7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:47 pm

Im pretty sure Steinberg suggest minimising Windows OS graphics in their optimisation article.


I´m pretty sure I read it there too, so that´s why.

Please let SB comment on this.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby More Cowbell » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:22 pm

Since win7 aero should be on! Tweaks had it use for xp. Win7 works in a other way.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:32 pm

OK.

Nevertheless, the VST performance peaks remain!
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:36 am

No-one from SB around?
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Fabio Bartolini » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:23 am

Hello,

I recently did some extensive tests on performance peaks and eventually reproduced something very similar on my home rig. Tried all kind of audio and video-card drivers combinations as well as disabling / enabling Windows services, the only thing I didn't touch is the BIOS which was already set up the way I want it.

The problem was solved reverting back to an older driver for the video-card - I have a Radeon HD 6570 and all 13.x drivers would yield the same result. Driver 12.10 brought performance back to normality, no more spikes.

I have a couple reports that using older drivers also solved the same issue with nVidia cards.

Not saying it will surely help those who posted here, but it is worth trying.

Kind regards,
Fabio Bartolini, Steinberg Tech Support
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

Check out Steinberg on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook!
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby SteveInChicago » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:04 pm

Fabio Bartolini wrote:I recently did some extensive tests on performance peaks and eventually reproduced something very similar on my home rig. Tried all kind of audio and video-card drivers combinations as well as disabling / enabling Windows services, the only thing I didn't touch is the BIOS which was already set up the way I want it.

Wow. Above and beyond service. Way to go Fabio.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Dave » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:19 pm

I'll take a look at this as I my system was fine and I have just stated getting this prob. I found disabling steinberg power management helped but I recall I have recently updated my graphics driver on my nvidea card, so perhaps there's a link there.

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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:22 pm

Thanks, will check it too.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Mrhehon » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:27 pm

SteveInChicago wrote:
Fabio Bartolini wrote:I recently did some extensive tests on performance peaks and eventually reproduced something very similar on my home rig. Tried all kind of audio and video-card drivers combinations as well as disabling / enabling Windows services, the only thing I didn't touch is the BIOS which was already set up the way I want it.

Wow. Above and beyond service. Way to go Fabio.


+1
Bet you don't get that on the pro tools forum.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Anando » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:28 pm

Fabio Bartolini wrote:I have a couple reports that using older drivers also solved the same issue with nVidia cards.

Using an old driver from 2012 for Intel's on chip HD Graphics (iGPU HD3000/4000) fixed some VST performance spikes here, too. Only got spikes in Cubase 7.5 when an instance of East West's PLAY 4.1 engine was loaded, though.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby madfiddler » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:30 am

Fabio Bartolini wrote:Hello,

I recently did some extensive tests on performance peaks and eventually reproduced something very similar on my home rig. Tried all kind of audio and video-card drivers combinations as well as disabling / enabling Windows services, the only thing I didn't touch is the BIOS which was already set up the way I want it.

The problem was solved reverting back to an older driver for the video-card - I have a Radeon HD 6570 and all 13.x drivers would yield the same result. Driver 12.10 brought performance back to normality, no more spikes.

I have a couple reports that using older drivers also solved the same issue with nVidia cards.

Not saying it will surely help those who posted here, but it is worth trying.

Kind regards,


I did the same thing at the beginning of last week, I have the HD5450 and rolled back to 2011 drivers (12.10 I believe) and this resolved the main issues. I still get peaking for no apparent reason, but not in to the red any where near as much.

(this is with V7.06 btw)

m
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Outsounder » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:06 pm

This was posted in another forum but here it is again, cubase meters were bouncing up 80/90 % (win7 64 bit) on quite a template/project here, using multiple instances of kontakt, play, Best service engine sampler, nexus and padshop with a raft of waves/lexicon and other plugins, after doing the following tweaks, same project now down to about 20% on the meters.

Disable on board sound in bios (or jumpers on some mobo).
Disable HD sound (some pc's use this to send a headphone signal to front panel and stereo/surround sound to hdmi or other outs)
Disable all sound playback/record using win control panel, (except the device your using)

In the bios also look for these (or similar named settings) and turn them off.

