WAR

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WAR

Postby Sherz » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:05 am

An experimental instrumental W.I.P.built on old material from 2004:

WAR
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Re: WAR

Postby shadowfax » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:27 am

Awesome. Atmospheric and of course...apocalyptic!!! just loved the first 60 seconds, don't think I'll ever get to your level mate.

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Re: WAR

Postby Strophoid » Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:15 pm

Amazing mix in the intro, great atmosphere and space!
Rest of the song sounds spot on too, really nice. I feel the drums are slightly too laid back, try nudging the kick and snare forward just a little bit in time, they feel a tad late especially at the start of the song.

Outtro is excellent too. If I'm honest I feel the sound effects you're using (screaming/crying/sirens etc) don't really fit. There's not enough of them to convey the total mayhem you would expect during some big disaster, they sound a bit fake when you use them isolated like this. I hope that makes sense ;). Big respect for the mix and writing though!
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Re: WAR

Postby polgara » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:17 am

very nice ,some great imagination at work here ,all the instruments sound great and the lead guitar reminded me of very early Dave Gilmour . the only thing i don`t like about "war" theme things is - type casting who the enemy is and by having the islamic background noise going off it`s obvious who you think the enemy is in this piece. Banks, Corrupt Dictators who stay in power too long and Royal Familys are the real enemys,i reckon.
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Re: WAR

Postby shadowfax » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:40 am

Agree with banks and corrupt dictators but for the life of me I can't think of a royal family that sends (or sent) 10 year old suicide bombers to blow people up, like it or not, at this moment in time the threat to western civilization is from Islam (in the crude blowing people up for religious reasons sense) so in the same way that an Islamic person might see a western person as the enemy then it's reasonable for a western person to see an Islamic person as the enemy...perfectly reasonable my friend...
I mean nothing personal by this, it's just an interesting topic that you brought up...

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Re: WAR

Postby polgara » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:54 pm

how did royalty get there in the first place..... brute force ,murder. look at N.Korea ,if that dictatorship remains ,it could possibly become a royal family. but i doubt it nowadays.
i think it must be quite frightening for normal peace loving people when their belief is deemed as wrong and depicted as the enemy in computer games. which is really the fault of psychotic radicals ,who exist in all religions. brain wash and brain washed
anyway this is a black hole subject. give me steinbergs magneto any day
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Re: WAR

Postby Bane » Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:40 pm

Aw darn after reading the comments I was expecting some wicked death metal number. :lol: 8-)

No really this one is really interesting, though I do rather agree with Strophoid's comment on the drums. Very contemplative piece and anything but straightforward, digging the groove in the middle there.

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Re: WAR

Postby Early21 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:08 am

Cool soundscape. Are you really David Gilmore posing as Ian?
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Re: WAR

Postby Jonathan5456 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:39 am

About the Music

I liked the acoustic guitars at the beginning and end sections, the panning is interesting and works nicely. But when the drums entered I was expecting a main melody to take over the structure, something for my ears to grab a hold of and follow. The lead guitar part didn't really feel like it was that. Not everyone needs a strong melody to hold their interest, but I definitely do so I couldn't get into it overall. The lead guitar part could also be played with cleaner notes (referring to muting technique, not the amp settings) and tighter vibrato. It's hard to find fault with the mix though. The production gives it a pleasing sound and overall a pretty cool idea.

Edit: The following is just to clear up some misconceptions and inaccuracies, but I'm trying to keep it as brief as possible as I've already spent ten minutes on this post as it is;- (End Edit.)

polgara wrote:type casting who the enemy is and by having the islamic background noise going off it`s obvious who you think the enemy is in this piece.


That is simply how you interpret the subtle Arabic instrument/sounds. The fact is our guys and gals have been over there in the army. Perhaps Sherz wrote the piece thinking of someone he knows, or even just out of compassion for those that get sent there. Who knows? Not you nor myself. Until Sherz actually says his intent then all you're doing is speculating and jumping to conclusions.

I think the very first thing to say is that you mean Arabic background noise, not islamic. Islam is not a race nor a country (just like how christianity is not a race nor a country,) this is a common misconception. Islamic states are simply countries which have laws based on and enforced by their religious beliefs. Atheists find it tough to 'come out' as being an atheist in America because of how they will be treat. This is absolutely nothing compared to the punishments under law in islamic states. The UK is now taking in atheists from Arabic countries because they know if they come out as not being religious they will probably end up dead or imprisoned. Apostasy carries the death penalty and it is enforced.

Islam, along with other religions most certainly are the enemy of logic and reason. Faith, by pure default of its position that the things written in their holy books must never be questioned and must never be criticized are most certainly the enemy of logic and reason. I've never known even one society that has suffered because the people became too reasonable. Whereas under laws dictated by islam a Turkish pianist can be imprisoned for simply saying he thinks religion is just fiction. You could try to argue that religion, most especially islam, is not our enemy but I could refute any argument you give in favour of.

