[new song] Live without

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[new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:12 pm

Hi..someone mentioned something about more info on song uploads, so....

All sounds except the guitars are Nexus (orchestral expansion), the guitars are Real guitar, bass is Broomstick bass,
Vox is through the mic and pre that is in my sig..no further treatment. cept reverb, which is Lexicon.
drums are Jamstix

not mastered with anything.

gotta thank Sherz for his tech advice regarding getting a clear Vox..it's definitely worked, I owe him a pint!!
If you take the time to listen...I thank you.
It's ended up a bit longer than I normally like so my apologies.......Kevin

https://soundcloud.com/knmac/livewithout
Last edited by shadowfax on Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:23 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Bane » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:38 pm

Wow Kevin, really digging the groove and the lyrics keep getting more and more profound, really like it. So tired of conventional love songs I could throw up. The voice seemed to sound different in a good way, but it also felt a tad more buried than normal. You have a nice voice, so don't be afraid to put it up front. ;)

The real killer for me on this one, not sure if it was by design, is the drumkit, particularly the kick drum. The kick was pretty annoying on my system, maybe worth a try to hook this groove up with EZDrummer or whatever else you may have. Could also switch off your sub and see what you hear, this all may be by design and that's okay too.
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:55 pm

So do you mean the kick drum on the first drums ( the drum loop) or the kick drum when the other drums come in, voice sounds different (better i hope) after the advice from sherz...reckon I was over compressing on the way in..amongst other things.
if you want me to have another go at the Vox on your track pm me...reckon it would sound so much better now I'm an "expert" :lol:

thanks for listening...Kevin
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Bane » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:56 pm

It's the real drums that come in after a minute, I'd personally try to find different settings or knock the dust off Superior. The vocals are definitely different in a good way, again I'd just crank them up so we can hear what you are saying. No need to reperform the old song, what 's done is done and new projects are on the way. But yes you are an expert. ;)
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Strophoid » Thu Feb 13, 2014 1:02 pm

Nice track, I really like it! Good writing and a very nice atmosphere.
I think Bane means the drumloop and I tend to agree with him. I see what you are trying to do with it and a basic but very big drumsound can work really well, but the current loop you are using doesn't really do it for me. (the real drums sound very nice, don't touch them!) The distorted effect on the loop is what makes it less fitting in my opinion. How about you try a power-rock type of kick and snare for that big sound, maybe add a slight overdose of reverb on it if it's still not big enough.

Again though, I really like the track otherwise, I don't think it's too long at all.
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Bane » Thu Feb 13, 2014 2:32 pm

Ok yeah maybe it is the loop. The hihats and cymbals do sound great, though I don't really hear a normal kick/snare anywhere throughout the song.

I've been able to pull off that fat snare sound with EZDrummer, particularly the Slingerland damped is a very good one. You can use the Transient Designer in the new channel strip to add attack and release. Properly implemented reverb of course does help, as does EQ to bring out the Whack.
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:28 pm

Thanks for the comments strophoid and bane, loathe as I am to go back to a track I will give this one a look at..cheers, Kevin
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Thu Feb 13, 2014 6:58 pm

So I've put a track up with alternative drums...Kevin
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Strophoid » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:35 pm

Much better in my opinion! I reckon they could be a bit louder/bigger but at least to me it sounds more natural and fitting to the track!
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Bane » Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:07 pm

I concur, they are no longer distracting.
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:20 am

Ok guy's..thanks..tried to make the new drums bigger but they just seemed to get in the way of everything else, as I'm sure your both aware my production skills leave a lot to be desired..will take the other one down..thanks again...Kevin
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Strophoid » Fri Feb 14, 2014 11:37 am

As long as you're happy with it it's all good mate ;)
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:09 pm

Yeah..happy, for me , one of the most important things about music is that other people like it..not just the composer.
plus when it comes to production and arrangement a lot of people know better than me...so I listen,

cheers, Kevin
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby kzarider » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:01 pm

Great track, like said early the mix could use some work but all of our mixes could lol. Great playing and your vocals are very clear and warm sounding. I would like to hear the up 2 or 3db but that is me.
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:10 pm

kzarider wrote:Great track, like said early the mix could use some work but all of our mixes could lol. Great playing and your vocals are very clear and warm sounding. I would like to hear the up 2 or 3db but that is me.


thanks Kenny, vocal improvement is down to advice from sherz
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Sherz » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:00 am

Another nice song Kevin! You're certainly quite consistent in that regard. :) You could probably just about copy 'n' paste from my previous posts on your past songs with regard to my thoughts on your mix etc. ;) but overall not bad. I think this one is perhaps a little too awash with reverbs and I know you've already made several adjustments, and while I also note you have taken a somewhat different approach to your vocal mix ;) I still think it could still probably be a little more 'up close and personal'.

As for drum sounds... something I always struggle with I must admit but for ballady stuff I'm usually erring more toward fatter warmer sounds - soft kick and a more rounded snare but there are no rules and it just one of those things were you invariably end up auditioning countless combos until you're completely confused and no longer have any idea what sounds suitable or not!

