embraced the 64-bit technology by now can blame themselfs - I know it hurts to get rid of fav plugins, but you soon will find new ones :-))
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby TheNavigator » Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:20 pm

+1

The 32 bit days are over, time to drop the legacy stuff and move on.
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby trashdinner » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:45 pm

guys, why not just get the plugins to run seperately from the DAW? Plugin crash won't result to DAW crash, it will be easy to find witch plugin is crashing, we will be able to run 64bit and 32bit plugins in the same session ... what's the downside?? why drop it when you can do that?
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby CubeDAW » Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:22 am

They give you the option to install either or both. What's the problem?
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby BriHar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:52 am

CubeDAW wrote:They give you the option to install either or both. What's the problem?
You're missing the point! ;)

Preserving backwards compatibility hinders progress! Bloats the software - increasing installation and download times; adds unnecessary complexity to the program increasing runtimes and the introduction of bugs and other issues.
Backwards compatibility and support for older technologies is necessary and to be expected over a couple of generations, but at some point you have to let it go.
A good point was made earlier in regard to Direct X - back at the time this was dropped there was a huge outcry - we survived, and haven't looked back. How many people still swear by VCR (try and find a player).
...yes I think it can be easily done, just take everything down to Highway 61.

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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby TheNavigator » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:57 am

Exactly. And it hinders the adaption of 64 bit by those slackers and whiners who can't get over a little malinvestment they did years ago.
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby Elektrobolt » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:36 am

Right on! There are already too many obstacles in the way of progress.

The same concern existed for the 8-16 and 16-32 scenarios, and we're still here so I guess it worked. :)
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby trashdinner » Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:53 am

the problem for me is that when I open a 32 bit session in 64 bit cubase, some stuff are messed up and it doesn't sounds the same (and I'm not talking about plugins) Some panning are not kept and it just mess up the whole session. I started migrating to 64 bits but since I compose a whole lot of songs and ideas (I have around 200 atm) 1 session out of 3 are messed up :S
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby AstronautDown » Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:39 pm

Freddie H wrote:Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares. Concentrate all programmers on making x64bit softwares only. No need to have any x32bit softwares at all.


+1

Amen, brother! 32-bit, good riddance!
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby Steve Reaver » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:14 am

It would be an extremely BAD idea to drop the x32 bit version. There are still many plugs that do not play correctly with x64. Personally I still use x32 bit and see no real reason to change, and besides it's not a big deal to keep the two versions going.
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby distante » Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:56 am

Since I updated my system to 64bits, I don't let my self install any of my old 32bits plugs.. But really just for the sake of a stable Cubase.
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby BriHar » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:43 pm

Steve Reaver wrote:It would be an extremely BAD idea to drop the x32 bit version. There are still many plugs that do not play correctly with x64. Personally I still use x32 bit and see no real reason to change, and besides it's not a big deal to keep the two versions going.

http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=182&t=54088&view=unread#p330806
http://www.steinberg.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=182&t=54088&view=unread#p331050
...yes I think it can be easily done, just take everything down to Highway 61.

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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby Hooksound » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:15 pm

Freddie H wrote:
Hooksound wrote:Hello.

It's a very bad idea to drop the 32 bit version. Both from a technical and marketing p.o.v.

Technical: A lot of users still relies on older plugs and discontinued systems like e.g. Focusrite LiquidMix, TC Electronic PowerCore. There are no 64 bit versions of these.

Marketing: Grumpy users because of the above mentioned statements. I would definitely be one of them.

AVID did it with Pro Tools 11 and AAX. Steinberg, please do not make the same mistake.



What AVID did its not a mistake. Its the best move they have done in a along time.
The big mistake were those that get fooled into buying x32bit technology like Focusrite LiquidMix, TC Electronic PowerCore and UAD1.

Focusrite LiquidMix will never go x64bit and has been drop by Focusrite completely.
TC Electronic PowerCore will never go x64bit either, in early 2011, it were decided to cease all further development of the PowerCore product range.

So you are saying that Steinberg need to continue build into this old and outdate x32bit technology softwares and hold back all possible new features that would only work if you build a x64 version only; that can't be accomplished in x32bit version too, because you still want to use your old Focusrite LiquidMix, TC Electronic PowerCore? Get real!




Best Regards
Freddie


Hey Freddie.

I have used Cubase Studio 4 and Pro Tools M-Powered for many years. I got kind of real some months ago, and the choice was between upgrading to Cubase 7 or Pro Tools 11 respectively. I chose Cubase, because it offered the 32 bit option, allowing me to run with both old and new plugs. If I had chosen Pro Tools 11, it would have cost more from start plus I would have been "forced" to buy a Waves WUP, a McDSP upgrade and a WaveArts upgrade. Kind of unnecessary costs. So, from a marketing p.o.v. Steinberg delivered what I needed and AVID did not. My personal guess is that AVID is losing hobbyists and semi-pro customers on this account and this could actually be part of their strategy, but it sure isn't part of mine.

Furthermore, just because products are discontinued, they still represent value and has become a stable part of ones workflow. So there is no logical reason to dump them.