Now, you may think all religions are equal but the statistical fact is they are not. I'd like to leave one quote from authour, philosopher and academic Sam Harris to think about;- 'If the core beliefs of a religion are truly non-violent, then it follows that the more engrossed and intensely religious one becomes the less violent one becomes.' Ask yourself why we don't see Buddhist or Jainist suicide bombers. Especially Jainists, their entire belief is based upon not harming even the smallest bug. So the more deranged with their religion they become, the less anyone has to worry about them being violent.

I think what I've said is enough to encourage critical thinking so I shall leave those things to think about. But I must forewarn you that I am somewhat of an academic on these subjects myself, so I am fully prepared with facts and citations to refute any claims in favour of religion/theocracy over secularism. :P Though I'd do that in a private message as this has already become rather derailed to begin with.
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Re: WAR

Postby polgara » Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:36 pm

i think we all know what springs to mind (there are lots)when you hear the background Arabic sounds regardless of Sherz`z intention . all i am trying to say is ,the human impact on every day normal people who would not hurt a fly ,because they are of a particular religion and are seen as the enemy.it must be damaging for young kids .i think it`s irresponsible and dangerous turning them into stereo types in computer games soundtracks etc ,aliens are always the safest bet.
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Re: WAR

Postby Jonathan5456 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:14 pm

There is really no good way to respond keeping things brief otherwise any response would just look vague and hollow in the reasoning behind it and there isn't much point to say anything at all if there isn't solid logic behind it. So if you cba I don't mind you not reading this. ;D But it's here as a response anyway.

The main point of my argument is this;-

Belief in something that no human can ever prove does not deserve some special treatment or respect nor does it deserve people trying to justify religion as being a good thing for humanity based upon the fact that there are peace-loving people that are religious. They could still be peace-loving people without religion, so to me using peace-loving people as an example to justify religion is a completely invalid argument that I do not accept. (It's the same, and rightly so, as you not accepting the condemnation of religion based upon a minority of violent psychotics.) I'll say it time and time again that religion, by its default position, is the enemy of logic and reason. No society has ever suffered because its people became too reasonable.

If no one were religious then I would absolutely agree with you that type-casting others as enemies is a despicable thing to do. But right now when deeply religious people are the ones in power over a powerless populace then it is a reality that we, and the middle-east, needs to accept because religion causes more harm to humanity than anything else.

Look at some states in the United States, proposing bills that will allow 'creation' to be taught as an equal to the theory of evolution or proposing bills that will allow police, doctors, businesses etc to deny service to homosexuals and these come from deeply religious republicans. My point is that opposing religion is a much more important thing than videogames merely type-casting people of a certain religion as enemies which you seem to think is a big problem; but there are more children that grow up being taught religious beliefs that hate homosexuals and people of other or no religion. So really, religion itself is a much more harmful thing to humanity.

Aliens are a safe bet, but they'd probably have came to our planet to wipe us out due to their religious belief that if they wipe out enough planets they will get to paradise and get to sleep with dozens of virgins. ;)
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Re: WAR

Postby polgara » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:04 am

Jonathan5456 wrote:There is really no good way to respond keeping things brief otherwise any response would just look vague and hollow in the reasoning behind it and there isn't much point to say anything at all if there isn't solid logic behind it. So if you cba I don't mind you not reading this. ;D But it's here as a response anyway.

The main point of my argument is this;-

Belief in something that no human can ever prove does not deserve some special treatment or respect nor does it deserve people trying to justify religion as being a good thing for humanity based upon the fact that there are peace-loving people that are religious. They could still be peace-loving people without religion, so to me using peace-loving people as an example to justify religion is a completely invalid argument that I do not accept. (It's the same, and rightly so, as you not accepting the condemnation of religion based upon a minority of violent psychotics.) I'll say it time and time again that religion, by its default position, is the enemy of logic and reason. No society has ever suffered because its people became too reasonable.

If no one were religious then I would absolutely agree with you that type-casting others as enemies is a despicable thing to do. But right now when deeply religious people are the ones in power over a powerless populace then it is a reality that we, and the middle-east, needs to accept because religion causes more harm to humanity than anything else.

Look at some states in the United States, proposing bills that will allow 'creation' to be taught as an equal to the theory of evolution or proposing bills that will allow police, doctors, businesses etc to deny service to homosexuals and these come from deeply religious republicans. My point is that opposing religion is a much more important thing than videogames merely type-casting people of a certain religion as enemies which you seem to think is a big problem; but there are more children that grow up being taught religious beliefs that hate homosexuals and people of other or no religion. So really, religion itself is a much more harmful thing to humanity.

