Plugin Problems in C7.5

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Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Dave » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:48 am

I have two distinct plugin problems since installing Cubase 7.5 which do not manifest themselves in Cubase 6.5 or 7.06.
As far as I can tell these plugins are as VST2.4 level.

The first is IKM (IK Multimedia) Amplitube3. The plugin sits in my VSTPlugin directory which sits on my F: drive therefore separate from the default plugin location which Cubase creates. I link the plugin directory to Cubase via the Plugin manager. When all the plugins are scanned to create the .xml preference files which Cubase uses to index the available plugins, Amplitube3 get automatically placed in the VST2xblacklist Cubase.xml file, so wont be accessible in Cubase.

So first question is how do I get Cubase 7.5 to recognise it?

The second is the IKM CSR reverb plugin. This one doesn't get blacklisted but gives me an error window which reports a registry error (see attachment) and prompts me to re-install(which doesn't do any good). The strange thing is the plugin works fine in Cubase 7.06 and earlier which are using the same VSTPlugin directory. So there's something specific to C7.5 here in how it parses the plugins.

I have deleted the three preference files VST2xblacklist Cubase.xml, VST2xPlugins Cubase.xml, and VSTPluginfoV2.xml and allowed Cubase 7.5 to recreate these but no success with that.

Anyone got any idea what Cubase 7.5 will be checking for in the Win7 registry which it can't find?

The registry is the same for both Cubase 7.5 and Cubase 7.06 so this is very odd.

If anyone who is using this plugin with Cubase 7.5 could give me some feedback to confirm it works it would be a start.

Cheers
Dave
Attachments
Plugin-Error-C7-5.jpg
Cubase 7.5 Error message
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby GargoyleStudio » Thu Jan 30, 2014 5:50 pm

You could try downloading a free VST host to see if that loads and runs the two plugins. If so then you can push the blame further towards Cubase, maybe their support line will be best then. If not then you can go towards IKM support.

Mike.
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Dave » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:46 am

It's odd that everything is fine in Cubase 7.06 but not 7.5. This has to be related to a change in processing in 7.5 as nothing else has been changed on the system. I have C7.06 and C7.5 running on the same machine and they both acesss the same plugin directory and run under the same Win7 registry.

Cheers
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby CWS » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:05 am

Hi Dave,
Sorry to hear the trouble you are having with IKM products. I can confirm that I am running Amplitube 3 in Cb 7.5 with no problems. The only thing I can think of is to uninstall Amplitube 3 and reinstall it. I would let it intsall into the default directory and see if that solves your problem. I do not have IKM's reverb plugin so I can't comment on that one. Good luck !
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby mozizo » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:20 am

Ho Man !!
i left the pic u attached with the error and came back after an hour and thought: what the hack happened now to my cubase.. until i realized it was only the picture opened full screen :lol:

anyway.. i to have no problems with IK products and C 7.5 64bit
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby CWS » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:22 am

mozizo,
That was a good one ! :-)
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Plasuma » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:21 pm

Hey Dave. It's a dumb and simple thing, but sometimes a magic bullet: have you tried running C7.5 with admin privileges and disabling UAC?

Check your privilege.png
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Just doing that, I've managed to slim down the causes of crashes and misbehavior to just one plug-in that inexplicably works fine in 7.06, but not 7.5. Here's to hoping it's that simple for you.
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby MaXxive » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:54 pm

I too can confirm that Amplitube 3 and CSR works perfectly under Cubase 7.5. So it must be something else.

What I'm worried about, is that you 'point your plugin manager to your D-drive, where you've installed Amplitube'.

Normally, you install Amplitube and then ONLY the VST is placed in a VST folder. Your Cubase already has that in it's preferences so it should come up automatic. Hearing your story makes me worried it's a VST mess on your system maybe, hehe :)
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Dave » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:02 pm

Thanks for replies. Yes am running C7.5 with admin privileges. This is all very odd as C7.06 runs them ok, and is accessing everything in the same location as C7.5. I did the reinstall thing, but can't do it too many times as there's a licence security count on the Ikm stuff so that would lead me into another thing to resolve.

I wonder what C7.5 does differently to C7.06 in loading plugins? From the error message it appears to be something it can't find in the registry.

Wonder if anyone using on win 7 could search their registry and give me info on what registry keys they find for IK multimedia. I could then compare to see if those keys are intact on my system.

Cheers
Dave
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Plasuma » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:56 pm

I have IK's CSR, but not installed. I'll do that when I get the chance and post what the registry looks like here.
I'd export a key for you to use to compare, but I dunno if Steiny would allow that file type or a zip with that in there here on the forums.
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Makumbaria » Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:38 am

I will check my registry later ( I am using Amplitube 3 with Cubase 7.0.6 and 7.5 without issues).
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Makumbaria » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:29 am

I have various keys from Ik Multimedia.

Here I can see Amplitube 3 correctly showing my VST path and VST64 path:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\IK Multimedia

Here is more keys:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\IK Multimedia
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\IK Multimedia
Last edited by Makumbaria on Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Dave » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:37 am

Thanks for feedback.

Well I've just checked these base keys and they all exist in my registry, so if it's the registry it got to be a sub key or some other key not listed. I also find a key HKLM Software VPA which appears to link to Ikm plugins. I guess this is related to 32bit version as I see off the web that someone refers to a key HKLM Software Wow6432node VPA which related to 64 bit processing. I don't have this key but I do have the Wow6432node base key.