Intel EIST
Intel C State
C1E Support
Overspeed Protection
Hyperthreading
Execute Bit Support
Set Limit CPUID MaxVal to 3 (maybe not so important)
Intel Virtual Tech
Intel VT-d Tech

Won't be exactly the same wordings on differing motherboards but well worth doing (don't forget to save the settings on bios exit)

Hope it helps
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby charlesvk » Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:42 pm

@ Outlander: Thanks, will try that. In your thread "Opinion after 7 days with Cubase 7..." I see some screenshots you´ve posted of the VST performance. If I´m not mistaking you use Windows Classic visual settings. Any comment on whether or not to use that too, since that is also a discussion here?
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby mroekalea » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:15 pm

Hello,

I recently did some extensive tests on performance peaks and eventually reproduced something very similar on my home rig. Tried all kind of audio and video-card drivers combinations as well as disabling / enabling Windows services, the only thing I didn't touch is the BIOS which was already set up the way I want it.

The problem was solved reverting back to an older driver for the video-card - I have a Radeon HD 6570 and all 13.x drivers would yield the same result. Driver 12.10 brought performance back to normality, no more spikes.

I have a couple reports that using older drivers also solved the same issue with nVidia cards.

Not saying it will surely help those who posted here, but it is worth trying.

Kind regards


You can easily proof such a situation by running "perfmon.exe" (windows only) and measure DPC counters. DPC means it measures the interupts of hardware and software and other hardware waitstates which causes such behaviour as performance problems and audio dropouts.

I came up with this after weeks of performance analyses on Windows SQL server installation, there was apparently a performance issue but not explainable by workload of the users or batch jobs. So I recorded any meanfull counter during work-hours and discovered that the server in question compared with other servers that de DPC numbers where very high. When looking for DPC counters in performance monitor you easily see that DPC counters are available for network card, video cards and some other PCI devices.

Good luck with that! 8-)
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Fabio Bartolini » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:48 pm

Hello,

thank you.

I use both perfmon.exe and LatencyMon, which I find very useful, and often ask the users to run those tests.
But in the case above I was trying to reproduce the problems some users are reporting, not trying to solve problems on my system... kind of trying to cause problems :D

We are trying to find which changes in recent drivers builds can lead to GUI-related instability, so that this can be minimised.

Cheers,
Fabio Bartolini, Steinberg Tech Support
Steinberg Media Technologies GmbH
Hamburg, Germany

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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Outsounder » Sun Feb 02, 2014 2:48 am

charlesvk wrote:@ Outlander: Thanks, will try that. In your thread "Opinion after 7 days with Cubase 7..." I see some screenshots you´ve posted of the VST performance. If I´m not mistaking you use Windows Classic visual settings. Any comment on whether or not to use that too, since that is also a discussion here?


LOL Well spotted! Yes Windows "Classic" look is ever present here! Starts off with the optimize for efficiency in the system setting, chose a simple color desk top because it's surprising aw many CPU cycles can be used to just maintain a desktop image!

But really,just choosing a windows classic feel and smaller items for the start button at a lower font size and other tweaks is far more appealing (and easier/quicker to work on!) here anyway! Mostly because silent (no fan) graphics card needs to take care of whats on screen in a non game environment. So whats the point of having everything set up and tweaked/overclocked to perform as an all singing, all dancing DAW whilst, at the same time, allowing games to get priority on a system that doesn't play games?

Its all matter of taste and preferences, though if it's a (exclusive) DAW machines, it should be set up as one, yes?

There are lot of other tweaks that can be done, for sample, going through your start-up programs. do you really need to have all then loaded? Check the system services that are running, do you really want auto checks and updates running in the background?No of course not, so get rid of them I say! All those cpu cycles. robbing resources from the DAW!

Many thanks to garyB for these tweaks, the guys a genius and this machine is far quicker and more reliable since!
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Dave » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:29 pm

I'll just add an observation here for any Windows 7 system tweakers looking to optimise their machine. In trying to debug a plugin problem I'm having related to the registry I came across a Microsoft tool I'd never used before called performance monitor (I understand it replaced the old region tool used in Xp). It's downloadable for free from Microsoft. What it does is tracks all system activity in real time including registry calls so you can get an idea of what is using your system resources. It creates loads of tracking data so you need to use its filters to get to detail but I found it extremely interesting as it gave me a better insight into what is going on.
Might be of use to some.

Cheers
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby bugishcompany » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:48 am

FABIO:

Do you know if Steinberg is trying to implement a "bridge" in ASIO-Guard for audio processing on CUDA enabled graphic cards?