Aliens are a safe bet, but they'd probably have came to our planet to wipe us out due to their religious belief that if they wipe out enough planets they will get to paradise and get to sleep with dozens of virgins. ;)
i thought you had finished on this subject publicly. there`s will power. ok take religion out of the equation cause as you say it`s more trouble than it`s worth.All i`m concerned about is innocence and people being caught up in the middle who do not deserve to be harmed in any way, psychologically or physically just because they are unfortunate enough to live in an area which is in the middle of some kind of dispute with another country. i`m concerned for innocent people of those areas been aware that they are being seen as the enemy of the rest of the world and how this might damage them psychologically,if you lived in those areas and you had children who were seeing things on the internet that made them feel like they belonged to a race who were depicted as the bad guys in video games soundtracks etc ,you would want to protect them naturally.
by the way Jonathan never mind the virgins,have you ever pulled a girl on earth.
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Re: WAR

Postby Jonathan5456 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:20 pm

polgara wrote:by the way Jonathan never mind the virgins,have you ever pulled a girl on earth.


Resorting to a failure of an attempt at a cheap and personal insult which makes it obvious you've realized you're out of your depth on the intellectual field of debate with your misuse of terms and words and lack of evidence behind claims.

polgara wrote:i thought you had finished on this subject publicly.


You've gone and leaped to an absurd conclusion and painted Sherz as some kind of racist, propaganda-spewing music machine based on absolutely nothing at all other than your already existing personal (and misinformed) feelings on certain things. I'm all for freedom of speech, but you have no grounds to accuse someone of such a thing.

polgara wrote:ok take religion out of the equation cause as you say it`s more trouble than it`s worth.


In real politics and real world problem solving you cannot simply take things out of equations to give yourself an easy solution or to prove your point.

polgara wrote:if you lived in those areas and you had children who were seeing things on the internet that made them feel like they belonged to a race who were depicted as the bad guys in video games soundtracks etc ,you would want to protect them naturally.


The research that has been done into the affects of videogames on children shows that they can and do see them as fantasy which shoots down your entire argument. There is still the news, media and internet, so you'd have to shield and shelter children from many things which are simply the truth such as faith being the enemy of logic and reason. I mean, we have the internet and search engines these days so there is absolutely zero excuse for you not to have done your research.

I urge you to research things before you get so emotionally behind them, like this anti-videogame crusade you seem to be on; to refrain from resorting to cheap and personal insults and to not leap to conclusions calling someone out as a racist until you have facts. I'd say what I said in the defense of any stranger, but from my experience with Sherz on the forum he seems to be a kind and thoughtful individual and one whom I respect.

Cheers.
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Re: WAR

Postby Sherz » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:57 am

Crikey... wasn't expecting this one to get political... though in hindsight... I guess the potential was certainly there!

I've been a bit slow getting back to this... was undergoing surgery a week ago today, and am now doing that miserable, painful and generally uncomfortable post-op thing! :|

This is part of a personal, somewhat self-indulgent project, and out of that context this track is obviously subject to much speculation about it's intent and my personal political views. Just to clarify... the presence and inclusion of Arabic sounds are really there to reflect the ambiance of where the most significant politically-motivated wars in recent times have been fought, which just so happens to be the Middle East. What's interesting for me browsing through the comments, that out-of-context, some have clearly misinterpreted the presence of 'Arabic ambience' to somehow imply they are being stereotyped and portrayed here as the enemy. On the contrary. The intent in that regard it was one more to do with the innocents caught in the crossfire that have unwittingly become victims, and indeed a lyric in another song talks about that very thing.


Thanks for the feedback regarding mix and elements of the arrangement etc. I was never happy with the drums to be honest, I think I just got lazy, and they may well be the first thing I revisit and rethink. Other things mentioned, well I guess some falls under that general banner of 'personal taste and preference' as is often highlighted by polarized opinions! But at the end of the day like most, I'll ultimately have to make my own judgement call. But regardless, I've taken it all on board and will certainly give your thoughts due consideration for sure.

Thanks, appreciated 8-)
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Re: WAR

Postby polgara » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:31 am

Jonathan5456 wrote:

polgara wrote:i thought you had finished on this subject publicly.


You've gone and leaped to an absurd conclusion and painted Sherz as some kind of racist, propaganda-spewing music machine based on absolutely nothing at all other than your already existing personal (and misinformed) feelings on certain things. I'm all for freedom of speech, but you have no grounds to accuse someone of such a thing.
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Re: WAR

Postby kzarider » Fri Mar 14, 2014 3:42 pm

Well if the intent of the music was a great conversation on all subjects we avoid in daily face to face conversation that was accomplished. Therefore this qualifies as a great piece of art, and no one should have to be apologetic for stating their reactions, but we all know how sensitive this subject is...keep a cool head and share thoughts without judgement as all things in life are not intellectual some are beliefs.

A person that is pushed always pushes back, a person at peace steps back so the other can step forward

Well done playing and great mix, I will leave the criticism for others...Hope you stay healthy to, that's far more important than this :)
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