Out of curiosity, it would be nice if you could mention some of the new features, which are held back due to the lack of a 64 bit only version. Such examples are missing completely in this thread.
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby Hooksound » Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:44 pm

BriHar wrote:
CubeDAW wrote:They give you the option to install either or both. What's the problem?
You're missing the point! ;)

Preserving backwards compatibility hinders progress! Bloats the software - increasing installation and download times; adds unnecessary complexity to the program increasing runtimes and the introduction of bugs and other issues.
Backwards compatibility and support for older technologies is necessary and to be expected over a couple of generations, but at some point you have to let it go.
A good point was made earlier in regard to Direct X - back at the time this was dropped there was a huge outcry - we survived, and haven't looked back. How many people still swear by VCR (try and find a player).


The VCR -> DVD evolution was accepted because it provided a giant leap in video and audio quality, media handling etc. DAWs in 32 vs. 64 bits might boost performance and resource availability, but there's absolutely no increase in audio quality.
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby distante » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:07 pm

Hooksound wrote:My personal guess is that AVID is losing hobbyists and semi-pro customers (...)


Actually, I don't find this as a bad thing, there is a marketing point of view and a sales point of view.

One gets influenced by the other, but really usually the ones that are willing to pay for, are non hobbyists
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Do you want to show your music or any audio work made with Cubase? fb.com/groups/Made.With.Cubase/

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Scarlett 2i2 and Cubase 7 on Windows 8.1 ( Laptop 64bits system )
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Re: Drop the x32bit versions of all your softwares.

Postby Freddie H » Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:16 pm

Hooksound wrote:
Out of curiosity, it would be nice if you could mention some of the new features, which are held back due to the lack of a 64 bit only version. Such examples are missing completely in this thread.



Well, making and program everything twice, on a product that hardly anyone will use would be enough of reasons to drop x32bit support. Today x32bit is only problems no benefits.

The original code of all programs like Cubase, KONTAKT, MASSIVE, WAVELAB, Word, games are always made and programmed in x64bit
. That's the "real program" code. Then later, they try to make it work in x32bit environment too. They sometimes come to the conclusions that they need to drop new features because it doesn't work in x32bit environments too.


Here is some real comments from programmers daily life.

Hi.
I actually ran into this problem just earlier this week, and it took me a while to figure out. The problem originated in a third party assembly that loaded fine into studio, worked great in unit testing(since the tests run inside VS*32), but failed horribly while running the application. I've checked the third party assembly with reflector, and it doesn't have any calls to unmanaged code; beats me why they decided to target x86 on it.
I've got a problem in that my solution is large, consisting of some 16 projects that are fairly heavily intertwined. Is there any way to have a project that can call a x86 targeted dll while still being loadable by a 64 bit application, or do I need to convert my entire solution to x86?

I'm just having problems debugging it since my development box is in 64bit.
**************
Now all this is somewhat academic given that .Net 3.5 SP1 is included in Windows 7, but for those doing XP or Vista deployments, it's going to be another little annoyance to deal with.
***********************************


If you're doing CLR code on platforms as diverse as Intel and ARM, then you've got bigger issues if you're sharing unmanaged code also.

...but on a 64-bit machine there's two CLRs...sn for 32-bit only works for that CLR. But, TOTALLY agreed, it's confusing.
*******

debugging managed ASP.NET applications on 64-bit. If you attempt to attach to the web server process to debug your managed code, Visual Studio may assume you want to debug the native 64-bit code first an throw a weird error at you because the code is in x32.

****************
One other thing worth mentioning is that there are multiple GAC's on x64. This was a gotcha for me when I had a third-party binary that required me to compile in x86 I didn't realize that there was a separate GAC for x86 and x64.

*************************
"If you have 100% type safe managed code then you really can just copy it to the 64-bit platform and run it successfully under the 64-bit CLR."
If you do that, you're golden. Moving right along.

If only it were that true. It all pre-supposes that any .NET assembly added to the mix is also 32/64-bit transparent. I'm currently dealing with this issue with IBM's Informix drivers for .NET. The 64-bit doesn't quite register itself properly and so you end up having to link directly to it thus causing issues for a 32-bit only user.
********

My application refers Visual C redists like msvcr80.dll at runtime. Do I need to have two separate codebases for x86 and x64?
******
x86 to x64 conversion headaches: the method of passing p/Invoke parameters changed with the x64 CLR.
***************************************







Well, I'm not an expert regarding programming x64bit code and DSP coding but I know for example making of new "x 64 bit double precision audio-engine" that are based on x64bit program coeds only.
That is one of the main reason why AVID drop the x32bit version because their new build of "x64 Audio-engine" build.

Graphic and scale functions in x64 program code and environment only.
How many "games" support x32bit today? None!
Many functions and technologies are not even supported in x32 environments!

Audio processing feature and handling use of improved x64bit codes and algorithm. I'm sure there are even more examples.




Yes please drop 32bit...like yesterday. I think all the Steinberg programmers would agreed applauded me by saying this.
Their and our life's would be much easier, less bugs if they drop all 32bit builds. ;)


Best Regards
Freddie
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