This could explain why graphics performance seems so linked to plugin performance in version 7.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby sonicassault » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:57 am

Have the same issues with CPU spikes. On different VSTs. Mostly if D16 Group Plugins are inside my projects.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby meta-redundant » Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:15 am

Thought I would share some of my own recent (and highly insane) tests!

I was getting weird spikes on a brand new Xeon workstation build. My older 2008 computer ran 7.5 fine. I noticed that it was centered primarily around locating the cursor in the project - clicking here, clicking there. After further experimentation, I realized it was caused by doing anything mouse-heavy. So, I did the following:

--Disabled my high-end Radeon GPU.
--Reverted to the on-board Intel integrated graphics.
--UNINSTALLED the Intel graphics driver, and used the generic Microsoft (!) driver (weird, but keep reading...)
--I went to the Troubleshooting tab of the graphics adapter, clicked the "Change Settings..." button, and moved the "Hardware Acceleration" slider one notch to the left (read about trying this in an old Nuendo forum post). For further info see http://www.wikihow.com/Turn-off-Hardware-Acceleration. I only moved it ONE notch, not all the way off!

Guess what: all CPU spike problems completely disappeared.

For confirmation, I then updated the generic driver to use the latest Intel build, and all the problems reappeared. In my case it is definitely related to the graphics rendering -- and what's weird is that using generic (software) rendering is an improvement!

The problem is that you can't just move this slider and forget about it, because the Change Settings... --> Hardware Acceleration slider is only available when using the generic Microsoft driver -- the entire "Change Settings" button is greyed out when using any vendor-specific drivers :(

FWIW, moving the slider one notch to the left disables "cursor and bitmap accelerations."

Try it yourself and see if the same thing happens for you! If so, this is definitely worth pursuing from a Support perspective.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby mroekalea » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:54 am

Do you know if Steinberg is trying to implement a "bridge" in ASIO-Guard for audio processing on CUDA enabled graphic cards?


Not any change in my opinion, the plugins in question al have to be re-programmed to use CUDA cores. From what I have heard is that cuda is suitable for video rendering fx, not so for relatime audio fx.

To my knowledge only a few plugins use CUDA cores, namely LiquidSonic and Nebula see: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/753520-cuda-opencl-daws-plugins.html
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Tanant » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:23 am

This whole 'leave Aero enabled' business is absolute garbage. No major software vendor recommends leaving it on to 'let the GPU do it's work' but certain forum members need to harp on and on about it. It doesn't make a shred of difference on my system with plugins that use opengl, and while that isn't some kind of scientific test it should be lesson enough to not take forum members advice over software developers advice, no matter how adamant they are.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby mroekalea » Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:36 am

This whole 'leave Aero enabled' business is absolute garbage.


In windows 8 there is no Aero to my knowledge. So i guess it is abandoned by microsoft.
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Freddie H » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:28 am

Tanant wrote:This whole 'leave Aero enabled' business is absolute garbage. No major software vendor recommends leaving it on to 'let the GPU do it's work' but certain forum members need to harp on and on about it. It doesn't make a shred of difference on my system with plugins that use opengl, and while that isn't some kind of scientific test it should be lesson enough to not take forum members advice over software developers advice, no matter how adamant they are.


Obviously you have no clue what you talking about. :lol:

An other problem is that "people that has no real knowledge" keep doing other XP tweaks on these new system that don't apply on these systems. Of course they found it on bad tweaks sites on the internet or they just continue use the same tweaks like as it were XP32. To make even worse, sometimes "3part" manufactures even recommend these "absolute tweaks" that only work XP32 to apply on Windows 7 and Windows 8, even though they have no real knowledge about this.

In the end, all this cause and make the users keep get other problems because of that.
9 of 10 its all come down to s-hit behind the wheels causing all theses problems.

By the way, what major serious vendors recommend you to disabling it? The answer on that one is =none.


Best Regards
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Re: 7.5 Bug: VST performance peak?

Postby Freddie H » Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:31 am

mroekalea wrote:
This whole 'leave Aero enabled' business is absolute garbage.


In windows 8 there is no Aero to my knowledge. So i guess it is abandoned by microsoft.



No, AERO is ON. Microsoft has not abandoned it.
It just look different compare to Windows 7 AERO Glass.



Best Regards
Freddie
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