I'm not sure that should be relevant as I understand these keys would relate to 64 bit processing and I'm only 32bit. However a coder catering for both might check for these keys 64 bit keys first and assuming correct code switch to the 32bit keys. An error in code here may prevent the switch to the 32bit.

However looking at percentages I would think other 32bit users would be shouting if this was the coding failure.
That's assuming there are others users still on win7 32bit only systems using these plugs with C7.5.

Do you have this wow6432node VPA key?

It looks like this one is going to difficult to crack without Steinberg coders input as to what was changed between 7.06 and 7.5 regarding plugin processing, and that I suspect they will not be willing to divulge. I may get lucky in that something in forthcoming the C7.5 update fixes it.

Cheers
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby MaXxive » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:43 am

Could you please tell us what's in your 'plug in folder settings' ? Which folders are there?
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Makumbaria » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:45 am

Dave wrote:

Do you have this wow6432node VPA key?


Could you tell me the complete name of the key?

Your Cubase 7.5 was installed as a complete install or as an upgrade? I installed mine as an upgrade, and all configuration (presets, templates, preferences, recent files list, and so on) was automatically captured from Cubase 7.0.6. When I opened Cubase 7.5 for the first time everything was already there.
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Dave » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:27 am

The key name was referred to as HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\VPA.

I believe I installed from Upgrade but kept my C7.06 intact. (This looks like a good move at this point)
Regards the plugin folder query the path from MaXxive, I used is F:\vstplugins-1\IKM. All other plugs read Ok from here, I suppose I could try changing the IKM folder name, to see if there's any impact. Why do you ask Maxxive?

Cheers
Dave
Last edited by Dave on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Dave » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:31 am

I've just found a Microsoft tool which allows you to track all system activity in real time including all registry calls. It's very comprehensive and Ill need some time to get my head around it but I'm amazed on initial view at just how many calls C7.5 makes to the registry. This may give me a fighting chance of a solution if I can work out what to filter.

Cheers
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Makumbaria » Sat Feb 01, 2014 3:38 pm

Dave wrote:The key name was referred to as HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\VPA.


I have those keys, but only regarding Miroslav and Sampletank, not Amplitube 3.

Did you installed Amplitube 3 as 64 bits too?
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Dave » Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:35 pm

Ok thanks. No my machine here is all win7 32bit only. These keys shouldn't matter but I've read that they may exist on a 32bit machine because of the way Microsoft migrated to 64bit.

Cheers
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby mroekalea » Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:25 pm

My best bet is that you should disable UAC and de-install en re-install again, also make sure that the account you use has administrator privileges, when UAC is active the installation can become corrupted and only half functional.

I also find that many plugin installers mixup the 32 / 64 bit installer paths and also VST2 / VST3 installation paths.
I have done some installation where I first install the 32 bit plugs then in a second go the 64 bits one, or when all is installed together I remove the 32 bit dlls by hand.
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Dave » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:59 pm

Thanks for observations. In this case plugs have worked fine and still work fine in Cubase 7.06. It only on the subsequent install of C7.5 that the problems arise and only on these Ikm plugins. So I'm left with what is that C7.5 is trying to do when loading the plugins that C 7.06 doesn't. The error message reports this as a registry issue so C7.5 doesn't like what it finds whereas C7.06 has no issues? The plugin loading process must have some changed code in C7.5.
I'm exploring windows security but my logic tells me there's no reason for C7.06 and C7.5 would work differently in this respect.
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Dave » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:14 pm

Just completed some testing using the free Microsoft performance monitor tool which tracks system activity in real time including registry calls. I ran it and monitored the loading of the CSR reverb as a single plug on a empty project with a single audio track. I ran both C7.06 and C7.5 and the error seems to occur in the parsing of the registry key when the plugin is loaded. This is HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\IK Multimedia which is where all the key data sits for the plugin. This of course assumes as a non programming expert I'm reading the data right (and there is a lot of it)

C7.06 completed this ok but C7.5 didn''t. No idea why. This looks very much that the problem is in the interaction between the reg values and the C7.5 code. Now if others have this working in Win7 32bit I'm assuming this may indicate some code corruption in C7.5 on my box so the solution may be a new download and reinstall of of C7.5. I might just try swapping the .exe file, if possible, as a test before a complete reinstall. I'll wait for the C7.5.1 patch first which I understand is out next week to see if that fixes it as I assume that will do something to the .exe file.

This is fun...:-(

Cheers
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Marsman » Sun Feb 02, 2014 1:03 pm

Dave wrote:C7.06 completed this ok but C7.5 didn''t. No idea why.

I might just try swapping the .exe file



I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid you can't do that.

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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby Dave » Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:12 pm

Why not Hal?

Cheers
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Re: Plugin Problems in C7.5

Postby silhouette » Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:13 pm

Dave I guess you have contacted IK support?
I have Amplitude 3 running fine on my computer. The Amplitude folder is in program files whilst the data folder has installed in My Documents with the dll in the Steinberg VST folder.I don't use this computer for anything other than music so I let Amplitude stay in My Docs. It somehow seems that you have got a situation where the link to C7.5 has been broken. Have you checked that the folders, locations and paths are exactly the same for 7.06 and 7.5. Are you using 64 or 32 bit? Have you got a 64 bit dll in a 32 bit environment or vice versa.
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