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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:49 am

The vocal sound IMHO is better after taking your advice regarding compression on the way in and distance from mic etc...I'm very pleased with the outcome, struggled with the drums a lot though, originally had a big slightly distorted loop but after some advice from the guys changed it to more natural sounding drums but I always have a problem getting a big snare sound..always seems to kill everything else..

thanks for looking in Ian...Kevin
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Jonathan5456 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:43 am

I know *knuf* all about drum sounds so not gonna comment on those. ;D In terms of arrangement though, at 1:30 it could really have more instruments introduced to fill up the harmony vertically and the space left to right and when the section repeats is does have that and I quite like those synthy string staccato stabs but perhaps have that at 1:30 also and then a variation/expansion of it at the repeat just to further differentiate the B from the A section.

I like the addition of the guitar in the repeat. Did you transpose anything at all? Because the bass notes at around the 3:30 mark and onward sound like they are moving at the correct intervals, but in a key some (or just one) semitone(s) from the rest.

Overall the mix seems to sound decent, just a little thin in terms of texture to me at some places. I recall in the first songs that I listened to I thought the reverb was making things sound rather muddy and unclear but it sounds clear enough here and I don't think it's too much, but I am used to having rather insane amounts on my own stuff so who knows ;D Keep up the progression Kevin and well done.
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Early21 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:24 am

Hi Kevin, singing great, as always. I'll be honest, I am not very happy with the drums when they come in at 1:08. They aren't working. Just a simple kick and a snare. Also, there are real problems in the bass, starting at 2:47, all the way through until 4:14. Wrong notes. You need to check it out.

The song itself presents interesting chord changes, and that's probably more important than the mix comments I make. I think it's great if you stretch your harmonic vocabulary.

The overall mix is too quiet. I listened to Sherz's mix of your earlier song, and although I wasn't sure what I liked better (which was why I didn't comment despite listening about 10 times), Ian certainly got loudness right. By no means am I in favor of escalating loudness wars, but you need to get to the minimum, and Ian obviously knows how to do that. You have Ozone per your signature, so you have all the tools you need!
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:23 am

Hi, jonathan, never transposed anything but seems that your comments regarding the bass are on the money because early21 also mentions a problem with the bass, your comments regarding the arrangement are valid also..seems production and arrangement are my week spots, pretty bad when you think about it..trying to write songs but can't arrange and can't produce..what!! glad you think it's a bit more clear anyway...

Hi early21..again..your right about the bass, I always have trouble with the bass..must be tone deaf or summat!!
whenever I try to use Ozone for the final mix it just seems to sound worse so I left it as is :? mistake it seems....and yeah, the drums, what can I say :oops: ....thats where production skills really come into their own..but not for me, there is a different version on my Bandcamp page (drumwise) if you listened to that I would apreciate your feedback..

cheers, guys.......Kevin
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Early21 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:24 am

Hi Kevin, I'm listening to the latest Soundcloud version, I think. You mentioned a bandcamp version, but I didn't see a link. Got your PM too. The drums on this version sound a lot better, I think. I probably wouldn't make a remark on it. You could continue to experiment with it. The bass still has wrong notes to my ears in the same section; you should check it carefully. Don't ever get me wrong; your stuff is great, so I just want to help.

For the loudness point, certainly Ian can help, he knows how to use those tools. I got carried away and wrote a reply to a thread on mastering which would encapsulate all the advice I could give, which is amateur at best. That is here: viewtopic.php?f=198&t=55816&start=25

I'm not so comfortable posing as an expert. But I don't mind sharing what I've learned.

Keep them coming. And keep supplying those lovely avatar pictures!
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:19 am

Thanks early21..would never get you wrong, it's the comments from yourself and others on this forum that's got me this far, thanks for taking the time to bother...will take a look at that thread..regarding the avatar pics...will do..........Kevin
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Bane » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:48 pm

Hey Kevin,

I think you're onto something with this new version, the drum licks sound much improved. I do think that the drum samples should be more aggressive but it's always a matter of taste.
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby shadowfax » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:13 pm

Bane wrote:Hey Kevin,

I think you're onto something with this new version, the drum licks sound much improved. I do think that the drum samples should be more aggressive but it's always a matter of taste.



would love to get em more aggressive and bigger but if I do they drown out the song..just aint got the skills mate... :( cheers, Kevin
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Re: [new song] Live without

Postby Jonathan5456 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:56 pm

Izotope and some other independent producers have some good videos/tutorials on Youtube for this. Trash 2 is one of the only plugins I own and I learned how to make my percussion tracks sound bigger, crisper and punchier without EQing which just made them sound 'boomy' and 'muddy' and without simply raising the volume just from watching the Trash 2 tutorials on the Izotope Youtube channel even though my percussion is mainly ethnic drums and the video was with a modern drum kit the same principles applied near enough. The same principles could be applied to other plugins/products of the same/similar type too.
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